harryhides
Member
Wild Bill Hickok's leather gun hoslter circa 1876.
Whaddya think ?
Whaddya think ?
Can this be restored ?
- Thread starter harryhides
- Start date
hogjowl
Idiot™
I don't think you'll get them to let you have it long enough to try.
IMO “Contemporary Restoration” does not apply in this case!
Rather it is a “Museum Conservation” undertaking!
Priority is still to maintain its aesthetic…retaining the age that tells its history…that qualifies a place for display only…
“Restoration” so to speak is only limited to restoring the “leather structure integrity”…
What do you think?
Roger Koh
Leather Doctor® System
Rather it is a “Museum Conservation” undertaking!
Priority is still to maintain its aesthetic…retaining the age that tells its history…that qualifies a place for display only…
“Restoration” so to speak is only limited to restoring the “leather structure integrity”…
What do you think?
Roger Koh
Leather Doctor® System
Heathrow
Member
If you mean that it "looks better the way it is", then I AGREE!
Harry Myers
Member
I worked for a customer who had wild Bill H Bulletts . This house was like a museum. If you were to touch the bullets they would crumble.
harryhides
Member
Obviously as a museum piece it's "look" should not be altered. However, if it were simply an old non-museum piece I believe that it could be made to look a lot more like it was when new.
I wonder if a coat or two of Fat Liquor on it;s inside surface would help to preserve it.
I wonder if a coat or two of Fat Liquor on it;s inside surface would help to preserve it.
Re: How to Restore & Preserve a Vegetable-Tanned Leather.
These “coarse breaks” (circled in white) are signs of leather “structure collapsed” (internal fiber damages) that need to be rectified.
The “internal leather fibrils” need to be preconditioned (rehydrated, swelled, separated, (+) ionic charged for even (-) anionic fatliquor distribution with good lasting polar hydrogen bonding).
And the “external surface tension” needs preconditioning (to minimized rapid physical absorption, to reduce patchiness, to reduce darkening effect) prior to effective fatliquoring.
So, just coating the surface alone will not be holistic enough to restore (internally) and preserve (externally).
What do you think?
Roger Koh
LeatherDoctor® System
These “coarse breaks” (circled in white) are signs of leather “structure collapsed” (internal fiber damages) that need to be rectified.
The “internal leather fibrils” need to be preconditioned (rehydrated, swelled, separated, (+) ionic charged for even (-) anionic fatliquor distribution with good lasting polar hydrogen bonding).
And the “external surface tension” needs preconditioning (to minimized rapid physical absorption, to reduce patchiness, to reduce darkening effect) prior to effective fatliquoring.
So, just coating the surface alone will not be holistic enough to restore (internally) and preserve (externally).
What do you think?
Roger Koh
LeatherDoctor® System
Bob Foster
Member
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2006
- Messages
- 8,870
Is stuff like this ever treated under a higher atmospheric pressure to drive in ingredients?
Or as in some medicine it is driven in by Electrophoresis - a charging of the medication. Why not the same thing with this "tissue".
Mechanism
There are a number of factors that influence iontophoretic transport including skin pH, drug concentration and characteristics, ionic competition, molecular size, current, voltage, time applied and skin resistance. The current density of the treatment electrode is perhaps the most important variable relative to the degree of ion transfer. Studies suggest that comparable iontophoretic doses delivered at low currents over longer periods are more effective than those delivered by high currents over a short periods (Anderson et al, 2003).
The isoelectric point of the skin is ~4; therefore, under physiological conditions, with the surface of the skin also buffered at or near 7.4, the membrane has a net negative charge and electroosmotic flow is from cathode (-) to anode (+). The phenomenon of electroosmosis has been used as a means to augment the anodic delivery of (in particular) large, positively charged drugs, the transport numbers of which are often extremely small (and whose iontophoretic enhancement therefore depends heavily upon electroosmosis) and to promote the transdermal migration of uncharged, yet polar, molecules, the passive permeation of which is typically very small.
The application of a charge to the skin alters the skin’s permeability increasing migration of the active ingredient into the epidermis. There are a number of pathways that the ingredients could take, but research suggests that the majority of drugs permeate the skin via appendageal pores, including hair follicles and sweat glands, although some delivery is via the paracellular channels and minimal quantities are transcellular.
