Discussion on cleaning methods

[Carbonated Carpet Woman]

I would be interested in hearing some specifics, pros and cons, of some of the methods that are currently being used to clean residential carpets.

I think we all agree that household carpet acts as a dust and allergen filter. The pad underneath serves primarily as a trap for larger particulate matter (sand) that has worked its way down through the carpet.

Regular vacuuming, with a quality machine, removes a substantial amount of dry soils embedded in the carpet fiber but does little, if anything, for what has passed through to the pad beneath.

When you clean a residential carpet, what is your primary goal? What is your secondary goal? I know dry times are still a big issue as well as recurring stains.

How would you tackle a twelve year old light beige carpet in a house with five children, two cats and a dog, that hasn't been professionally cleaned in several years? Oh, and has a half empty can of soapy suds aerosol carpet spotter sitting on the kitchen counter.

I'm zipping on my "thick skin" suit now ....

 

[Mikey P]

a thorough pre vacuuming..

a pre spray with a degreasing and oxidizing element..

a good methodical truckmounted flushing with and acid rinse and a Rotary Extractor making sure to keep an eye on the site tube to be on the look out for spotter residue, which would get extra flushing..

lots of dry passes..

groom and blow dry..


50% or more of our jobs are as exactly as you described.


How do you go about it?

 

[Desk Jockey]

a twelve year old light beige carpet in a house with five children, two cats and a dog, that hasn't been professionally cleaned in several years

Replace it! Its seen a good life, 12-years.

If they couldn't afford replacement. Vacuum "Ron Werner" style, HWE with a rotary extractor.

 

[hogjowl]

I like your product. I will be ordering some more. It has a place in my business.

But, not for restorative cleanings on residential carpet.

 

[Mikey P]

gee thanks Marty, you've rubbed off on Tom.

 

[Mikey P]

Tom don't you have a trade show speech you should be brushing up on instead of running off women here?

 

[Carbonated Carpet Woman]

Seriously, I just got on your products website. you have been in the carpet cleaning business since 1985 and you are asking the above questions.

We have indeed been in the carpet cleaning business since 1985 and I am asking these questions because the industry is a moving target. We have used basically only one or two methods in all this time and have been somewhat removed from what's going on with other methods which is why I am interested in what's going on out there. I know how WE would clean this carpet but I wanted to hear what's being used by everyone else.

What kind of complete bio would you like?

 

[Carbonated Carpet Woman]

I might say that what we have learned in the past 30 years in this industry is that the best ideas and innovation come from those who are actually out there doing the work. It's the independent, who prefers to work for himself, that knows what's going on - what works and what doesn't. If someone can understand what others are doing/using and find a better, faster, cheaper way to do it, that is something that benefits everyone. An open mind never killed anyone (I don't think so, anyway).

 

[hogjowl]

Seriously, I just got on your products website. you have been in the carpet cleaning business since 1985 and you are asking the above questions.

If you want to sell us juice just buy some add space. Send Mike some product to try and wait for a review and possible endorsement.

Are we going to be quoted for a sales ad?

ADD value then people will buy.

How about a complete bio.

Glad you zipped up

Don't pay any attention to Thomas. He's wound a bit tight.

Ask any questions you want.

Most of us are big boys and understand that everybody here is selling SOMETHING.

 

[Mikey P]

Reita, let me ask you this..


Being a past provider of an "Alternative" method, Im sure most of your new clients were calling because the last provider of the "Industry Standard" did a rush job and "over wetted" the carpet and most likely caused wicking and or browning, correct?

How did you use this opportunity to your benefit?

Did you blame the poor results on the method in general or the lack of care or education in the prior cleaner?

 

[Carbonated Carpet Woman]

Yes, Mike, we got a lot of "Please, come fix my carpet!" calls. And you are correct, most often the problem was the technician who was disinterested in his performance, throwing any chemical he could at the problem, resulting in over wetting, wicking, and browning. We would try not to blame or berate the former cleaning company, but instead tried to educate the customer as to why we were different. We were always able to leave them happy with our work, and stunned with how good their carpets looked.

