Cotton Sofa too White after Browning Treatment

[Chet]

We cleaned a second hand sofa with 100% cotton Brocade fabric, for a client and the welting on the bottom cushion browned out. Our technicians brought it back to our shop and we used CTI Browning Treatment. We removed the browning from the welting but had to spray the whole cushion to keep it even. It lightened it up a lot, I figured we would just spray the entire frame of the sofa and she would be delighted.
She's insisting that the sofa should be off white. I always thought Browning Treatment only took cotton to it's original color and didn't bleach it out. If Browning treatment makes it too light, is it correctable?
I know we should have qualified further, but it was a second hand sofa and I thought she would be happy if we made it lighter. Never assume anything.

 

[Desk Jockey]

No unfortunately it bleached it out and no way to correct it. If you must replace it, try to workout a second hand price.

We had a divan brought in that a drycleaner over whitened a stained cushion. It was supposed to be a beige but they bleached it pure white. We couldn't do anything to even them up. It was snow white and had turned the wool crewl work a blueish purple.

 

[GeneMiller]

It's fabric and it can be dyed but at your own risk. Personally I'd just return it. She now owns a clean white sofa the discoloration that made it look off white gone.

Gene

 

[Mikey P]

What did CTI say?

 

[dealtimeman]

Is it an even white?

 

[Brian H]

Being that is was second hand, is she sure the original color off white? Is is possible that the "off white" appearance was due to soils, environmental issues, etc?

Open up a cushion and look at the fabric inside to get a better idea on what the original color actually is.

 

[The Great Oz]

The welting likely browned because there's a jute cord inside, a reclean and force dry could have been all that was needed to fix. Hindsight, sorry. Stark white furniture is pretty rare, so it likely was off-white, which is why we never use bleaches on furniture. A shade or two lighter and it no longer matches the rug/draperies/accent pillows...

Anything you can do now to try and rectify the problem will take a lot of time and effort - and still risk having the result rejected by the sofa owner. If she can use the sofa in the present condition, offer an "appearance allowance" by reducing the cleaning fee or not charging at all.

The jute cord indicates a pretty old piece, so there are two ways this can go if she says she can't use it: It's old and nondescript - you can buy it at a nondescript price; It's a name-brand or antique - you pay for reupholstery. If you pay for upholstery, make sure you keep control of the job. Once a designer is involved all costs double.

 

[Hoody]

Being that is was second hand, is she sure the original color off white? Is is possible that the "off white" appearance was due to soils, environmental issues, etc?

Open up a cushion and look at the fabric inside to get a better idea on what the original color actually is.

I'm with Brian on this one. Depending on how it was stored, or the environment it was in the cellulose in the cotton can still slightly yellow over time. Exposure to too much humidity can do this. However if the original color on the inside turns out to be the color you've now presented her, you might have some more cleaning to do.

I screwed up a custom designer set of linen dining room chairs once by trying to remove all of the staining. The color was suppose to be "egg shell" but I made it snow white.... with no stains. We had to take them back to the designer and have them re-upholstered.

 

[Paul Demers]

Chet,
Thanks for sharing your experience, it reminds us all to be very careful when cleaning natural cotton fabric. I usually clean cotton upholstery with an acid side cleaner, towel dry with microfiber cloths after extracting, especially the welting, and speed dry with fans.

Knock on wood, but I have not had any issues yet. But I do charge at least $149 for a synthetic sofa, and more for 100 percent cotton so I can take my time and do the job right. I'll let the guys that charge $79.00 per sofa pay for furniture replacement.

 

[Larry Cobb]

I thought you might have used the chemical without enough dilution . . .

but the CTI directions say use without dilution . . .

I would have to defer to CTI . . .

What did they say for correction . . .

 

[Chet]

Thanks everyone for your replies.
I did some testing today to confirm if Browning Treatment can remove color on 100% off white cotton with some sample books we have. Yes Browning treatment does lighten it quite a bit. I didn't unzip a cushion yet, but I will tomorrow, just for my own piece of mind. I agree that good extraction on the welts and speed drying with air movers which we have several on every truck would have prevented this situation and that is what tomorrows meeting will be about with our technicians, along with good qualifying communication, proper use of waivers, good before and after picture taking, and of course my misconception that Browning Treatment doesn't bleach it only removes browning.
I did call the customer today to let them know it was not reversible. And I did inform them that I would pay what they paid for the sofa at the second hand store, so if they're honest I should be out $150- to $200.00 I will get a receipt if it seems too high.
We charge plenty to properly qualify, pre-test and to properly clean an item like this. I believe we charged $250 to clean this fixed back sofa.
What I need to do is more training of our technicians, and follow up to make sure they know what they should be doing. luckily this was a second hand sofa and not an heirloom piece.

