Centrum Force buys the Moore Machine

T Monahan

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Mikey: Here is another video that was shot with Ellen Amirkhan, of Oriental Rug Cleaning, using her Centri-Maxx for the first time. She bought the Centrum Force machine because she still wanted to spin a rug out using a centrifuge knowing she could get even more water out even after using the MOR Time Saving rinse/wringer. (She affectionately calls the Moore machine "Big Red.") You got to love her facial expression at the end of the video.

http://youtu.be/fhFAoyoRYZY
 

rhyde

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So far everyone I have talked to that has centrum equipment has been happy and received prompt service when you run a business and rely on a manufacturers equipment that's important.
 

T Monahan

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Perhaps Lisa at Blatchford's, or Ken at Hagopian's, or Bryan at D.A. Burns can address the concerns with what Mickey call's "crunch" that may occur coming out the compression wringer rollers.
 

Ken Snow

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Hi Tom
Compression wringing won't in and of itself harm fibers, but rugs that have structural integrity issues (dry rot, inferior or deteriorated backings on cheap tufted rugs etc.) may be further damaged going through a complete Moore system or any other wash process. These potentially problematic situations need to be recognized and handled properly so the cleaner does not own the problem.

Ken
 

T Monahan

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Randy,

In the next few months we will announce what machines will come on line again and when. The famed rinse wringer, Roll-A-Jet, rug rollers of sorts, and more...

Yes we will continue to supply parts for machines out there as well as offer a service to refurbish existing ones.

Thanks for asking.
 

T Monahan

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I had the honor to visit Atiyeh Brothers in Portland, Oregon yesterday. They have one of the oldest MOR Time Saving Automated Brush Washer/Ringer as seen pictured here. It was built and delivered in the 1950's and works fine. At their other location they have a 1960's Roll-a-Jet. Brian and Tom were glad to hear Centrum Force bought Moore's and will continue to supply parts and service to the machines.

View attachment 572View attachment 573
 
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T Monahan

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[video=vimeo;49954213]https://vimeo.com/49954213[/video]
 
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F

FB19087

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Tom,

Looks like for vimeo you will need to use the insert video button and copy/paste the direct url in

View attachment 586
 
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LisaWagnerCRS

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Yet another reason to support the efforts to find more effective options for extraction that are affordable for those who do not have the larger rug operations. Not everyone has the capital to purchase a $100K set up - nor should they invest at the level of rug volume they are doing. These are volume based cleaning choices.

Right now you have the cheap, low tech end of water claws and wands, and the expensive large equipment. It will be very interesting to see who gets motivated to find something in the middle ground. The Evacuator is interesting. It would be cool to see a floor size version you could wash on and then extract in place. That would be cool. =)

Lisa
 

LisaWagnerCRS

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We've not ever had a problem. We have a hydraulic roller wringer (not Moore), that adjusts with the rug, and even compromised rugs with areas of dry rot can be secured to roll through it. It sure is a time saver - the rug is through in under a minute, all nice and flat so that it can continue drying out flat (we don't hang any of our rugs since San Diego is a drying room). =)

I wish they were still making these babies... I do prefer them to the spinning wringers, and I like the simplicity of the design. Since the rollers are similar to the printing press rollers, you'd think we'd have a lot of "parts" to make something work, and closer to the $20k range with all of the excess parts. We will see what happens... the industry definitely needs some more effective, but more affordable, options, and with all of the tufted rugs on the market, keeping their shape does work better through a pressing roller wringer in some cases.

It's nice to see so much focus on the rug field... I'm a happy rug cleaner. =)

Lisa
 

Zee

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That is my wish too that someone would get the right size equipment for the none volume cleaners...those that would do about 50 rugs a month.

I soo wish to have a smaller wringer that could be set up in a shop. I have my ideas of- how big and what it could do but I sure won't build it for a while... (sometimes I even dream about hand cranking thru one of those really old wringers I saw maybe in Lisa's post one time..that could be fun :lol: )

I wonder if it would make sense to build a smaller size (and a lot cheaper) roll-a-jet type unit, and sell a lot of them for "smallish" shops?
 

T Monahan

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There is nothing wrong or inappropriate to stay in a wash pit without the benefit of Time Saving Equipment. For many, that is the level of rug processing that still makes sense for their situation. For others, it may make better sense to form strategic alliances with good in-plant rug washing establishments for a wholesale discount. Have them do your rugs and then add a margin for your marketing and handling costs.