In keeping with my original post, our premise has always been that the carpet is a dirt and allergen filter and the pad underneath is the trap. Good vacuuming will remove nearly all of the loose dirt from the carpet. But, the heavier particulates that fall through to the pad underneath are impossible to remove 100% without removing the carpet altogether. The idea that you can clean the pad underneath the carpet by flooding and then suctioning the resulting slurry through the carpet seems counter-intuitive; anyone who has tried to clean mud from the surface of a carpet knows it's better to let it dry, and then vacuum the loose dirt away. Also, if you over wet the pad, it acts like a damp sponge under the carpet, prolonging the dry time immeasurably. Our cleaner and method thoroughly penetrated the carpet fiber and cleaned it, but with minimal effect on the pad, resulting in extremely fast dry times.

Do we think it's the ONLY cleaner and method that should be used? Absolutely not! Do we think that every technician should have more than one tool at his disposal? You bet!

 

[Desk Jockey]

Rieta proper HWE should not wet the carpet cushion and your statement about the pad capturing the soil sounds plausible, in reality it isn't.

We process multiple water damage losses a week. We see lots of carpet cushion and its never mud. Well, unless its a ground water flood anyway.

The majority of dry soil not removed during vacumming or cleaning is going to dead end in the backing of the carpet.

 

[hogjowl]

Yeah, you're getting carried away with your statements concerning the padding.

Even PadPrick didn't go THAT far.

 

[truckmount girl]

REITA!! Hi!

I don't know if you all know who Reita is and what she has done, but I do. She beat Chem-Who in a patent case a few years before ours. You will find few more intelligent and articulate - ballsy and really works in the business.

Reita's my hero as she was a huge help and encouragement when we first got sued. She clued me in on getting a PACER account and what I needed to do.

Reita I hope you and yours are doing well and that your business(es) are thriving.

Take care,
Lisa

 

[Dolly Llama]

Do we think it's the ONLY cleaner and method that should be used? Absolutely not! Do we think that every technician should have more than one tool at his disposal? You bet!

what other methods do you use?
how do you handle dog pee-pee and pOOp??

thanks

..L.T.A.

 

[Captain America]

So I am guessing Rieta is cleaning with a bonnet and carbonated???? Method!!
Overwriting with HWE can be a problem, but larger engines blower and more heat can solve these issues, also with new tools like the zipper dry times and deeper cleaning abound with HWE.
With this in mind flushing 10-15 gallons of hot water per room will always clean better than spraying down a gallon or two of solution per house and moving it around.
It,s the same problem with mopping a floor vs. steaming with a truckmount.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Most of the newer cushion sold has avapor barrier on it. Some with such a thick skin that it won't accept urine. If soil were to get past the primary & secondary backing it would settle on the top of the cushion. Which as I previously mentioned isn't the case.

Many years ago felt pads and rubber waffle pads could break down with age and could possibly be what you're thinking of.

 

[Shane Deubell]

Give me hot water extraction or give me death!

Once in a while a homeowner will request low moisture and we do it.
Too messy here from the winter, we need a good flushing.

 

[Desk Jockey]

As a youth we shampooed thousands of carpets. It did a good job and we built our business off repeat clients.

But as Shane mentioned so subtly put it (), we are HWE first. If there is a need for super fast drying we can and have used OP but it is rare. We used OP and Encap mainly for commercial work. Both as stand alone systems as well as in conjunction with HWE.

Its nice to have options.

 

[Carbonated Carpet Woman]

Rieta proper HWE should not wet the carpet cushion and your statement about the pad capturing the soil sounds plausible, in reality it isn't.
We process multiple water damage losses a week. We see lots of carpet cushion and its never mud. Well, unless its a ground water flood anyway.
The majority of dry soil not removed during vacumming or cleaning is going to dead end in the backing of the carpet.

I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing. We don't do water damage restoration. I know it's big money, but it is just something that has never appealed to us. The mud I was talking about is what is created when you flush gallons of water through the carpet into the pad and then try to extract. I know there is equipment that represents only getting the carpet fibers wet, does that exist and does it work? We've followed HWE technicians for decades and that hasn't been our experience. It would be wonderful if so and even more wonderful if you didn't have to mortgage your farm to purchase it. As an aside, there have been times we've used extraction (restaurant grease requires it), so we're not anti-HWE at all, we're just interested to know what works best.

Reita I hope you and yours are doing well and that your business(es) are thriving.

HELLO, LISA! It's so good to see you again! We're doing fine! Thank you for so many kind words. That whole experience was quite the wild ride and something I don't EVER want to do again! We learned a LOT and we're grateful for the knowledge but as you know all too well, it's not for the faint-hearted. Are you doing well?

how do you handle dog pee-pee and pOOp??