 

[Chet]

Larry, they just said to rinse it and maybe I would get lucky. Not so of course, and I hardly ever use Browning treatment, but I had purchased this gallon to have on hand and had just recently used it to fix a browning problem on a white cotton sectional. It worked wonders on that piece so we tried it on this one without pre-testing inconspicuously as we know we should have. As you must know it takes a few hours for the treatment to fully dry and show it's results. When I was testing it today, if I dried it too quickly with a hairdryer it wouldn't remove color, but if I let it dry naturally it removed a lot of color. If I knew how to post pictures you would be surprised how white the cushion is.

 

[Desk Jockey]

All fabrics are different and as you've found they react differently.
Welting can be a problem on older upholstery, they use cardboard and even worse colored scraps of fabric. I prefer to towel it with a neutral shampoo and not HWE it at all. What upholstery tool were they using?

 

[Chet]

 

[Desk Jockey]

Wow that's how different the drycleaner left the cushion. they got carried away with a spill, which they did remove. However in the processed changed the color so it didn't match the other cushions or base.

 

[ruff]

Wow, that's impressive.
I would think (hope) that a white cotton cleaner mix, soaked into a towel and rubbed in with that towel only on the piping, would have removed the browning without discoloration.

Though one of the issues with piping is that they get the worst soiling and deterioration + it gets ground in day in and day out. So many times just lightly cleaning them does not get the job done and rubbing them too hard, can further deteriorate the piping.

Most will not brown out though. You just got lucky

 

[Chet]

We tried to just spray the welting it is very weak and worn so we didn't want to agitate it any more than we had to. We tried to protect the surrounding material, but it leached out and whitened the area around the welting. So we tried to blend it in and as you can see, ultimately whitened the entire cushion. We use a CFR tool, but with old welting you need to gently extract every bit of welting and speed dry the welting. The air mover needs to be concentrated on the welting.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

There is not much that I can add Chet, other than you have been given great advice thus far. Your settlement offer is a fair one, and in the end you are right that you are very fortunate that it was a second hand piece.

What happened with the welt cord is normal, as it absorbs more water than the rest of the fabric, and since the rest is dryer, it absorbs the extra moisture out of the welt cord during the drying process, and with it the reducing agent that caused over whitening of the fabric.

In most cases this causes water stains around the welt cord, and nothing more. Sadly, in your case much more happened.

In the future just be sure to make a note on your inspection sheet or work order than any process used to remove browning or tannin stains from off white fabric can create a "brighter white" appearance.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Wow, that's impressive.
I would think (hope) that a white cotton cleaner mix, soaked into a towel and rubbed in with that towel only on the piping, would have removed the browning without discoloration.

No Ofer that is what we do as a preventative not a corrective measure. Once water stained you have few options. In general a little lightening isn't noticeable but yes if you continue to work on the area then it becomes lighter than the surrounding area.

 

[Mikey P]

am I missing something?

looks to me like the cushion cover went through the wash with bleach or oxy clean



great photo for my blog to show the risk of cleaning covers in a machine..

 

[Brian H]

Thanks everyone for your replies.
I did some testing today to confirm if Browning Treatment can remove color on 100% off white cotton with some sample books we have. Yes Browning treatment does lighten it quite a bit. I didn't unzip a cushion yet, but I will tomorrow, just for my own piece of mind. I agree that good extraction on the welts and speed drying with air movers which we have several on every truck would have prevented this situation and that is what tomorrows meeting will be about with our technicians, along with good qualifying communication, proper use of waivers, good before and after picture taking, and of course my misconception that Browning Treatment doesn't bleach it only removes browning.
I did call the customer today to let them know it was not reversible. And I did inform them that I would pay what they paid for the sofa at the second hand store, so if they're honest I should be out $150- to $200.00 I will get a receipt if it seems too high.
We charge plenty to properly qualify, pre-test and to properly clean an item like this. I believe we charged $250 to clean this fixed back sofa.
What I need to do is more training of our technicians, and follow up to make sure they know what they should be doing. luckily this was a second hand sofa and not an heirloom piece.

When you offer a settlement, make sure to clarify who owns the sofa when it's all done. If you pay her for the replacement of the sofa, you own it and it might have salvage value.

