Carpet Bubbles

[Spurlington]

I did this commercial glue down in an empty store which was 40ft wide by 30ft. Carpet was glued down in 12 foot wide by 30 ft long sections. The heat and humidity was causing most areas to bubble. Especially where the seams were. Seams actually opend up as they curled.

Now, if the seams were seamed with seam tape, would they have bubbled? I didnt see any tape but dont really know what Im looking for. I want to know what Im talking about incase the building owner has questions.

Thanks

 

[J Scott W]

Direct glue down carpet generally would not have used seam tape.

The issue is probably differential expansion. Carpet has several layers. When one layer absorbs moisture and wants to expand more than the other layers, the tendency is to curl. If the adhesive is doing it job of keeping the carpet in place, there is no problem. Could be wrong adhesive, improper application of the adhesive, adhesive getting old and no longer effective or similar issues. It all relates to the combination of adhesive not working and the humidity. Get the carpet dry and the air dry and the carpet will lay back down. Plenty of ventilation or a dehumidifier if the weather is really humid.

Might suggest a repair by re-gluing carpet along the seams. To prevent in the future, you could use air movers and good ventilation to move humid air out of the building and dry air in.

 

[Cleanworks]

Direct glue down carpet generally would not have used seam tape.

The issue is probably differential expansion. Carpet has several layers. When one layer absorbs moisture and wants to expand more than the other layers, the tendency is to curl. If the adhesive is doing it job of keeping the carpet in place, there is no problem. Could be wrong adhesive, improper application of the adhesive, adhesive getting old and no longer effective or similar issues. It all relates to the combination of adhesive not working and the humidity. Get the carpet dry and the air dry and the carpet will lay back down. Plenty of ventilation or a dehumidifier if the weather is really humid.

Might suggest a repair by re-gluing carpet along the seams. To prevent in the future, you could use air movers and good ventilation to move humid air out of the building and dry air in.

That's what I would have said. Having cleaned a "perimeter glued down carpet" Glue down, is supposed to mean, "GLUE DOWN".

 

[SamIam]

That's what I would have said. Having cleaned a "perimeter glued down carpet" Glue down, is supposed to mean, "GLUE DOWN".

Ya but it’s expensive and goes everywhere

 

[Dolly Llama]

improper install most often is the reason .
I've seen some buckle with just minimal pre-spray
and the worst I've ever seen , with high humidity alone

it "should" lay flat again once completely dry

..L.T.A.

 

[Spurlington]

yeah a few small areas did bubble up before I actually cleaned them .. from the prespraying process

 

[Brian H]

Just like Larry said, 99.999% of the time it will just lay flat again once completely dry and the humidity has returned to normal.

 

[Mark Saiger]

 

[Willy P]

The seams weren't buttered with a proper seaming adhesive.

http://www.robertsconsolidated.com/en/products.php?c=&cat=1&sub=23&prod=28

 

[Cleanworks]

The seams weren't buttered with a proper seaming adhesive.

http://www.robertsconsolidated.com/en/products.php?c=&cat=1&sub=23&prod=28

2 major flaws in stretch in installation. Not power stretched and seams not buttered. The seaming tape reps tell installers that with their new tapes, you don't need to butter the seams. Not true. That's why you see tufts coming out at the seams or runs on looped carpet. If you use seam lock properly, it will never happen.

 

[ruff]

Can't remember the last time I saw an installation with buttered seams.
Coming to think of it, can't remember the first time either.

They just don't seem to do it.

 

[sassyotto]

I have an article on the technical reasons that cause this on the truck. When it happens I just explain that in a day or two it will go back down and hand them a copy of the article to keep. If it was my word alone I don't know that they would believe me but put an article in front of them legitimizes it. Written by Tom Hill I think.

Seem to give one out every other month or so. Never had a call back.

 

[Spurlington]

I have an article on the technical reasons that cause this

Post it

 

[Small town janitorial]

I've had this problem a few times. It sure does make you panic the first time you see it. More fans and dehumidifiers fix it in a few hrs usually.

 

[Cleanworks]

90 % of the time, the bubbling is caused by improper installation. The cleaning had nothing to do with it. I had one job in a strata condo building with a less than 2 year old glue down installation. As soon as I began prespraying, it began to lift and buckle. When it dried, it was badly buckled and some seams had come apart, mainly at suite entrances. The strata president called the installation company who replied that they had done a perimeter glue down. Meaning, they had only glued down the edges, leaving the middle part of the carpet loose. Not an approved installation technique. That company eventually had to eat the damages. Usually, the only time a carpet cleaner is responsible, is if he greatly overwet the carpet. If it took more than 2 days to dry, it might your fault. Even then, I have seen water damaged glue down carpets that were completely soaked for several days not buckle.

