Do you "preheat" your machine ??

[Scott Rogers]

Let’s say you go and purchase a heat exchange unit that will have close to the same heating ability as the C-4. You will have to buy the largest horsepower heat exchange unit on the market; something like a 68 hp water-cooled engine. Now let’s say that this engine lasts 10,000 hours and the average job is 2 hours. So you had to preheat the engine on 5,000 jobs at 15 minutes per job. That is 1250 hours of preheating. To me, this is unacceptable because the engine only had 10,000 hours to begin with. So you are putting almost 1250 hours on the engine and it is not even cleaning carpets.
.

Not trying to debate HE vs Propane, just curious how many actually "preheat" your machine before cleaning? I always start my jobs doing things that dont require high heat (pre-spraying and cleaning under furniture) any way the TM is always at max temp by the time I hit the open areas. Even if I had a HE system I dont think I would waste time and fuel "preheating" the unit

 

[bob vawter]

The Direct Drive(PTO) units are (pre-heated) on the way to the FIRST JOB!
I don get WTF you guys are arguing about!

 

[Brian R]

That's what I did.

 

[Mike Draper]

Pre-Heat? with my butler max hx setup any time it was under 30degrees it would not be shut off until i got home that night. If I lived where it was warm all the time it may be different.

 

[Doug Cox]

The machine stays hot for quite a long time so I would only need to pre heat the machine at the start of the day. I just start mine when I get to the first job and let it run at medium speed until I begin cleaning.

 

[FB7777]

1250 hours of pre-heating???? wow now thats some crazy a$$ math ROTFLMAO

Thats about silliest sales pitch I've ever heard

#1 If you actually do pre-heat... which I doubt anyone does, you'd only have to do it on the first job like Doug said, so you're actually talking about 10-15 minutes per day or 1 machine hour a week


Thats 50 hours a year, not 1250 hours :shock:

#2 We're just cleaning carpets... why on earth would you want to have 2 different fuel sources to run a machine???? A separate burner just takes up more room in the truck and you have to fill propane tanks

 

[renegade_cowboy]

1250 hours of pre-heating???? wow now thats some crazy a$$ math ROTFLMAO

Thats about silliest sales pitch I've ever heard

#1 If you actually do pre-heat... which I doubt anyone does, you'd only have to do it on the first job like Doug said, so you're actually talking about 10-15 minutes per day or 1 machine hour a week


Thats 50 hours a year, not 1250 hours :shock:

#2 We're just cleaning carpets... why on earth would you want to have 2 different fuel sources to run a machine???? A separate burner just takes up more room in the truck and you have to fill propane tanks

I own a propane heater, sure it heats up quick but the 2 different fuel sources and the space it takes up has been the biggest downside. Not to mention running an open flame in my van.

 

[Mike Draper]

Fred, I will send you $1000 dollars if you can get 200 sustained heat at the wand in the winter with your butler. Drive it five miles, pull over then start spraying out your wand. Unfortunately you cant do this. and your butler wont be getting close to 200 at the wand. but the offer is on the table for you. Put it all on video and you will get a grand cash. I dont think you can get 200 sustained at the wand in the middle of summer with that thing. Has to be at least a 100' run.

I cant even count how many times its taken me 20+ minutes of cleaning in the winter with my butler to get my wand temp to a reasonable cleaning temp of at least 185. And this was on the second and third job. A blower takes a while to get heated up. Most of you guys have no idea what your at wand temp is because you have no gauge on it. So how can we rally take you serious on your "My truck is delivering heat" theories?

 

[bob vawter]

can I get in on that action............i'll hold the camera 8)

 

[FB7777]

Fred, I will send you $1000 dollars if you can get 200 sustained heat at the wand in the winter with your butler. Drive it five miles, pull over then start spraying out your wand. Unfortunately you cant do this. and your butler wont be getting close to 200 at the wand. but the offer is on the table for you. Put it all on video and you will get a grand cash. I dont think you can get 200 sustained at the wand in the middle of summer with that thing. Has to be at least a 100' run.

I cant even count how many times its taken me 20+ minutes of cleaning in the winter with my butler to get my wand temp to a reasonable cleaning temp of at least 185. And this was on the second and third job. A blower takes a while to get heated up. Most of you guys have no idea what your at wand temp is because you have no gauge on it. So how can we rally take you serious on your "My truck is delivering heat" theories?

The Max Heat Butlers I have typically are at 230-240 ATM... in the winter they maintain 210-230

These units have blower exhaust exchangers in addition to the standard Butler units ( which do operate considerable colder than the high heat Butlers)

Never tested at the wand and frankly am not interested in anything hotter than these units... especially with employees


This thread isn't about super hot temperatures... its about a ridiculous claim that guys are using up 1250 engines hours a year just heating up their machines :roll:

 

[Mike Draper]

I had one, id say les's figures were low for my butler. Your figures were just plain silly, but it sounds liike your ok trying to clean with cold water for the first 20 minutes.

