ronald pantelas
Member
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2006
- Messages
- 314
The cost of cleaning chemicals is getting a little offensive. It is sort of like filling up your tank at the gas station. Ron
Chemical prices
- Thread starter ronald pantelas
- Start date
packfancjh
Member
A lot of the chem costs going up has to do with gas prices and the cost of production and raw materials going up. Gas prices rising affects more than the consumer. Manufacturing prices have gone up, shipping prices have gone up which means distributor prices go up. Unfortunately due to the fact that there are too many cleaners out there that use next to nothing to clean with that are charging next to nothing to clean makes it harder for you to raise your prices.
Farenheit251
Member
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2006
- Messages
- 732
Larry Cobb still hasn't raised his prices. I ordered two 45 lb buckets of powermax on the Mikey special for $95 each.
packfancjh
Member
Not all costs for all chems have gone up but I do know of quite a few that some of the components have almost doubled and even tripled in price.
KevinD
Member
BrianE said:
Even Larry has had to raise prices. The buckets were $85.95 back in February.
KevinD
Member
Shipping seems to be a real issue too.
I had to pay $31.00 in shipping for the last 5 gallon container shipped to me unless I was gouged.
I had to pay $31.00 in shipping for the last 5 gallon container shipped to me unless I was gouged.
John Olson
Member
Kevin depending on where it was shipped from you either got a GOOD deal or a BAD deal. Me shipping to NY for a 5gl pail would be closer to $40 before shipping discounts so $31 isn't bad.
As for Pricing the cleaners make considerbly high return per $ on a gallon of chemical then a manf or supplier and that is not to make light of the increases and the stress it puts on the owner operator who's budget is already very tight.
We do have programs to help such as our 25-50% shipping discounts on chems and free shipping on select tools. We also try to purchase Items in Bulk to recieve special pricing which we pass on when items are purchased in Bulk from us.
As for Pricing the cleaners make considerbly high return per $ on a gallon of chemical then a manf or supplier and that is not to make light of the increases and the stress it puts on the owner operator who's budget is already very tight.
We do have programs to help such as our 25-50% shipping discounts on chems and free shipping on select tools. We also try to purchase Items in Bulk to recieve special pricing which we pass on when items are purchased in Bulk from us.
Shawn Forsythe
RIP
Where we have seen the greatest impact is those powdered emulsifier products that use Sodium TripolyPhosphate as the principle alkaline builder. Typically these products are 35-60% STPP, and the raw material cost to manufactures have tripled this year on this one material alone.
The government subsidized price of STPP from China kept the costs of the material artificially low and stable for the last few years. When the subsidy suddenly was dropped in the first quarter, the STPP price jumped, or I should say corrected to true 2008 market values. The net result was an abrupt increase in price to all products that contain or use this commodity.
As John La Rue pointed out, the true cost of a chemical is the purchase price, less the value to diminish labor cost. but you will find that the that the cost per square foot in purchase price is small, even on the most expensive working product.
Here's the real worry with these price jumps.... That manufacturers will feel pressure to reduce costs to remain competitive. In doing so, they may choose to "adjust" the amount of, or replace altogether the STPP and use another alkaline builder. A popular alternative is Sodium Carbonate(Soda Ash). Soda ash is "dirt cheap". So, why doesn't everybody use Soda Ash instead? Well, in many powdered laundry detergents where use of phosphates are prohibited, they do. But the laundry detergent industry has a few things going for them, that our industry doesn't. First, the laundry industry doesn't have to deal with manually pre-mixing a concentrate chemical jug, as they use a much more diluted machine-agitated hot wash tub. This ensures that they have little problem with the difficulty in dissolving soda ash in water at their unique use concentrations. Soda Ash is quite difficult to dissolve in the concentrations we use in the truckmount chemical jug, especially with lukewarm water. Second, the laundry industry has a 30 year head start on formulating high liquid surfactant loading(weight percentage), on a powder detergent builder that is much less absorbent than STPP.
I have little doubt that a number of manufacturers will be substituting Soda Ash for STPP in their powder emulsifier formulations. At least short-term, this will not be the user's benefit. Some will rationalize the argument by saying that it is a course of action that has to be taken eventually, just like the consumer laundry detergent industry had to do, when phosphates were banned from those products in the 70's. They will reason that their action will put them ahead of those who wait to reformulate when/if it becomes mandatory for commercial/industrial products in the future.
The government subsidized price of STPP from China kept the costs of the material artificially low and stable for the last few years. When the subsidy suddenly was dropped in the first quarter, the STPP price jumped, or I should say corrected to true 2008 market values. The net result was an abrupt increase in price to all products that contain or use this commodity.
As John La Rue pointed out, the true cost of a chemical is the purchase price, less the value to diminish labor cost. but you will find that the that the cost per square foot in purchase price is small, even on the most expensive working product.
