Did I buy a f#*%king lemon?

[Anthony E]

To anyone who hasn’t seen what I bought, I recently purchased a 2nd gen El Diablo with 27hp engine & diesel burner with >350 hours. It looks like it’s in pristine condition (you can see pictures in my “new to the business” thread) but I keep running into problems with it.

First, the pressure gauge isn’t showing my psi unless I’m holding the trigger of a tool. Is this normal, will I have to run my hose back outside and adjust the psi any time I switch out a tool?

Second, now I was testing out my new ss upholstery tool and I lost pressure completely, and was getting a small leak at the quick connect. So I went back out and was adjusting the pressure and still nothing. I turned off the burner and heard a small pop and then the pressure would come back. Turned the burner on, pop, and the pressure stopped. Did it again and some white smoke came out of the diesel exhaust so I shut the machine off.

Wtf is going on with my machine? Help haha. I’m trying to stay positive here but this is just unbelievable

 

[Cleanworks]

To anyone who hasn’t seen what I bought, I recently purchased a 2nd gen El Diablo with 27hp engine & diesel burner with >350 hours. It looks like it’s in pristine condition (you can see pictures in my “new to the business” thread) but I keep running into problems with it.

First, the pressure gauge isn’t showing my psi unless I’m holding the trigger of a tool. Is this normal, will I have to run my hose back outside and adjust the psi any time I switch out a tool?

Second, now I was testing out my new ss upholstery tool and I lost pressure completely, and was getting a small leak at the quick connect. So I went back out and was adjusting the pressure and still nothing. I turned off the burner and heard a small pop and then the pressure would come back. Turned the burner on, pop, and the pressure stopped. Did it again and some white smoke came out of the diesel exhaust so I shut the machine off.

Wtf is going on with my machine? Help haha. I’m trying to stay positive here but this is just unbelievable

Diesel burners aren't suitable for running low flow upholstery tools. Not enough flow for the burner to turn on. You need to use a tool that has a bypass to keep solution flowing. It will also keep the solution hot all the time. Not unusual for some machines to read pressure only the trigger is pulled. All depends on how it's plumbed. 2 of my trucks read the static pressure (at rest) one only reads when the trigger is pulled. You always want to adjust the pressure to suit the tool. Upholstery tools need anywhere from 50 psi-300 psi, depending on the make and function.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

I made a solution recycle line for big upholstery jobs. A version similar to the Kleenrite recirculating upholstery tool.

Solution comes into a Tee just before the tool. A small adjustable flow goes out the other side of the Tee back to the solution tank allowing proper pressure to the tool at maximum heat.

I used another section of my regular solution hose to go back to the fresh tank. A little more to set up but often worth it on difficult upholstery jobs.

 

[Anthony E]

Thank you fellas for the insight here on my ss tool. Ok but the BIG question, why is my pressure completely shutting off on the TM when I turn the burner on? And what was with the excessive white smoke that poured out of the exhaust? To be more clear, I turned the burner on, lost water completely. Turned it off and got water back. I flipped the switch a couple more times to make sure that’s what was causing me to lose my pressure and then the white smoke came out.

 

[Cleanworks]

Thank you fellas for the insight here on my ss tool. Ok but the BIG question, why is my pressure completely shutting off on the TM when I turn the burner on? And what was with the excessive white smoke that poured out of the exhaust? To be more clear, I turned the burner on, lost water completely. Turned it off and got water back. I flipped the switch a couple more times to make sure that’s what was causing me to lose my pressure and then the white smoke came out.

Make sure you have water flowing first, then turn the burner on. Trigger the wand on and off while you're standing beside the truck. The burner should come on when you pull the trigger. Make sure your wand is at least a 6 flow. If it doesn't work, you may have a defective flow switch. Take it to a dealer and have it checked out and have them go over it with you so you know what you can and can't do.

 

[Anthony E]

Make sure you have water flowing first, then turn the burner on. Trigger the wand on and off while you're standing beside the truck. The burner should come on when you pull the trigger. Make sure your wand is at least a 6 flow. If it doesn't work, you may have a defective flow switch. Take it to a dealer and have it checked out and have them go over it with you so you know what you can and can't do.