Transport of lipophilic drug molecules is believed to be facilitated by its dissolution into the lipid matrix of the stratum corneum however hydrophilic drugs which are thought to permeate through the open pores or cutaneous appendages (hair follicle and sebaceous glands) only accounts for 0.1% of the total skin surface area.[1]
Uses
Reverse iontophoresis is the term used to describe the process whereby molecules are removed from within the body for detection. In reverse iontophoresis the negative charge of the skin at buffered pH causes it to be permselective to cations causing solvent flow towards the anode. This flow is the dominant force allowing movement of neutral molecules, including glucose, across the skin. This technology is currently being used in such devices as the GlucoWatch which allows for blood glucose detection across skin layers using reverse iontophoresis.
Iontophoresis is commonly used by physical therapists for the application of anti-inflammatory medications. Common diagnoses treated with Iontophoresis include plantar fasciitis, bursitis and hyperhidrosis [2]. There are around ten current iontophoresis machines to treat hyperhidrosis[3]. Iontophoresis of Acetylcholine is used in research as a way to test the health of the endothelium by stimulating endothelium dependent generation of nitric oxide and subsequent microvascular vasodilation. Acetylcholine is positively charged and therefore placed in the anode.
Alternatively, iontophoresis can reduce sweat in particular body parts such as the hands and feet in as little as a few treatments
Or as in some medicine it is driven in by Electrophoresis - a charging of the medication. Why not the same thing with this "tissue".
Mechanism
There are a number of factors that influence iontophoretic transport including skin pH, drug concentration and characteristics, ionic competition, molecular size, current, voltage, time applied and skin resistance. The current density of the treatment electrode is perhaps the most important variable relative to the degree of ion transfer. Studies suggest that comparable iontophoretic doses delivered at low currents over longer periods are more effective than those delivered by high currents over a short periods (Anderson et al, 2003).
The isoelectric point of the skin is ~4; therefore, under physiological conditions, with the surface of the skin also buffered at or near 7.4, the membrane has a net negative charge and electroosmotic flow is from cathode (-) to anode (+). The phenomenon of electroosmosis has been used as a means to augment the anodic delivery of (in particular) large, positively charged drugs, the transport numbers of which are often extremely small (and whose iontophoretic enhancement therefore depends heavily upon electroosmosis) and to promote the transdermal migration of uncharged, yet polar, molecules, the passive permeation of which is typically very small.
The application of a charge to the skin alters the skin’s permeability increasing migration of the active ingredient into the epidermis. There are a number of pathways that the ingredients could take, but research suggests that the majority of drugs permeate the skin via appendageal pores, including hair follicles and sweat glands, although some delivery is via the paracellular channels and minimal quantities are transcellular.
Transport of lipophilic drug molecules is believed to be facilitated by its dissolution into the lipid matrix of the stratum corneum however hydrophilic drugs which are thought to permeate through the open pores or cutaneous appendages (hair follicle and sebaceous glands) only accounts for 0.1% of the total skin surface area.[1]
Uses
Reverse iontophoresis is the term used to describe the process whereby molecules are removed from within the body for detection. In reverse iontophoresis the negative charge of the skin at buffered pH causes it to be permselective to cations causing solvent flow towards the anode. This flow is the dominant force allowing movement of neutral molecules, including glucose, across the skin. This technology is currently being used in such devices as the GlucoWatch which allows for blood glucose detection across skin layers using reverse iontophoresis.
Iontophoresis is commonly used by physical therapists for the application of anti-inflammatory medications. Common diagnoses treated with Iontophoresis include plantar fasciitis, bursitis and hyperhidrosis [2]. There are around ten current iontophoresis machines to treat hyperhidrosis[3]. Iontophoresis of Acetylcholine is used in research as a way to test the health of the endothelium by stimulating endothelium dependent generation of nitric oxide and subsequent microvascular vasodilation. Acetylcholine is positively charged and therefore placed in the anode.
Alternatively, iontophoresis can reduce sweat in particular body parts such as the hands and feet in as little as a few treatments
hogjowl
Idiot™
Cut-n-paste made Stockwell a guru for awhile, too.
Bob Foster
Member
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2006
- Messages
- 8,870
I cut and pasted the Wikipedia so that others could understand what I was talking about using a charge to drive a product into the leather. It just occurred to me that might not have been tried and I could see where it might work quite well.