Press rollers or compression wringers are tools to use for more than squeezing rugs. Rug washers know they are adding another dimension to processing a variety of issues with rugs that are apart from just getting water out of a one. Adding a rinse bar and conveyor system to the press rollers or compression wringers will add to the cost of production and subsequently the retail cost. It is all in what is wanted.

Not all tools manufactured for the professional rug care industry are for everyone. Centrum Force®, and now their division of MOR Time Saving Pieces of Equipment, is only a justified expense economically by the volume of rugs processed and the profit retrieved. Time Saving Equipment increases capacity, it does not make the rugs come to you for washing and your subsequent profit. That is up to your sales and marketing program. We do not offer such a marketing program.
 

T Monahan

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We wash hundreds of rugs a week, and I get several tech disasters a day from cleaners doing work in the homes, or in their mini-plants. I know some of you don't care for what I write. Good thing it's a free country, and that it's all free, because you don't have to read anything from me and you don't have to pay a dime for it. But for some out there, what I write helps them, and that's why I'm doing it.

Lisa

Lisa, if you would not mind responding further, I have some questions that may help put things into perspective.

1. Do you exclusively own K. Blatchford's Rug Cleaning Company?
2. What kind of compression roller/wringer does K. Blatchford’s have?
3. What did ‘your’ wringer cost and what volume/revenue of rugs per week/month justified buying it?
4. How many rugs can ’you’ dry flat overnight in San Diego’s ambient temperature and low humidity?
5. How many rugs do ‘you’ wash in a week?
6. How many people are required on the wash floor to achieve ‘your’ week of results?
7. How often do ‘you’ personally wash rugs?

Thanks in advance!
 

The Great Oz

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We use a compression wringer. The only rug that would not get squeezed would be one that couldn't be cleaned with water.


As I've recommended in the past (and Tom has said as well) let the business volume drive your equipment purchases.

After a rug duster of some type, typically the first piece of equipment to think about when volume gets to be 25 rugs or so a week is a mechanical wringer.

The advantage of the compression wringer is speed. Less than a minute to remove 90% of the water in a rug, which is very handy if you're doing production work. Faster drying than you can achieve using a wand prevents a lot of problems.

The advantage of a centrifuge is that it can remove even more water, it will require more time and effort to load and unload than a compression wringer, but may reduce the amount of time used for rug handling later.

Cost of equipment might be a purchasing consideration as well.
 

sweendogg

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:clap: Don't know bout the rest of you folk, but I'm enjoying the thread! :rockon: (and the outstanding selection of emoticons!) Our company is on a growth plan. Last spring it made sense to purchase our centrifuge, and it has made my job a heck of a lot easier, from quicker dry times, easier rug handling post extraction, as well as almost complete elimination of fringe detailing. We simply are more productive. As we continue to grow our rug cleaning business, we will be looking to add probably a wash tub, larger dusting equipment and possibly if volume dicated a mor machine and in that order. But as its been stated, you have to let your business dictate what equipment to buy.

Zee mentioned as did Lisa they wanted more affordable equipment that was made for smaller operations. But how do you make equipment that will stand up the rigors of rug cleaning and stay affordable? There are only three ways to really do that: Make the equipment smaller: (Tom already does this as he showed at connections this year) Smaller size may reduce the overall cost but it also limits the size of rugs you can handle. The time saving equipment really shines with larger rugs for if you have spent any time cleaning rugs you know that the time spent cleaning large rugs compared to smaller rugs, is not a nice linear relationship. So smaller equipment limits the size of rug, and so you are still spent hand washing and manually extraction your larger rugs with truckmounts or your extractor of choice.

You could make it with less expensive materials, but then you are looking at increased cost of repairs as breakdowns are likely to happen more often, and probably looking at a quicker replacement cost. Then the question becomes are you really saving any if you have a higher invesment in downtime, repairs, or shorter equipment life? The point of having the equipment is to be productive. Down time from repairs or machien failure is not being productive. If you are handling rugs of any value, it would be terrible to have your machine fail with a rug in it.