Awesome thanks. Newbie question, what’s a 6 flow? I bought a 12” 1.5 dev wand

 

[Cleanworks]

Awesome thanks. Newbie question, what’s a 6 flow? I bought a 12” 1.5 dev wand

When we talk about flow, it means the total combination of the jets on your wand. Your dev wand should be a 6 flow, meaning when you look at the numbers on your jets, they should end in .15 example 11015. the 15 times 4 jets equals a 6 flow. .15 plus .15 equals 3. 4 jets equal 6 etc.

 

[Andy]

First, the pressure gauge isn’t showing my psi unless I’m holding the trigger of a tool.

It is a plumbing issue with the pressure regulator. Can't explain how but you need to remove the unloader.

 

[DAT]

When we talk about flow, it means the total combination of the jets on your wand. Your dev wand should be a 6 flow, meaning when you look at the numbers on your jets, they should end in .15 example 11015. the 15 times 4 jets equals a 6 flow. .15 plus .15 equals 3. 4 jets equal 6 etc.

@Anthony E Also determines gpm at psi. More flow, more water droplets. Theres a chart you can refer to for this in the resource to set your psi.

 

[Steve Lawrence]

Welcome to the world of TM maintenance and tweaking to get it to work ok.

(BTW, pressure gauges often won't show anything until a load is put on them. When you don't demand solution your unloader routs the constant pressure back to the pump therefore your gauge shows no reading.)

 

[FB7777]

Every time I read these threads one of my Butlers gets a wet and sloppy

 

[Cleanworks]

Not

Every time I read these threads one of my Butlers gets a wet and sloppy

View attachment 99743
[/QUOTE nothing beats reliability.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

We are looking at a Butler that had it's hx removed and replaced with a burner system...why in the world? If we get it we have a couple of Graham HX to put back.

 

[FB7777]

We are looking at a Butler that had it's hx removed and replaced with a burner system...why in the world? If we get it we have a couple of Graham HX to put back.

I can see why they did it honestly. I would never order a Butler without the MAX Heat... doesn’t maintain above 180 without it , and in winters it drops even lower depending on flow

drop In the HX but you may want to keep the burner when necessary

 

[Zee]

Thank you fellas for the insight here on my ss tool. Ok but the BIG question, why is my pressure completely shutting off on the TM when I turn the burner on? And what was with the excessive white smoke that poured out of the exhaust? To be more clear, I turned the burner on, lost water completely. Turned it off and got water back. I flipped the switch a couple more times to make sure that’s what was causing me to lose my pressure and then the white smoke came out.

Are you sure, you turned off the burner and not the cat pump?
They're identical switches (or at least they used to be)

The white smoke is, incomplete fuel burn. You probably had too much diesel injected... but the water flow switch underneath the burner didn't slide and wasn't firing at the right time. With an upholstery tool, you need to lower your pressure and your burner may or may not have enough water flow to make the flowswitch fire up the burner.

 

[Nomad74]

drop In the HX but you may want to keep the burner when necessary

You never know when the mood may hit you for a barbecue.

 

[Zee]

Oh and BTW, get familiar with the flow switch under the burner...pronto!!

If you don't know what and how that thing is doing, then at least get an insurance policy that has enough coverage for a van destroyed or worse...a customer's house destroyed.


That sinister flow switch is so sensitive that it can get stuck with tiny particles in the water (especially if you're running emulsifiers)
Once it is stuck on the on position, your diesel burner will be firing and heating even when you don't have water flowing through the system. I hope you understand what the problem is with that. First, your pressure will rise until it becomes too much and your gauge fails and your burner will explode your heater coil...which hopefully will then extinguish the fire though...

You need to have a very regular descaling maintenance so your system is clean. That way your flow switch functions properly. And even then, you might have jobs where your water will get overheated and you will have to reach under the burner and pull the flow switch apart to clean it and free it up.



Learn how the unit sounds when running properly and learn what it sounds like, when the burner is on rumbling and when it's not. It could save your business. Listen to your machine and run out fast when you hear the rumble...