When we have had issues in the past, I have used the damaged piece as a bargaining tool. It's not like I want to keep the piece, I just use it to gain a concession. I might decrease the amount of the settlement if they wanted to keep the piece to use. Maybe they can put a slip cover on it and use it in the basement or give to a family member, etc. Even if you don't get anything for the piece, you look better by giving it to them. I have had a time or two though when dealing with VERY unreasonable people that I wouldn't let them keep the old piece. I brought it back and threw it in the dumpster just so couldn't get any use out of it.

 

[Desk Jockey]

We see that a lot with fire damaged contents. They want both replacement money and the item. Often the insurance company will let them buy back at a fraction of what they just paid replacement for.

 

[ruff]

No Ofer that is what we do as a preventative not a corrective measure. Once water stained you have few options. In general a little lightening isn't noticeable but yes if you continue to work on the area then it becomes lighter than the surrounding area.

I wouldn't necessarily think so. The white cotton cleaner, just like removing the browning of the seed of the cotton, may remove the welt browning as well. And if rubbed in carefully with a towel, it is not likely to cause any issues with surrounding area. Again, it all depends on the extent of damage and what actually caused the "browning". It also takes time to correct, just like Haitian cotton that browns as you clean and lightens up as it dries. On the other hand, some fabrics are super reactive and nothing helps.

And yes, Richard, preventive measures are always a good idea.

I found the PMF inner jet tool to be the best for piping, as you can limit the cleaning pass to the welt alone and leave it very dry with multiple dry passes. You do not clean perpendicular to welt, just the opening directly and only on it, and clean back and forth. The other tools, do not allow you that luxury.

The piping is always a big issue, as they usually look the worse and have the most ground in dirt which is hardest to remove and may require extra agitation (yet is most likely to be deteriorated) . And if the rest of the sofa looks great and the piping is still dirty or grungy, they stick out even worse than before the cleaning.

Written and signed notes of preexisting conditions and good communication as per expectations/results are always your best friend.

 

[Desk Jockey]

General purpose spotters like Avenge work well on the cord without leaving a residue. Again check the fabrics because some naturals don't like anything.

 

[ruff]

General purpose spotters like 'Avenge', will and do leave residue, only of a different kind, and will not counter act browning. They will work if they don't reach the filling material of piping and unless the browning is a result of high alkalinity (unlikely) they will cause browning due to wicking (again if reached filling material).

General purpose spotters are a detergent with additives and the other is an acid side cleaner with sodium bisulfite. The sodium bisulfite will turn into a white powder that will be vacuumed out and will not cause re-soiling. It will however, substantially reduce the chance of browning.

Yes, some naturals are touchy, it also has to do with the way the fabric was dyed. Testing in an inconspicuous area, is always advisable.

 

[Chet]

All being said, we should have, could have, trying to be optimistic about this, a inexpensive learning experience. By the way the cushion cover was never removed, "Browning Treatment" Lightened it as pictured, only sprayed on. I learned a lesson, (Browning treatments can cause a lot of color loss. I didn't know this before hand and I've been in the business for over 30 years), I always figured the lighter color was the original color before the cotton oxidized. The good thing is I can learn something new every day. By the way the customer originally told my technician she paid $50.00 for sofa and now it's $350.00 (she has to look herself in the mirror in the morning). I feel ok, my staff will be more careful explaining pre-existing conditions, taking better before pictures and documenting and qualifying, ( I also found out from technician that welts were slightly brown before cleaning), he is either lying or he didn't document? For now I will assume he didn't document and hold him accountable in the future.
Brian, I should have read your post before settling, they get the sofa back so they can have it recovered and I paid for part of it. I know I got scammed on the price, this sofa has a rip along the back and no one would have ever paid more than $100 bucks for it to begin with.
Thanks again everyone for your input., Chet

 

[Desk Jockey]

don't sweat it. You actually got off very cheap. A lesson learned but one that could have easily been $1200-$1500.00.

Sit them down and go over new cleaning procedure for welting and cord on natural fibers.

 

[ruff]

Yep. A bummer.
But actually a cheap yet valuable lesson. Will probably save you much more than that in the future.

 

[The Great Oz]

You did fine Chet. This is a situation that could have turned ugly if you worked too hard to whittle the price down.


I've noticed that chemical manufacturers seem to be sneaking more and more oxidizers into formerly fabric-safe products, so you have to re-check things you used to be able to rely on.

 

[SamIam]

Ok you wimps he's already screwed take the cushion mix up a batch of tea dilute it in a bucket and soak the cushion let it dry then reclean you'll never match it but it would be fun to try.


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