Iontophoresis kits can be obtained quite readily from a company that supplies physical therapy equipment. Since this hand held battery operated equipment is not expensive it might be worth a try. And that wasn't a Wikipedia idea it was my idea SmaRty.....
a]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lL9ePKUGpYa]
Iontophoresis kits can be obtained quite readily from a company that supplies physical therapy equipment. Since this hand held battery operated equipment is not expensive it might be worth a try. And that wasn't a Wikipedia idea it was my idea SmaRty.....
a]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lL9ePKUGpYa]
hogjowl
Idiot™
Hehehe ... made ya blink 
jayjacques
Member
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2008
- Messages
- 153
I think ya'll should have been physicists :?
Bob Foster
Member
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2006
- Messages
- 8,870
A DC monophasic or faradic low voltage current might work. This current is often used on denervated tissue and offers subcutaneous delivery (completely through the leather).
Or an other idea; sonophoresis ......... seriously
Or an other idea; sonophoresis ......... seriously
Lee Stockwell
FOJL
Marty probably still remembers that I had to show him how to cut and paste....
Bob Foster
Member
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2006
- Messages
- 8,870
After university I spent the first half of my working life in the medical equipment industry. My area of expertise was electrotherapeutic devices sold to physical therapists, sports medicine doctors and orthopedic surgeons (physiotherapists to the Brits and us Kanuks).
Soft tissue can accept current and you can drive ingredients into it electrically and sonically so why not leather? It is actually an interesting concept and well worth and experiment to see if it would be suitable for restoration work on high value items. Many cutaneous and subcutaneous clinical trials are porcine trials. (Done with pigs, only smarter ones than Marty).
Soft tissue can accept current and you can drive ingredients into it electrically and sonically so why not leather? It is actually an interesting concept and well worth and experiment to see if it would be suitable for restoration work on high value items. Many cutaneous and subcutaneous clinical trials are porcine trials. (Done with pigs, only smarter ones than Marty).
"Is stuff like this ever treated under a higher atmospheric pressure to drive in ingredients?"
A “Hyperbaric Chamber” or “Pressurize Chamber” perhaps might work to drive the tanning oils and other leather conditioner be it polymer, oil or wax into the leather structure.
Pressurized, so as to stuff the oil in, may also saturate the inter fibrillary spaces with permeable negativity.
So, what happen when it is taken out of this “higher atmospheric pressure chamber” when the job is done?
1. I believe any oil, wax, polymer or conditioner that is stuff in will leak out too (with a lower atmospheric pressure now).
2. And most oil, wax and conditioners usually darken the leather that will kill the original aesthetic too.
3. Whether it will regain its tensile strength with suppleness (flexing without coarse break) is yet to be tested.
"Or as in some medicine it is driven in by Electrophoresis - a charging of the medication".
This “Electrophoresis” charging application has only two distinct locations, how do we multiply these charges to be evenly distributed to the entire leather structure is yet to be comprehended.
The leather may appear with darker spots where the current is stronger at the poles.
"Why not the same thing with this "tissue"".
The same thing you refer to is the “same polar universal principle” just like poles of magnet - like poles repel, unlike poles attract.
This (+) and (-) principles are also applied to “static electricity spray powder coating” - as in an advancement over zinc-plating and chromium plating.
We have a proven “breakthrough fatliquoring technology” at hand that does the work - affordable and simple to use - just spray soak with fun!
So fatliquoring, after preconditioning, is an advanced technology breakthrough of applied chemistry relying on the micro ionic (+) and (-), without the any high tech costly equipment.
Tannery fatliquoring technology at present still relies on a hot water system of up to 125ºF for effective fatliquoring.
Heat is utilized to stabilize the fatliquor emulsion to keep the oils and water from separating.
And to facilitate the opening of the leather pores before the oil and water separates.
fatliquor5.0™ has been frozen and defrost, yet maintaining its stable micro-emulsion characteristic just like fresh milk.
fatliquor5.0™ pH value ± 5.0 is an anionic fatliquor of choice for all acidic (pH 3-5) healthy leathers.
However to ensure an effective long lasting polar hydrogen bonding we need to precondition (acidify) the protein fibers below the fiber isoelectric point below pH 4 (Vegetable-Tanned) in this case to cationic (+) with a pH 3.3 relaxer (relaxer3.3™).