And you could make them less complex as lisa stated. A simple wringer with no spray bar would serve its purpose in extraction of water at a quicker rate. But you still have a good majority of time spent on properly cleaning a rug on a wash floor or in a pit. And in most drying situations, you will still have to deal with fringe correction or extended drying. (not all of us can live in sandiego! ;)) In our business's example, it made more sense to invest in a centrifuge where during the three minutes of extraction, I can get a nother rug out on the floor and ready to be washed, or the rug can stay in the centrifuge until i'm ready to move it to the grooming and drying area and put another rug in. As Tom aluded to above, I can effectively wash 10 to 20 rugs a day by my self with out the need for an extra set of hands. Granted we have a forklift and can roll the rug over a plastic core to put in the centrifuge, but Tom's cart still makes it possible for one person to handle a large rug safely with one person. If we had a wringer, unless I had conveyer system down low to pull the rug up on, I couldn't do it with one person safely. And that conveyor system still adds to the complexity.

Bottom line is this:

Your business model dictates how you grow your business. If you want to be the grow your business to handle volume work, you are going to add the right equipment and the right employees at the right time to stay profitable and the equipment on the market today can handle that.

If you want to remain a botique cleaner and only clean smaller rugs you bring home from your cleaning jobs, equipment now exists for that venture as well. (ask tom about it!)

Or you can control your volume by increaseing your prices in which case less complex machinery is needed (lisa's model).

Yet another reason to support the efforts to find more effective options for extraction that are affordable for those who do not have the larger rug operations. Not everyone has the capital to purchase a $100K set up - nor should they invest at the level of rug volume they are doing. These are volume based cleaning choices.

Right now you have the cheap, low tech end of water claws and wands, and the expensive large equipment. It will be very interesting to see who gets motivated to find something in the middle ground. The Evacuator is interesting. It would be cool to see a floor size version you could wash on and then extract in place. That would be cool. =)

Lisa​

The desicion of Centrum Force to purchae Mor is great for our industry. It provides ongoing support for the machines that already exist. It provides greater flexibility for Centrum Force to reintroduce the original machine designs and add additional options such as a lower tech compression wringer. And best of all it means that technology will be around and continue to be made in USA for many many years to come which means people like me who look to take our 60 year old business to 100 will be able to utilize this technology when the time is right for out business, and I'm sure that same can be said about many other businesses out there.

While a company could go out and spend 100K plus on equipment, Tom will be the very first to tell you not to. He knows first hand that isn't how it works.

Starting with a portable duster, a wash pit or wash floor, a truckmount or portable extractor and a water claw, rover, or evacuator, and PROPER TRAINING, can get a company to the point where they can afford and justifty a piece of equipment to make the cleaning process easier.

At $38,000 roughly for a sp12 centrifuge, I believe this is a great middle ground. A compression wringer in my opionion requires two people to operate safely on behalf of the rug as well as well as the safety of the workers: If you already have the man power, then a compression wringer will make sense but if you have to hire an employee to safely work with the rugs and equipment then a centrifuge will make more sense.

And food for thought: if you have something that bridges the gap between water claws, rovers, and such, eventually you'll need more productivity which means you now having step to the large equipment... So is there really any savings? compared to purchasing that 100k in machinery one piece at a time as needed?

Just my thoughts on the subject any ways.
 

LisaWagnerCRS

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Quick answers to the questions - sorry for the delay, it's been a really busy week... which means a really happy week! =) It's amazing with the economy this bad, and our state slowly spiraling down the toilet (and perhaps faster if the president gets re-elected...) - the rug business is strong this year. In our area the strongest it's ever been. However, we did have one of the oldest plants in our area go out of business this year, 50 years older than us, so that is creating a little bump that is helping our numbers.

I own 40% of our company, mom owns 60%. It's been that way since we opened this location in June of 1990 (we were in La Jolla before that where my parents both owned the gallery and service side for several decades).

We wash several hundred rugs a week. We are not high volume like the rug studs here, Bryan and Ken, but we are much higher volume than most of the industry, and that's how we like the flow right now. We've maximized our 9,000+ sq ft, and are maximizing our profit at this point, which is ideal.

I oversee the operations, I run the training, and I lead the sales. I personally wash those orders that require more of a conservator touch, especially fragile pieces, either wash or repair, because the family members have pretty much done everything at some point. I can do everything from dusting to fringe scrubbing to tax filing to expert witness testimony to you name it... but as your company grows you should be defining what you are great at, and produces the most profit for the company, and delegate the rest to your team or to vendors. I'm in the plant 5 days a week, days split between being in the warehouse in the middle of operations, and in the front in the middle of building client relationships. It's a really great mix for me.

