M
Mark Imbesi
Guest
Now THAT is what I'm talkin' about! That deserves it's own post. It will get lost here. Entitle it Berber Repair or something like. Simply awesome, John!
harryhides
Member
Great job John.
Like you, I'd have called that a level loop carpet rather than a Berber but Marc is an Installer dude from NY so what can I say?
That slight color difference could easily have been "fixed" with a little crayon work though I would not have "set" the color in that situation.
Like you, I'd have called that a level loop carpet rather than a Berber but Marc is an Installer dude from NY so what can I say?
That slight color difference could easily have been "fixed" with a little crayon work though I would not have "set" the color in that situation.
Harry Myers
Member
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-berber-carpet.htm Berber is just like what people refer to as sisal. It is truly misrepresented.
John Let me explain this . Not all times it is good to separate the secondary backing. In doing so it does make it weaker. That is the reason for your dipping. Think of it like this as your tearing or separating the latex is falling out making it weaker. If it were not for latex , Carpet would be as pliable as a sweater. Nice patch though. Also get a glue gun that is 100 watts. I don't know what that would be metric.
John Let me explain this . Not all times it is good to separate the secondary backing. In doing so it does make it weaker. That is the reason for your dipping. Think of it like this as your tearing or separating the latex is falling out making it weaker. If it were not for latex , Carpet would be as pliable as a sweater. Nice patch though. Also get a glue gun that is 100 watts. I don't know what that would be metric.
M
Mark Imbesi
Guest
That's Installer Dude from NJ...the South Philly side!
Harry Myers
Member
John another question . When I do a patch as you did. I will glue only the primary backing and secondary backing . You don't need to glue under it . By gluing only the primary and secondary backing it is strong enough to hold. Try it on a sample do as I say glue it and than tear it apart.
Jack May
That Kiwi
Marc, certainly a messed up beast as far as terminology goes!!!
Reading that though, I can see where both of our loose ideas have come from the original.
Harry, I was only gluing the two backings together. I didn't glue though the primary, although I imagine that a fair bit of the glue would have penetrated through to the underlay (pad) anyway.
As I was putting it in, I felt that the donor was sitting above the existing because of a lack of wear. I hadn't noticed the dip on site, I only noticed it when I down loaded the photos to the computer.
John
Reading that though, I can see where both of our loose ideas have come from the original.
Harry, I was only gluing the two backings together. I didn't glue though the primary, although I imagine that a fair bit of the glue would have penetrated through to the underlay (pad) anyway.
As I was putting it in, I felt that the donor was sitting above the existing because of a lack of wear. I hadn't noticed the dip on site, I only noticed it when I down loaded the photos to the computer.
John
Jack May
That Kiwi
Ok, I asked this same question on the Aussie forum as well and this is the reply I got.
John
***************************
Their rug making was far more detailed than we realise, incorporating very significant symbols into their design other than the 'bits of colour' associated with Berber in western society.
In relation to Berbers as we know them now, that is as carpet, it is loop or cut pile carpet with earthy coloured slubbings in the yarn, or loosely termed, blobs of colour throughout the yarn.
Or to quote Australian Standards 2454:2007 Terminology,
Berber
"The effect given by a mixture of earthy tones similar to those of naturally pigmented wools, in a flecked or mottled pattern. (See also Flecks) (Compare with Tweed)
Flecks
"The effect given by incorporating small fragments of differently coloured or toned yarn into the pile yarn, such as with Berber yarns or tweed yarns."
Tweed
"The effect given by incorporating flecks of various colours into a pile yarn similar to a Berber effect, except with colours other than earthy tones."
John
***************************
Their rug making was far more detailed than we realise, incorporating very significant symbols into their design other than the 'bits of colour' associated with Berber in western society.
In relation to Berbers as we know them now, that is as carpet, it is loop or cut pile carpet with earthy coloured slubbings in the yarn, or loosely termed, blobs of colour throughout the yarn.
Or to quote Australian Standards 2454:2007 Terminology,
Berber
"The effect given by a mixture of earthy tones similar to those of naturally pigmented wools, in a flecked or mottled pattern. (See also Flecks) (Compare with Tweed)
Flecks
"The effect given by incorporating small fragments of differently coloured or toned yarn into the pile yarn, such as with Berber yarns or tweed yarns."
Tweed
"The effect given by incorporating flecks of various colours into a pile yarn similar to a Berber effect, except with colours other than earthy tones."
Harry Myers
Member
http://justmorocco.wordpress.com/ http://www.wheatmark.com/merchant2/merc ... re_Code=BS I promise this is the correct answer to where Berber was originated.
Charlie Lyman
Supportive Member
why did you use the iron on the backing?
Jack May
That Kiwi
Just to remove the irregularities for a better fit.
John
John
Charlie Lyman
Supportive Member
thanks, I went back and now I understand what Steve was saying about heating up the edges for a better fit. Awesome job.
Harry Myers
Member
john try a sample of not grafting these goods. Apply your application As i spoke of . When taking the secondary off it is for , Just like Steve said manipulation . If the pattern matches fine . no problem see for your self. The best way to learn for anyone is trial and error . I have been installing for 25 years. I am still learning .
