coffee spill

[Joel D]

Once in a while i will run into one i cant get out. I just had one and tried stain magic-A let dwell scrubbed then B scrubbed some more and got no improvement.

Is that just normal. Also is A the Hydrogen Peroxide equivalent and B is the reducer side?

I just got some reducer from Cobb. Are reducers known to get coffee out better?

Whenever i get coffee/pop spots that dont come out with normal cleaning nothing i try seems to help much.

If hp doesnt get it everything else ends up being a waste of time.

 

[sweendogg]

Re: coffe spill

Alright now pat attention here:

You need to classify stains that will not respond to cleaning into three categories... Organic, synthetic, and oh my god what did the customer do?!(bleached out spots fall into the third category)

Now regular black cofee is considered organic. This will have a hefty does of tannin as well as other ingredients as well. You'll have to break down the layers first and remove the excess. Acid side or Tannin spotter work very well at removing the bulk and on certain carpets you can remove a coffee stain completely with tannin spotters. After getting as much of the "spot" out you can work on the stain. Organic stains respond best to oxidizers. Oxidizers work best over a period of time. Stain Magic is no exception. Part A is a hefty oxidizer and part B is an accelerator that assists in the release of the oxygen. When you combine these two parts on a stain, you should ideally cover the stain to prevent the liquid from evaporating. Drying and evaporation will stop the reaction that needs to occur. Its best if you can let it dwell for up to 8 hours. I've yet to fail with this proedure on REAL cofee stains.

Now the thing about coffee is alot of people drink Decaf. Decaf does not naturally have the rich dark color associated with cofee so dyes are added to match the decaf color closer to real coffee. Synthetic dyes respond the best to a reducing agent. This is what Red 1 or Red Relief is. Its basically sodium metabisulfate and an accelerator. Just like any reducing agent, the reaction can be sped up by applying heat. This allows us to remove Kool Aid, markers and other dyes relatively quickly with no need to cover a spot for a prolonged time period. Oxidizers can also be boosted with heat to speed the process... HOWEVER!!!! you have a much much much higher risk of bleaching the carpet out completely by adding heat. So keep your heat for the reducer...

Most of the time, coffee is very hot when it gets spilled so you have a compounded issue because the coffee will readily penetrate the surface of the carpet and often times will find its way to the back of the carpet. Its always a good idea to flush or water claw a coffee spot to attempt to prevent wickback.

Also some of the confusion is in the fact that you see a lot of brown out spotters that double as a coffee spotter as well. These brown out spotters are sodium metabisulfate.. the same thing found in sythetic dye removers. the sodium metabisulfate work very well on cellulosic browning which is essentially what tanin dyes are. However, you'll find the most organic components will respond better to an oxdizing treatment.

 

[Jim Williams]

Re: coffe spill

Great info. from David above. I have had great success using Prochem's Tannin and Coffee remover. Great stuff, and will usually remove just about all the stain without using heat transfer.

 

[Joel D]

Re: coffe spill

thanks for the reply. No wonder im confused.

i just sprayed A+B covered it, told her about it and left.

I havent been doing an acid rinse lately, now im wondering if that would have helped somewhat.

red relief was right in my spotting kit and even read sodium metabisulfate to the customer but was hurrying to much and thought it was part B

i think i better print out your response

 

[Jamesh921]

Re: coffe spill

I think EVERYONE should print out that response. It was probably one of the best explanations of how to properly approach a difficult stain, and how to resolve it, that I've seen on these boards in a LONG time.

Big applause for David inserted here.

 

[sweendogg]

Despite the board dramas and tool wars, there are some good info on here, when you ask the right questions...... and we have time to get a responce typed out. Alot of what I've posted is available with a little searching in the gold mine as well as a lot of other great info. I've learned a hell of lot here and its nice to give back.

 

[Dolly Llama]

Re: coffe spill

Big applause for David inserted here.

The Sweendawg is a young CCing Jedi Knight destined for gUru status in ten years... 8)


..L.T.A.

 

[mirf]

Great information!!!

 

[sweendogg]

May the Swartz be with you!

 

[J Scott W]

I want to join everyone in saying that David provided some good information.

Something to add.
Oxidizers (Stain Magic, StainZONE, etc.) and reducers (Red Releif, RedZONE, etc.) and for that matter many other stain removers work best when applied to dry carpet. That is why it was once normal to do your spot removal before cleaning.

HWE has improved to the point that most of the spots and stains come out with cleaning and presprotting every spot would be a waste of time. So we do spot and stain removal after cleaning, when the carpet is damp (hopefully not wet).

But the stain remover needs to penetrate the fiber as deeply as what caused the problem. That hot coffee was original spilled on a dry carpet that absorbed a lot of the coffee.

If you apply the stain removal product to damp carpet, the water presnt does two things. First it dilutes you product somewhat. Second, and more importantly, the fiber is already full of moisture. It does not want to absorb any more. So the oxidizer or reducer stays mostly on the surface.

It would work much better if it reached the staining material! So if you know before you clean that a certain spot will require special treatment, do it before cleaning or use air movement and extraction to get the affected area as dry as reasonably possible after cleaning and before you apply that Stain Magic, StainZONe or whatever else.

 

[Jamesh921]

OK Scott, I guess that info was helpful too. So, insert gold clap here. !gotcha!

 

[Desk Jockey]

Great stuff guys!
8)

Going to print it off for my tech's to read!

 

[MrsCleaner]

That was a really excellent explanation. I've floated around a lot, and the business of Los Angeles carpet cleaners is quite an interesting market. I'm thinking of branching off to start my own business, and I know this will certainly be helpful to me.

I know I'm new here so forgive me if the answer is in another thread somewhere, but is there a favorite prevention/protection product of the members here?

 

[J Scott W]

I know I'm new here so forgive me if the answer is in another thread somewhere, but is there a favorite prevention/protection product of the members here?

If you want more folks to notice the question, it may be best to start a new thread.

I am a big fan of the Maxim line of protectors which I helped develop. They are the major line that includes both a flourochemical protector plus an acid dye blocker. similar to the stain protection provided at the mill such as DuP{ont's StainMaster.

There is Maxim Advanced Carpet Protector, Maxim Advanced Upholstery Protector and just announced at the Connections event a few days ago, New Maxim Advanced for Wool.

 

[Guest]

Hi Scott,
Congrats on the Maxim Advanced for Wool. Bridgepoint has made some big advances for wool rugs. We rug snobs thank you :-)
Barry O’Connell
www.OrientalRugTalk.com

 

[Larry Cobb]

Joel;

I have had lots of experience on coffee stains.

The most difficult were on wool carpet at American Airlines corporate headquarters.

The DC FiberBrite reducing powder performed the best on those stains.

The nice thing about the FiberBrite is that you can use many different dilutions.

On the most difficult stains, you can sprinkle the powder . . .

and spray with very HOT water, as you agitate with a bone scraper.

Let the board know how the FiberBrite works.

http://ccs5.com/zen/index.php?main_...9112ec64027cc2f0d23caa61af&keyword=fiberbrite

Larry