Here's the real worry with these price jumps.... That manufacturers will feel pressure to reduce costs to remain competitive. In doing so, they may choose to "adjust" the amount of, or replace altogether the STPP and use another alkaline builder. A popular alternative is Sodium Carbonate(Soda Ash). Soda ash is "dirt cheap". So, why doesn't everybody use Soda Ash instead? Well, in many powdered laundry detergents where use of phosphates are prohibited, they do. But the laundry detergent industry has a few things going for them, that our industry doesn't. First, the laundry industry doesn't have to deal with manually pre-mixing a concentrate chemical jug, as they use a much more diluted machine-agitated hot wash tub. This ensures that they have little problem with the difficulty in dissolving soda ash in water at their unique use concentrations. Soda Ash is quite difficult to dissolve in the concentrations we use in the truckmount chemical jug, especially with lukewarm water. Second, the laundry industry has a 30 year head start on formulating high liquid surfactant loading(weight percentage), on a powder detergent builder that is much less absorbent than STPP.
I have little doubt that a number of manufacturers will be substituting Soda Ash for STPP in their powder emulsifier formulations. At least short-term, this will not be the user's benefit. Some will rationalize the argument by saying that it is a course of action that has to be taken eventually, just like the consumer laundry detergent industry had to do, when phosphates were banned from those products in the 70's. They will reason that their action will put them ahead of those who wait to reformulate when/if it becomes mandatory for commercial/industrial products in the future.
bob vawter
Grassy Knoller
My Ghetto Juice has skyrocketed!
Duane Oxley
Moon Unit
Shawn Forsythe said:
Not THIS manufacturer.
CleanStreak and OneStep powder formulations contain STPP. The formulas for them have not changed in the last 2 years or so. And they will not be changed unless STPP becomes unavailable.
Cost may increase, as it has recently. But to date, pricing has been increased only about 10%. There is no current plan to raise our prices.
Bob Foster
Member
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2006
- Messages
- 8,870
TRUE RTU $$$$$ including shipping
G
Guest
Guest
I make my own; way cheaper than buying. 
Larry Cobb
Member
As a chemical manufacturer, we strive to hold prices on our products.
As Shawn mentioned, phosphates have jumped in price this year.
We do not like soda ash in any carpet cleaning products.
As petroleum increased, other raw materials increased in lock step.
Unfortunately, they have not followed the downturn in petroleum prices.
Cleaning performance per dollar, is the standard to compare cleaning compounds.
Larry Cobb
As Shawn mentioned, phosphates have jumped in price this year.
We do not like soda ash in any carpet cleaning products.
As petroleum increased, other raw materials increased in lock step.
Unfortunately, they have not followed the downturn in petroleum prices.
Cleaning performance per dollar, is the standard to compare cleaning compounds.
Larry Cobb
John Olson
Member
rjfdube said:I make my own; way cheaper than buying.
Can I see the MSDS sheets for the products you make?
Brian R
Member
As I have said before...
As prices of chems go up...so do mine.
Measure your chems...everytime... and you will save money.
Just like Obama said. :roll:
Chemicals are a small portion of my costs compared to advertising and even Gas for the van.
As long as the chem works...I am buying it and telling my customers about it...when I need to .
As prices of chems go up...so do mine.
Measure your chems...everytime... and you will save money.
Just like Obama said. :roll:
Chemicals are a small portion of my costs compared to advertising and even Gas for the van.
As long as the chem works...I am buying it and telling my customers about it...when I need to .
packfancjh
Member
John Olson" data-source="" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">John Olson said:rjfdube said:I make my own; way cheaper than buying.
Can I see the MSDS sheets for the products you make?
That's what I was thinking.
Shawn Forsythe
RIP
packfancjh said:John Olson" data-source="" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">John Olson said:rjfdube said:I make my own; way cheaper than buying.
Can I see the MSDS sheets for the products you make?
That's what I was thinking.
His product liability insurance costs must be awfully prohibitive.
Or maybe he is self-insuring?
Lee Stockwell
FOJL
Good old Liquid Tide with Bleach!!
Why not take advantage of the "laundry industry's 30 year head-start"??
Lee
Why not take advantage of the "laundry industry's 30 year head-start"??
Lee
TimP
Member
- Joined
- May 19, 2007
- Messages
- 4,055
BrianE said:
It was 85 last time I ordered....this time 95....
Shawn Forsythe
RIP
Lee Stockwell said:Good old Liquid Tide with Bleach!!
Why not take advantage of the "laundry industry's 30 year head-start"??
The "head start", to which I referred, pertained only to powdered products that had eliminated phosphorous, not liquids. Liquids quite often don't rely on the same builder chemistry, and never have.
Moreover, our industry's products target the nature of 5th generation nylon primarily, whereas even nylon is nearly insignificant in outerwear. Also, agitated bath immersion generally dictates a different paradigm than heated and pressurized extraction fluid in contact for mere seconds with pretreatment being the principle primary means of the emulsification.
renegade_cowboy
Member
Hey its cool right below the gas surcharge on the invoice just add a chemical surcharge too. :shock:
:mrgreen:
:mrgreen:
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