We try to never "handle" pOOp! Our cleaner reacts instantly with dog urine and dog residues have never been an issue. On the contrary, our general cleaner used as a pre-spray is extremely effective on pet spots.

With this in mind flushing 10-15 gallons of hot water per room will always clean better than spraying down a gallon or two of solution per house and moving it around.
It,s the same problem with mopping a floor vs. steaming with a truckmount.

Hey, Captain! I know it seems counter-intuitive, and again, I'm not saying there's any reason to be exclusive, each system has its place but our solution is NOT a mop it around method, despite the fact that we use bonnets. Our cleaning solution makes the right bonnet extremely effective.

Most of the newer cushion sold has avapor barrier on it. Some with such a thick skin that it won't accept urine.

With enough time and wear sand will get through anything (that's why they make sandpaper) .

Too messy here from the winter, we need a good flushing.

We never hesitated to refer customers who prefer HWE.

I apologize for the loooong response here. I wasn't at my computer at all last night. I really appreciate all the responses and as I said earlier, I think every professional should have access to more than one method of cleaning. I'm interested in what new methods are available and where the industry is currently headed, and of course, we'd like to figure out a way to incorporate our cleaner into those systems. My experience has been that convenience is what drives most consumers, followed closely by solid, professional, reliable service.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Rieta
I believe we are speaking of the same thing if you're saying the cushion has soil, sand, or mud (once mixed with water) that passed through the carpet to the cushion, then I am disagreeing with you.

I don't want to disagree with you but I know from experience that when we remove the pad (at a water losses) it is not muddy nor is there sand or debris that passed though the carpet. I've never seen it in the decades of time spent in the field.

 

[Zee]

I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing. We don't do water damage restoration. I know it's big money, but it is just something that has never appealed to us. The mud I was talking about is what is created when you flush gallons of water through the carpet into the pad and then try to extract. I know there is equipment that represents only getting the carpet fibers wet, does that exist and does it work? We've followed HWE technicians for decades and that hasn't been our experience. It would be wonderful if so and even more wonderful if you didn't have to mortgage your farm to purchase it. As an aside, there have been times we've used extraction (restaurant grease requires it), so we're not anti-HWE at all, we're just interested to know what works best.


HELLO, LISA! It's so good to see you again! We're doing fine! Thank you for so many kind words. That whole experience was quite the wild ride and something I don't EVER want to do again! We learned a LOT and we're grateful for the knowledge but as you know all too well, it's not for the faint-hearted. Are you doing well?



We try to never "handle" pOOp! Our cleaner reacts instantly with dog urine and dog residues have never been an issue. On the contrary, our general cleaner used as a pre-spray is extremely effective on pet spots.


Hey, Captain! I know it seems counter-intuitive, and again, I'm not saying there's any reason to be exclusive, each system has its place but our solution is NOT a mop it around method, despite the fact that we use bonnets. Our cleaning solution makes the right bonnet extremely effective.



With enough time and wear sand will get through anything (that's why they make sandpaper) .



We never hesitated to refer customers who prefer HWE.

I apologize for the loooong response here. I wasn't at my computer at all last night. I really appreciate all the responses and as I said earlier, I think every professional should have access to more than one method of cleaning. I'm interested in what new methods are available and where the industry is currently headed, and of course, we'd like to figure out a way to incorporate our cleaner into those systems. My experience has been that convenience is what drives most consumers, followed closely by solid, professional, reliable service.

Look Rieta,

I deleted my posts yesterday because I felt bad... But to this latest, gotta say: wow

You are either trolling us or simply are ignorant. I'm sorry but you really sound like a total newbie.
I don't have time to dissect your post and respond right now but I'm sure I'm not the only one that could take it apart.

BTW, it doesn't sound like you are interested in what is out there... It sounds like you are just combating opinions to bring attention to your wares.

 

[Desk Jockey]

I think she is sincere and believes what she has stated. Nothing wrong with believing in your system as long as you are open minded to new ideas.

That works for all systems and being open minded to them.

ALTHOUGH no matter how much Dustin tries to push it on me $8,500.00 is still a lot of money.

 

[Carbonated Carpet Woman]

Thanks, Rico. I appreciate your response and I think you are very agreeable with your disagreement. We haven't encountered what you describe, which is fine.