 

[scotty747]

You can get a flow switch that uses a microprosser instead of a reed and magnet. More reliable on low flow but wont last as long like all electronics in a warm van. I just got a new unloader with a built in pressure switch im going to try out. I also plumb a filter in just before the flow switch to keep any crap out that will keep it stuck on. Better to slow flow and not have it fire, than have it stuck on.

 

[Anthony E]

Welcome to the world of TM maintenance and tweaking to get it to work ok.

(BTW, pressure gauges often won't show anything until a load is put on them. When you don't demand solution your unloader routs the constant pressure back to the pump therefore your gauge shows no reading.)

Ok thank you. So now I know exactly what the unloader does, new question, is it necessary for the machine to run properly? If I were to remove it would it cause me trouble in any way?

 

[Anthony E]

Are you sure, you turned off the burner and not the cat pump?
They're identical switches (or at least they used to be)

The white smoke is, incomplete fuel burn. You probably had too much diesel injected... but the water flow switch underneath the burner didn't slide and wasn't firing at the right time. With an upholstery tool, you need to lower your pressure and your burner may or may not have enough water flow to make the flowswitch fire up the burner.

Oh yea I’m positive, haha they’re identical switches but they’re both labeled (burner on the left, pump on the right) ok I see what you’re saying about the upholstery tool too. But I ran my ss tool at 400psi and that’s what I run the hf sprayer at with the burner on and had no issues with that.

I may have needed to drastically lower the psi on the ss tool though, cause it was spraying out pretty far and I thought it’s supposed to be an entirely contained flow tool. I read somewhere on the board to keep the rpms low for upholstery so I kept it at 2k, but right on the machine it says must operate at 3k rpms. Idk, I still have a ton to learn about everything haha

 

[Anthony E]

Oh and BTW, get familiar with the flow switch under the burner...pronto!!

If you don't know what and how that thing is doing, then at least get an insurance policy that has enough coverage for a van destroyed or worse...a customer's house destroyed.


That sinister flow switch is so sensitive that it can get stuck with tiny particles in the water (especially if you're running emulsifiers)
Once it is stuck on the on position, your diesel burner will be firing and heating even when you don't have water flowing through the system. I hope you understand what the problem is with that. First, your pressure will rise until it becomes too much and your gauge fails and your burner will explode your heater coil...which hopefully will then extinguish the fire though...

You need to have a very regular descaling maintenance so your system is clean. That way your flow switch functions properly. And even then, you might have jobs where your water will get overheated and you will have to reach under the burner and pull the flow switch apart to clean it and free it up.



Learn how the unit sounds when running properly and learn what it sounds like, when the burner is on rumbling and when it's not. It could save your business. Listen to your machine and run out fast when you hear the rumble...

Ok, I’m going to a TM specialist in my city so I’ll ask him about the flow switch cause idk anything about it. It’s all gibberish to me at the moment. But my wife set up a solid policy for the van and damage, we’re covered up to $2mil for damages but hopefully that never needs to be used. I thought this thread was gonna die out pretty quick haha but this was the kind of solid info I was looking for, so thanks everyone.

 

[Cleanworks]

Oh yea I’m positive, haha they’re identical switches but they’re both labeled (burner on the left, pump on the right) ok I see what you’re saying about the upholstery tool too. But I ran my ss tool at 400psi and that’s what I run the hf sprayer at with the burner on and had no issues with that.

I may have needed to drastically lower the psi on the ss tool though, cause it was spraying out pretty far and I thought it’s supposed to be an entirely contained flow tool. I read somewhere on the board to keep the rpms low for upholstery so I kept it at 2k, but right on the machine it says must operate at 3k rpms. Idk, I still have a ton to learn about everything haha

The unloader controls the pressure. If you eliminate your pump will operate at maximum pressure until something blows. If you run the machine below it's recommend rpm, it won't make enough voltage to fire the burner. You want to adjust the pressure to suit your tools and low flow tools like upholstery tools, must have a bypass to keep the water flowing when the trigger is off.