Harry Myers
Member
John I also see you use the word slubbing . Inconsistent yarn meaning differences. Most people in the US are dedicated to a synthetic fiber no slubbing. The yarn is consistent. Over the seas most of there products consist of wool. John like I are in the same market . I can understand his terminology. John you are a great craftsman. You are a inspiration keep up your good work. Thank You John
Jack May
That Kiwi
Whoa, hold on Harry, I'm not that good 
I'm quoting another guru in Aussie I'll have to add that to my vocabulary and see how it works...
But yeah, our markets seem similar and I have a thirst for learning and perfecting this type of skills.
John :roll:
I'm quoting another guru in Aussie
I'll have to add that to my vocabulary and see how it works...But yeah, our markets seem similar and I have a thirst for learning and perfecting this type of skills.
John :roll:
Harry Myers
Member
Let me understand this what irregularities are you making consistent . What was Steve Talking about .I think we need Steve to clarify the judgment. You are not melting any synthetic plastic edges. Godfrey Hirst is a jute backed product and jute back product only. Now I am confused. These products do not peel off the secondary and make it weaker than it already is. Why the latex is a better quality latex. This is a area where We master at . We are here to educate and when I educate it is specific. . Godfrey Hirst is a flat weave wool product with an attached jute backing. I hate to confront .
Jack May
That Kiwi
It ok Harry, I'm still learning, so I may have done it incorrectly???
I removed the jute secondary backing and if you look at the second picture above, you will see 'lumps' of the jute fibres still caught in 'lumps' of latex. I was evening them out, so that it would sit down nice and tight.
Are you suggesting that by doing so, I've weakened the donor to the point I've compromised the whole repiar?
In this case, would you have left the secondary backing intact?
John
I removed the jute secondary backing and if you look at the second picture above, you will see 'lumps' of the jute fibres still caught in 'lumps' of latex. I was evening them out, so that it would sit down nice and tight.
Are you suggesting that by doing so, I've weakened the donor to the point I've compromised the whole repiar?
In this case, would you have left the secondary backing intact?
John
Harry Myers
Member
John you are capable of fixing others repairs. This make you better. Any one can install. It is all in if you can cover your ass or not and that is the truth.When repairing skill is required . give this board time. I feel John and I can make a great tag team and bust y' all up.
John I'm sorry I put a extra word in there that should have been taken out thisw is what it should have read.
John I'm sorry I put a extra word in there that should have been taken out thisw is what it should have read.
Harry Myers
Member
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn27 ... 020045.jpg Here is a wool jute backed repair I created.
Harry Myers
Member
I am now running a row using a
comb.
Harry Myers
Member
After running the row. I use my top cutter with blades on the inside. I don't want to much of a guage on this material.
Harry Myers
Member
Sometimes I also use sciccors when cutting a seam. This also allows for a clean cut especiall on cross seams.
Harry Myers
Member
I will now cut out my donor . Also I have the primary and secondary edges glued ready for insert.
Harry Myers
Member
After inserting I roll it back for easy placement.
Harry Myers
Member
I'll put my weight on the material.
Harry Myers
Member
side view.
Harry Myers
Member
Overview.
Jack May
That Kiwi
Harry, did you theoretically use your hot melt glue gun to glue the new insert to the underlay?
John
John
Harry Myers
Member
I did reply I don't know what happened. I sealed it as you would a commercial glue down. Along the primary and secondary.
Jack May
That Kiwi
You are a layer, and install carpet to stay down, I come from a predominately restorer background where carpets need to be able to come up and be re installed.
As such, if you are using the cushion/pad as a backing/bonding material to support the bond, do you have a problem with it being a shorter term fix or am I barking up a tree on this?
It's just that I have had to fix numerous 'repairs' in cases where we've had to lift the carpet from a damage situation.
That's probably the primary reason why I always use a backing tape etc so that the carpet is still lift able/stretchable etc without it being bonded to the cushion/pad.
Also, and I realise this is different, but one of the local retailers' subbies fixed small problems in his install with latex. He cuts out the offending row/tufts or whatever, trims a small insert and then pumps the area below with latex and sits the new piece in. I've 'repaired' a dozen or more of his 'repairs'.
Again, I may be making a mountain out of a mole hill simply because of my back ground in water damage restoration.
Cheers, John
As such, if you are using the cushion/pad as a backing/bonding material to support the bond, do you have a problem with it being a shorter term fix or am I barking up a tree on this?
It's just that I have had to fix numerous 'repairs' in cases where we've had to lift the carpet from a damage situation.
That's probably the primary reason why I always use a backing tape etc so that the carpet is still lift able/stretchable etc without it being bonded to the cushion/pad.
Also, and I realise this is different, but one of the local retailers' subbies fixed small problems in his install with latex. He cuts out the offending row/tufts or whatever, trims a small insert and then pumps the area below with latex and sits the new piece in. I've 'repaired' a dozen or more of his 'repairs'.
Again, I may be making a mountain out of a mole hill simply because of my back ground in water damage restoration.
Cheers, John
Harry Myers
Member
John I was just showing that with the same product very much in similarity . By not distorting the backing , Or manipulating it in ant way . There is flat smooth surface. That repair as I claimed you can stretch off of that. John the most important part of putting a patch in is sealing it ,correct. I guarantee that is there for the longevity. I made that repair around 2 inches. I was showing a method. I would have prefer ed in that case to use the Kool glide. 