Our wringer was built in 1951, it is not a Moore - I can't remember the "name". It just got a tune-up today and my machinist says it's good for another 60 years. We bought it second hand and broken for less than $5,000. It's had 2 million square feet of rugs run through it over the past 16 years.

As far as how many rugs before you move to large equipment, well that really depends on many different factors. In my hands-on workshop with Jim, we can wash and dry 15 rugs in 2 and a half days without any large equipment - pit washing, but utilizing a lot of tools and items most carpet cleaners who also do restoration already own. We teach it this way so that it is not teaching on large equipment that they will not have when they return home to use. We want to show them what is possible by thinking it through, and strategizing space in a small warehouse, and using what they already own.

The trap is thinking that owning large equipment brings you the work. If you build it, they will come. We were a struggling, wholesale focused operation when we began, charging 50 cents a sq ft. We were not successful because of the wringer. It was deciding to move away from the rug galleries and truly become a service-focused operation that transformed our operation into profitability. And it was not the cleaning skills, but the business skills, that mattered most... well, and the marketing. =)

If you have the money, and the market, then going big if you are not digging a huge debt hole, might be the path to take starting out. The thing is though, if you are a 1 or 2 person show, adding the larger equipment will require you get more rugs in there, which will require space and people, and many in this industry confuse cash flowing through their fingers as meaning "we are making money"... when sometimes it's flowing into unprofitability.

When I train cleaners in this field, I work to get them as effective and profitable with what they have first, and then with clear numbers and an understanding of true costs, plan to expand by selecting an area to "upgrade" that makes the best return on investment. Maybe that is a duster, or pouring a floor, or a revolution or centrifuge. Every situation is different.

I've seen enough rug plants build up, and then go out of business, to simply preach to make sure you know what you are doing first. When the time is right the numbers should clearly show that you can pay it off in increased production within a clearly defined period of time.

This is a great field, but it is not easy money. Nothing worth building is ever truly "easy." What you aim for is something that is enjoyable and profitable, and ultimately leverageable through team and equipment investments... because a one man growing shop when it comes down to it, might be really cool, but it is still a "job." When he/she stops, the money stops, and that is not true when larger company owners with the right teams go off and away from work and have general managers and division managers running the day-to-day.

Happy Rug Cleaning!
Lisa
 
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rhyde

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The advantage of a centrifuge is that it can remove even more water, it will require more time and effort to load and unload than a compression wringer, but may reduce the amount of time used for rug handling later.


Combining a compression wringer with a with a centrifuge and it becomes much easier handle and load big rugs problem is volume.
 

T Monahan

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Lisa Wagner,

Thank you for answering some of the questions I raised. Thank you for offering some general observations regarding your involvement with the K. Blatchford operation in San Diego, CA. What a challenge that must have been when you were the CEO of Piranha, living in Arizona, along with all the traveling, putting on workshops and cleaning clinics too. You stated you oversee the day to day operation. Since you said, “We wash several hundred rugs a week”, would it be fair to assume that it is in the realm of at least 300 rugs? (To me, several means consisting of a number more than 2) If that assumption is correct, and you have “9,000+ sq ft” of space at your facility that includes, offices, repair rooms, rug storage, rug wringer and other machines, I would still be interested in how you would answer question #4. How many rugs can ’you’ dry flat overnight in San Diego’s ambient temperature and low humidity? This is fascinating to me and likely to others. If it’s not proprietary, would you please answer questions #5 through #7 too?
 

T Monahan

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Ken Snow with Hagopian can accomplish these numbers, and more, due to having MOR Time Saving Equipment and a great staff running the system. His company has a fully automated wash/wringer and heated dry room with many poles. I have been to his place many times. To accomplish reaching 726 rugs in one week does not even reach his capacity. Undoubtedly more volume is being done by this method, that they choose at Hagopian, in seasonal weeks of the year. He has a large wooden floor too to dry some rugs flat and adjust some shapes of others.

Ken,

If you don't mind sharing: How big is the rug cleaning crew to accomplish 726 rugs in one week?

Why not post a video of your operation to help others appreciate how you can accomplish these real numbers.

Thanks!
 

T Monahan

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Maybe, just maybe, many of those posters were told very convincing lies by one of your opposition, who shall remain nameless until the cobwebs are wiped off and the memory banks are not so dusty.

Wiping some cobwebs.....

Here was a post I found in the archives started by Mikey himself. It was in reference to our centrifuge. Please review the remark and now my followup response:

Re: So, Mr Lancaster, how is your's different?