This is not just “applied chemistry” it will also work before your eyes, when you try it!
Try experimenting with a piece of old vegetable-tanned leathers (similar to any leather soles).
After cleaning it with a pH 3.8 (clean3.8™) cleaner and acidifier rinse with a pH 3.0 (rinse3.0™) and rehydrate with relaxer3.3™ (pH 3.3).
Put it into a zip log bag and soak with this fatliquor5.0™.
At first you see the milky fatliquor, leave it to the next day you will see the fatliquor clearer just like water.
Where does the charged anionic (-) fats and oils that were encased within the water go to?
As a result of water-dipole movement it has resulted in a hydrogen bonding with the protein fibers.
All theory claimed has to be proven.
That applied science is a proven fact!
And applied art is a proven practice!
See how interesting leather can be!
We begin to talk with the same level as any “dermatologists”.
Leather cleaning was my key to all high-end cleaning, be it carpet, rugs, upholstery, painting, mounts, etc.
Roger Koh
LeatherDoctor® System
A “Hyperbaric Chamber” or “Pressurize Chamber” perhaps might work to drive the tanning oils and other leather conditioner be it polymer, oil or wax into the leather structure.
Pressurized, so as to stuff the oil in, may also saturate the inter fibrillary spaces with permeable negativity.
So, what happen when it is taken out of this “higher atmospheric pressure chamber” when the job is done?
1. I believe any oil, wax, polymer or conditioner that is stuff in will leak out too (with a lower atmospheric pressure now).
2. And most oil, wax and conditioners usually darken the leather that will kill the original aesthetic too.
3. Whether it will regain its tensile strength with suppleness (flexing without coarse break) is yet to be tested.
"Or as in some medicine it is driven in by Electrophoresis - a charging of the medication".
This “Electrophoresis” charging application has only two distinct locations, how do we multiply these charges to be evenly distributed to the entire leather structure is yet to be comprehended.
The leather may appear with darker spots where the current is stronger at the poles.
"Why not the same thing with this "tissue"".
The same thing you refer to is the “same polar universal principle” just like poles of magnet - like poles repel, unlike poles attract.
This (+) and (-) principles are also applied to “static electricity spray powder coating” - as in an advancement over zinc-plating and chromium plating.
We have a proven “breakthrough fatliquoring technology” at hand that does the work - affordable and simple to use - just spray soak with fun!
So fatliquoring, after preconditioning, is an advanced technology breakthrough of applied chemistry relying on the micro ionic (+) and (-), without the any high tech costly equipment.
Tannery fatliquoring technology at present still relies on a hot water system of up to 125ºF for effective fatliquoring.
Heat is utilized to stabilize the fatliquor emulsion to keep the oils and water from separating.
And to facilitate the opening of the leather pores before the oil and water separates.
fatliquor5.0™ has been frozen and defrost, yet maintaining its stable micro-emulsion characteristic just like fresh milk.
fatliquor5.0™ pH value ± 5.0 is an anionic fatliquor of choice for all acidic (pH 3-5) healthy leathers.
However to ensure an effective long lasting polar hydrogen bonding we need to precondition (acidify) the protein fibers below the fiber isoelectric point below pH 4 (Vegetable-Tanned) in this case to cationic (+) with a pH 3.3 relaxer (relaxer3.3™).
This is not just “applied chemistry” it will also work before your eyes, when you try it!
Try experimenting with a piece of old vegetable-tanned leathers (similar to any leather soles).
After cleaning it with a pH 3.8 (clean3.8™) cleaner and acidifier rinse with a pH 3.0 (rinse3.0™) and rehydrate with relaxer3.3™ (pH 3.3).
Put it into a zip log bag and soak with this fatliquor5.0™.
At first you see the milky fatliquor, leave it to the next day you will see the fatliquor clearer just like water.
Where does the charged anionic (-) fats and oils that were encased within the water go to?
As a result of water-dipole movement it has resulted in a hydrogen bonding with the protein fibers.
All theory claimed has to be proven.
That applied science is a proven fact!
And applied art is a proven practice!
See how interesting leather can be!
We begin to talk with the same level as any “dermatologists”.
Leather cleaning was my key to all high-end cleaning, be it carpet, rugs, upholstery, painting, mounts, etc.
Roger Koh
LeatherDoctor® System