 

[Uncle Joe]

Can't remember the last time I saw an installation with buttered seams.
Coming to think of it, can't remember the first time either.

They just don't seem to do it.

As a commercial flooring contractor the specs say you must use seam sealer and we do. Had an entire new schools carpet seams break apart on us and manufacturer said we did not use their seam sealer but we did. (6000 yards) Luckily, I had kept the left over carpet and sealer, and gave the manufacturer some of it to install it "correctly" with any installers they desired. The carpet did the same thing to them. Came to discover the manufacturer did not install the secondary backing on it which diminished the dimensional stability. They paid me to replace it all. Moral, you best be using it!

 

[Nomad74]

I butter the seams all the time. It's how I was taught. You should see some of the "repairs" I come across. The monkeys in my area are comical. It's easy to tell if the contractor used the correct sealer if it glows in UV light.

 

[The Great Oz]

Glue-down carpet should not buckle or come up at the seams. Cheating on glue seems to be fairly common, as the installer is paying for the adhesive.

I've also seen well-meaning installers use trowels that are worn, which seems to be the problem with the carpet we recently had installed in our office. They had to come back and redo the installation.

Rippling is not a cleaning problem unless you soaked the carpet and left it wet for hours.


PS: Commercial glue-down carpet needs the seams buttered only if it is tufted with a primary/secondary backing. Seam sealer has an additive that glows under a black light so an inspector can easily see if it has been used. If there is a seam failure and no sealer, the installer is on the hook.

 

[Dolly Llama]

No offense to the Uncle Joes out there.
But the installer trade is so full of dysfunctional chararecters with "personal problems" it ain't funny

Top of that, they've been squeezed on price so hard they're still getting the same pay rate to install as 1990

The Sherwin Williams rep (they sell carpet here) told me my area's pay rate was actually pretty high
They pay $2.50 a yard to their subs up here
Told me from Columbus and south to Cincinnati they're paying $1.80 sy

and yep, the subs provide their own seam tape and tac strip



depressed pricing and more drunks 'n drug addicts than you can shake a stick at
it's no damn wonder so many installs are crAp

..L.T.A.

 

[sassyotto]

But the installer trade is so full of dysfunctional chararecters with "personal problems" it ain't funny

AGREE! In the last 10 years I have seen a substantial drop in properly installed carpets. See a little bubble in a doorway and you can bet your bippie there will be more.

Who trains these people?

 

[Old Coastie]

My goodness, I haven’t bet my sweet bippie on anything since 1972!

But it was a winning bet...

 

[Brian H]

I did carpet installation inspections a long, long time ago.... There have always been problems with installers.

My favorite one was an installer who miscut a corner, so he took a triangular piece of the carpet and just stapled it into the corner on top of the carpet. If I remember, I found 22 separate issues with that one job. And this was for a high end department store's carpet department

 

[J Scott W]

My favorite - I was interviewing carpet installers to hire. I asked one if he had his own power stretcher. Reply, "No. I mostly do new construction before the power is turned on."

 

[Brian H]

That's funny Lee! That used to be one of the first questions I asked during the inspection, whether or not they used a power stretcher. Of course most people didn't know what it means, so you would have to describe the process. "Did they have a thing with long poles attached going from one side to the other or did they just use a thing they hit with their knee?"

Oh and never, ever, EVER say "a knee kick" to an Arab speaking person..... unless you want to get your butt kicked. Especially if you replace the "i" in kick with an "e".

 

[Cleanworks]

That's funny Lee! That used to be one of the first questions I asked during the inspection, whether or not they used a power stretcher. Of course most people didn't know what it means, so you would have to describe the process. "Did they have a thing with long poles attached going from one side to the other or did they just use a thing they hit with their knee?"

Oh and never, ever, EVER say "a knee kick" to an Arab speaking person..... unless you want to get your butt kicked. Especially if you replace the "i" in kick with an "e".

I was taking a carpet repair course once and just before the noon break, the instructor says, after lunch, we will learn to use a power stretcher. He turns to and installer who has been at it for 30 years and asks, can you find somewhere to plug it in? The installer was looking all over for the plug and extension cord. 30 years and never used a power stretcher

 

[Spurlington]

All bubbles gone and most importantly .. seams flattened out as if it just got laid

I wasnt really worried about the waves .. the seams curled back n high I thought it was gonna dry that way