That proprietory drive system is a trailer tire on the end of a cheap Baldor motor running against the OD of the inter tube to rotate it. That is the squilling sound on start up and stopping.

Apparently Mr. Lancaster was fed misinformation and failed to show diligence and get accurate knowledge before he attempted to explain how our centrifuge is built. There are NO trailer tires rotating our cylinders in Centri-Maxx® and never has been.

We have permitted baseless remarks to be made, and unchallenged, until we received our US Patent on the 8 claims we submitted. The silence on our part was required based on the advice of our intellectual property attorneys managing our affairs.

The following is a brief description about elements that drive the cylinders in the centrifuges that Greg Turcotte and I manufacture:

We have two types of drive systems used in two Centri-Maxx® versions respectively. Each model machine uses a 10 hp Baldor motor. Baldor is a recognized industrial motor with an excellent record for years of performance. In our ‘SP’ series or ‘Single Port’, the motor drives the tail shaft of the cylinder by means of a belt, and thus spins the entire cylinder. The ‘DP’ series or ‘Dual Port’ respectively has a belt driving four custom designed wheels, hence no tail shaft. Each drive end wheel makes continuous contact with the cylinder to spin it. On the non-drive end of both machines, the custom designed wheels cradle the cylinder.

Why did we choose this drive system? We wanted to bring to the World the 1st Dual Port Horizontal Rug Wringing Centrifuge. This proprietary design made it possible.

Alternatively, ring bearings for a large diameter spinning cylinder were reliant on lots of lubrication, bathing them in oil. The design involved an encasement, customary cast bearing housing, which supplied the oil and allowed it to circulate for cooling. See picture:

View attachment 678

The metal race ball or roller bearings constantly required lubrication and heat release to help prevent failure. This bearing design is traditionally found in other smaller horizontal centrifuges in Europe and Turkey. A manufacturer tried to use this large one, pictured here, only to find that the application could not hold up under the stress of rug spinning duty cycles. This big bearing, shown in the picture, was not engineered to take the rpm and constant stress for hours that is common with imbalanced loads in a horizontal rug wringing centrifuge.

Because of our innovative technology, we were awarded a US Patent in December 2011. Our motivation, in large part, had to do with maintenance. If, and when, a wheel needs replacement or maintenance, it is much easier, and economical, to do so with our design when compared to the expense of replacing a big expensive ring bearing with its oil reservoir casing. Inherent in the machines task is its continuous high speed spinning, unbalanced rug weight distribution pounding and exerting stress on the bearings as it goes through the duty cycles. This makes our machine design attractive to the consumer. Our custom wheels have adjustments and this sort of ring bearing and its housing do not.
 

Ken Snow

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Tom - we have a 3 man wash team, 2 on the wash side and 1 on the hang end. We also have 5-6 other full time laborers doing other activities such as dropping, fringe detailing, specialty stain removal etc. Plus we have Rug Care Consultants receiving rugs at our 5 Rug Care Centers, a Customer pick up and delivery crew, a store to store shuttle driver, repair staff etc. A plant like ours has virtually unlimited capacity for washing, the biggest challenge is storage while waiting for customers to pick them up. Having the other locations helps though and we are in the middle of some remodeling that will increase our production space.

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Dolly Llama

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In our ‘SP’ series or ‘Single Port’, the motor drives the tail shaft of the cylinder by means of a belt, and thus spins the entire cylinder. The ‘DP’ series or ‘Dual Port’ respectively has a belt driving four custom designed wheels, hence no tail shaft

forgive my ignorance , Tom
(I'm not a rug guy, but I am a "gear head/mechanical guy" so pret'near any equipment/machinery interests me)

does "dual port" means it loads from ether end??

Thanks


pee esss...I don't know you from Adam, but Irish fellows with bowties and a smile like that makes it hard NOT to like you :biggrin:


..L.T.A.
 

T Monahan

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Larry,

You are correct about Dual Port! You can load from either end. This has an advantage if a rug washing facility can really utilize it. Otherwise, the single port is fine. I recently put a single port in my shop since my centrifuge sits perpendicular to my wash pit/floor. Therefore, in my situation the other end of the machine could not easily be loaded. Hence, no need for me to have this dual port feature.

View attachment 679

I prefer Guinness. My mom's side is O'Brien and my Dad's side is Monahan. I do have Irish DNA!
 
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