 

[Anthony E]

The unloader controls the pressure. If you eliminate your pump will operate at maximum pressure until something blows. If you run the machine below it's recommend rpm, it won't make enough voltage to fire the burner. You want to adjust the pressure to suit your tools and low flow tools like upholstery tools, must have a bypass to keep the water flowing when the trigger is off.

It’s starting to sound like running low rpm could have been the cause of all my issues..

 

[Cleanworks]

It’s starting to sound like running low rpm could have been the cause of all my issues..

We used to have similar unit sold here and guys would always run into problems cleaning upholstery. You always have to run at the recommended rpm. Diesel burners are great for large flow tools, lots of heat but suck with low flow tools. Your engine is providing the necessary voltage for the burner. You may want to leave the burner off when cleaning upholstery and purchase an electric inline heater that you bring into the house.

 

[Hack Attack]

Oh and BTW, get familiar with the flow switch under the burner...pronto!!

If you don't know what and how that thing is doing, then at least get an insurance policy that has enough coverage for a van destroyed or worse...a customer's house destroyed.


That sinister flow switch is so sensitive that it can get stuck with tiny particles in the water (especially if you're running emulsifiers)
Once it is stuck on the on position, your diesel burner will be firing and heating even when you don't have water flowing through the system. I hope you understand what the problem is with that. First, your pressure will rise until it becomes too much and your gauge fails and your burner will explode your heater coil...which hopefully will then extinguish the fire though...

You need to have a very regular descaling maintenance so your system is clean. That way your flow switch functions properly. And even then, you might have jobs where your water will get overheated and you will have to reach under the burner and pull the flow switch apart to clean it and free it up.



Learn how the unit sounds when running properly and learn what it sounds like, when the burner is on rumbling and when it's not. It could save your business. Listen to your machine and run out fast when you hear the rumble...

flow switches..

although cant deliver anywhere near the heat pressure and flow of my big burner, it's why my backup LG is not a backup anymore..

 

[Ron K]

You could also use a warm up/hot water hose just flowing on the ground so that you have hot water for the upholstery tool. Steamway had one real easy to make yourself I don't have one anymore maybe someone could share a picture.
Also You really need a manual and some lessons.
Steamway had "Henry" he could diagnose anything over the phone.

 

[Bob Savage]

Diesel burners aren't suitable for running low flow upholstery tools. Not enough flow for the burner to turn on. You need to use a tool that has a bypass to keep solution flowing. It will also keep the solution hot all the time. Not unusual for some machines to read pressure only the trigger is pulled. All depends on how it's plumbed. 2 of my trucks read the static pressure (at rest) one only reads when the trigger is pulled. You always want to adjust the pressure to suit the tool. Upholstery tools need anywhere from 50 psi-300 psi, depending on the make and function.

That is due to the flow switch on them.

Get an ST-6 flow switch and it will fire with house water pressure!

 

[Cleanworks]

That is due to the flow switch on them.

Get an ST-6 flow switch and it will fire with house water pressure!

Pressure is fine but it needs flow to fire.

 

[Zee]

Oh yea I’m positive, haha they’re identical switches but they’re both labeled (burner on the left, pump on the right) ok I see what you’re saying about the upholstery tool too. But I ran my ss tool at 400psi and that’s what I run the hf sprayer at with the burner on and had no issues with that.

I may have needed to drastically lower the psi on the ss tool though, cause it was spraying out pretty far and I thought it’s supposed to be an entirely contained flow tool. I read somewhere on the board to keep the rpms low for upholstery so I kept it at 2k, but right on the machine it says must operate at 3k rpms. Idk, I still have a ton to learn about everything haha

No you don't want to run a motor like that, on such low rpms.


These air-cooled engines need the optimum rpm (in your case 3000rpm) to be able to pull in enough air to cool itself sufficiently.

You can turn down your psi for an upholstery tool but not your engine rpm.

 

[Kenny Hayes]

I can see why they did it honestly. I would never order a Butler without the MAX Heat... doesn’t maintain above 180 without it , and in winters it drops even lower depending on flow

drop In the HX but you may want to keep the burner when necessary

All this time I thought a Butler was better than a Bane!