You are either trolling us or simply are ignorant. I'm sorry but you really sound like a total newbie.
I don't have time to dissect your post and respond right now but I'm sure I'm not the only one that could take it apart.
BTW, it doesn't sound like you are interested in what is out there... It sounds like you are just combating opinions to bring attention to your wares.

I am not a combatant or a troll, although a couple of my kids might disagree with that. I am also not a newbie. Obviously, our experiences are very different, but your assessment of me is incorrect.

 

[hogjowl]

First off, let me say Carbo Woman's prespray is very effective on pet urine. I had a pretty crappy pee job that I had to water claw and OSR. After it dried, the wicked pee came right up using her stuff and a bonnet. I was impressed.

However, I cast some serious doubt on her pad statements. I SERIOUSLY doubt she or her husband have gone around disengaging carpets and checking the padding all these years and I know she hasn't been finding mud underneath. I know this because I spent years selling and replacing carpets and I never found mud, or much soil underneath. I DID find backing debris and Carpet Fresh Powder ... all the time.

Some of the things I see written on these boards and presented as fact still amaze me, even after all these years.

And even after meeting some of you people ...

 

[Desk Jockey]

Some of the things I see written on these boards and presented as fact still amaze me, even after all these years.

Hey Thanks glad I can help you...lord knows you need it!

 

[Carbonated Carpet Woman]

First off, let me say Carbo Woman's prespray is very effective on pet urine. I had a pretty crappy pee job that I had to water claw and OSR. After it dried, the wicked pee came right up using her stuff and a bonnet. I was impressed.
However, I cast some serious doubt on her pad statements. I SERIOUSLY doubt she or her husband have gone around disengaging carpets and checking the padding all these years and I know she hasn't been finding mud underneath. I know this because I spent years selling and replacing carpets and I never found mud, or much soil underneath. I DID find backing debris and Carpet Fresh Powder ... all the time.
Some of the things I see written on these boards and presented as fact still amaze me, even after all these years.
And even after meeting some of you people ...

Thanks for trying our cleaner.

I think maybe I've been a little misunderstood on the whole pad issue. I know this is flogging that poor, dead horse, but ... what I want to know is how do you NOT create mud when you flush a dirty carpet with hot water? And since you've created it, how can you be sure your extraction equipment has removed it all? The reason for this question is that we HAVE removed a lot of old carpets and ALWAYS on the subfloor, underneath the carpet AND the pad is dirt and/or sand (in addition to the backing debris and Carpet Fresh Powder and a few other unmentionables ). The other reason is that we've been somewhat removed from the HWE innovations for the past while and wanted to know what the latest and greatest is and if it lives up to its hype.

And as an aside to this whole (evidently) misguided post, I didn't realize about the advertising protocol, which I will be working out with Mike in the near future. I hope if I advertise it doesn't mean I can't still post?

 

[Desk Jockey]

The reason for this question is that we HAVE removed a lot of old carpets and ALWAYS on the subfloor, underneath the carpet AND the pad is dirt and/or sand (in addition to the backing debris and Carpet Fresh Powder and a few other unmentionables

Now I see where you get that! I'm with you now, Rieta that is mud!!!

Its clay filler that is used in the latex that is spread on binding the secondary backing to the primary backing. It breaks down and thus your "mud".

 

[Zee]

what I want to know is how do you NOT create mud when you flush a dirty carpet with hot water? And since you've created it, how can you be sure your extraction equipment has removed it all?

Are you talking about subsurface extraction like waterclawing a urine area?

If you are just talking about hwe cleaning in general, then you are misguided and don't understand the process. A half decent equipment with a decent tech will NOT soak the backing and padding. Therefore, even if there is broken down lamination and other particles, it would not be an issue.

Also, anything that an extraction cleaning method pulls out will be more than a pad cleaning method. Even if it's not 100% extracted from the padding. (since that is almost impossible)

Let me ask you this: how do you picture HWE cleaning being done? Are you imagining those videos of certain dry chem companies where they present a steam cleaner with a wand absolutely soaking a carpet (most likely with no vac hose attached or equipment not even running?
Like this

 

[Shane Deubell]

Why do vlm people insist on taking this adversarial position?
Making up these absurd claims...

Could probably 10x sales if you just sold it as an additional service.