 

[Burtz]

hey bob what kind of heat you get with a 185 degree thermostat and the end of 125 feet of hose

 

[Mike Draper]

hey bob what kind of heat you get with a 185 degree thermostat and the end of 125 feet of hose

You have to take into consideration the coolant hx will cool down drastically in the winter. As you pull the trigger the water takes heat from the antifreze and in turn is cooling the engine rapidly. probably best scenario would be 175 at the wand on regualr wand.

 

[KevinD]

I have a slide in heat exchanger. 38hp
I never warm it up for heat per say.
Just 2-3 minutes for the engine,pump & blower oils to circulate.
By time I hydraforce a room or two and groom it is opening the 240 solenoid.
So I don't call that warming up time, I call it working time.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

My Butler was plenty hot first job, never any "preheating time".

 

[FB7777]

Mike,

There is an enormous difference in the heat between a standard Butler and the High Heat Butlers

I had 2 without High heat back in the early 2000s and they would be cleaning at 140-180 ATM on commercial jobs.

The High Heat maintains over 220 no problem


Do you honestly believe that guys are using up 1250 hours a year warming up their machines?

 

[Mike Draper]

Having put over 2500 hours on my butler max hx system and thermometers on al my cleaning tools I know what it takes to hit peak temp at the tool in a cold climate.

 

[Mike Draper]

And 1250 hours was not just for 1 year.

 

[Jim Martin]

I pre heat the machine in the colder months but never in the summer..I have more problems cooling it down then heating it up in the summer....


ambient air temp plays a huge roll.............

 

[joe harper]

Just read thr 1st two paragraphs.... :shock:


http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/pubs/5098.html

 

[ACE]

In my experience, the big problem with HE units is issues with regulating heat, not lack of heat. I always had problems with solenoids, diverters, thermostats ect. Other than some entry level units the HE machines, they get plenty hot enough to clean carpet. A HE unit is more likely to overheat than underheat.

 

[FB7777]

And 1250 hours was not just for 1 year.

You're correct Mike, I read that wrong

The presumption was that during the life of a 10,000 hour engine, 1250 hours were used pre-heating the water.

Still ridiculous IMO



I can't debate on temperatures any higher than what we clean with our High Heat Butlers because its all I am familiar with... again my observation was not about 'how hot a Butler gets vs a propane unit'

It was regarding a claim that a propane fired unit will save 12.5 % of the life of a motor because you won' thave to wait for the equipment temps to warm up

 

[Mike Draper]

It wasn't about saving the life of a motor, just saving money in fuel.

 

[Scott Rogers]

It wasn't about saving the life of a motor, just saving money in fuel.

To me its about efficiency. If my machine is running its cleaning.

 

[FB7777]

Fair enough Mike , from the moment our vans leave the garage, they usually run until they come back... except for lunch.

I suppose we could save a few bucks turning them on and off for those 10-15 minutes before and after jobs as well.


The 1250 hour HX vs propane comparison struck me as an odd selling advantage, most guys that have chimed in on this thread must be cold water cleaning too :roll:

 

[bob vawter]

hey bob what kind of heat you get with a 185 degree thermostat and the end of 125 feet of hose

i get 205 and more ATM....

 

[XTREME1]

I will warm the machine up in the winter but besides only a couple months out of the year roll the hose out and start moving furniture, vac if needed, prespray, prescrub(now we rotovac first) then wand. If we have furniture we will start on that first prespray hand brush and start cleaning the backs with the tool in constant flow it is heated before we finish the less soiled back, back where the cushions resta nd sides then we start on the cushions and then the arms. Never had a problem with this scenario.

I remember have the propane heater with the century 400 got good heat but nothing like i get from my machines and sometimes the darn propane would run out because we had to go to a seperate place to get it

 

[FB7777]

I ran propane for 2 years... hated the ambient heat in the van and having to fill up

Not to mention the occassional cold water cleaning when the tank ran out

 

[Scott Rogers]

hey bob what kind of heat you get with a 185 degree thermostat and the end of 125 feet of hose

i get 205 and more ATM....

with two 02 jets. What do you get with 10 flow?

 

[bob vawter]

[quote="bob vawter":2x393ifm]

hey bob what kind of heat you get with a 185 degree thermostat and the end of 125 feet of hose

i get 205 and more ATM....

with two 02 jets. What do you get with 10 flow?[/quote:2x393ifm]
that WAS wit a pimped GH wand...running a WM HX.......
the machine that went to New Jersey had a BUTLER HX..
i'm anxious to see what it does......