Do your customers set your prices, or do you?

[LisaWagnerCRS]

This began with a post on the *** board (Mike, I think you just call it The MF board...)

A rug was cleaned by a customer. Oriental wool rug - Persian - bled and smelling very bad.

Rather than take the rug to a plant to be washed, sanitized, and truly cleaned - he opted to truck mount surface clean, spray some "smell nicer" stuff on it, and do the best he could with what he had, because the woman did not want to pay for any more. She even got him to knock his price down to 89 cents a sq ft... which I don't know why he'd even post that.

Am I the only one who tells clients prices are NOT negotiable?

When I go to the grocery store, I don't tell the clerk, "hey, I'll give you a buck for this loaf of bread, whatta ya say?"

I also don't tell the doctor, "hey, let's not use the anesthesia and knock off a thousand bucks, whatta ya say?"

Why in THIS industry, is there even the possibility that someone would compromise their cleaning standards, AND lower their prices, and be able to post about it as if this is what EVERYONE does?

So - how about it? How many of you do not lower prices based on your customer telling you so... and how many of you refuse to compromise cleaning standards for the sake of someone else's convenience or their own uneducated opinion of what "clean" is?

If we are going to improve the reputation of this industry, we need to find out why in the world we are one of the areas that have open ended pricing and a lack of self-worth in those who are supposed to be the experts at cleaning and indoor health quality.

I will turn away a job before I lower my standards, or my prices. We don't clean on-site, ever. We don't lower our price, ever.

I know I'm not alone here, right? Or am I?

Lisa

 

[ronbeatty]

Lisa, I am involved in a lawsuit with an insurance company as I post. I completed a total dry down of a home over Christmas holiday. The total bill came to $6100.00. The insurance company offered $4000.00. I had a signed contract with a deposit before I started. Turned it over to our attorney, told him to go get it!!!!!. I never back down, and will not negotiate with scum.

 

[sweendogg]

Ron Werner.... I think you found a friend!!! :mrgreen:


And Lisa I absolutly agree.. with rugs... We aren't negotiable because it takes a lot of time to clean rugs, they get what they pay for. If anything the price goes up with extra services/ special situations.. not down.

But on Carpet Cleaning, if you include deoderization in your price, and their really is not a need for a deoderization and the customer requests to lower their price by leaving off part of that service.. would you?

If a painter is asked to clean a room, he includes the baseboards in his quote but the customers say I don't want the baseboards done, will he leave that amount in his price or lower his price?

I guess I can think of certain situations when perhaps removing a non critical step from your service to help a customer stay under budget, or make that customer happy can not only still get you work, but also create a more satisfied customer who may be more willing to refer you because you were willing to work with them.

Its not always about being the high and mighty, sometimes its about keeping money coming in, not matter how small the profit margin just to keep food on the table and bills paid.

Now if we are all doing great business and have a list of customers 2000 miles long.. then sure we can be a bit more picky in our customer choice.

Now in case of renogiation.. as Ron said, if we agree to a price and work is done.. that is the price they pay,, nothing less.. (and my favorite part if its a rug.. (which seldom happens) no pay, I get a new freshley cleaned rug) (we never want this to happen but its a very very very small benefit)

 

[Dolly Llama]

Why in THIS industry, is there even the possibility that someone would compromise their cleaning standards, AND lower their prices, and be able to post about it as if this is what EVERYONE does?


Lisa

Because it's like most other businesses .
painters, plumbers, roofers, landscapers, general contractors and sign makers, etc.
some will negotiate price, some won't.
That's quite a different thing than the situation Ron mentioned

you might think it foolish or beneath you to "lower your standards" and bonnet clean or encRap a com establishment, but we're in biz to make MONEY and if "they're" happy, we should be ecstatic..


Not thing wrong with the way you or anyone chooses to do it, though.

however, "one size" don't fit all....


..L.T.A.

 

[rhino1]

This is a lot more of a complicated issue than what you have posted. Wool rugs are one thing especially if you have positioned yourself as an expert in your community and are an established firm. There is a big difference between you and a guy thats got a truck or two, low overhead, and a family of 5 to feed in a competive area. I refer any wool rug that I can't pay for out of my pocket to the local rug shop that has been around forever and I have no problem doing that. I do that because I think my customers deserve the best in that field. He even runs a carpet cleaning truck.

Alot has to do with the personality of the business owner. Are you able to convince your customer that you are worth what you want to charge or are you more of a laid back, hard worker who intends to stay busy by actually cleaning than running around just looking for cleaning jobs.

I think it is great if you run the type of boutique cleaning operation that depends on a higher job ticket to bring in the dough. Good for you if you can get it. That does not make someone who charges less than you a worse carpet cleaner, or someone who brings industry standards down.

Fact is, the guy that runs a value priced, volume based business is just as likely to succeed as someone who runs the high dollar JP marketing operation. One of the companies in town here attends the JP seminars, they advertise the free recorded message schtick on the on their vans. I get some of their customers every month who are just thrilled with the service we provide, refer us, and keep using us.

 

[Mike Draper]

I agree with you 100% Lisa. I never negotiate on residential carpet cleaning, and very rarely will I negotiate on commercial. Yes, I do lose jobs to less expensive cleaners, I don't let it bother me. I tell people " we take our time and clean by quality, not by quantity. About half the people that call me to schedule ask nothing about price. It's always surprising how many times I get the husband calling me back after there wives have talked to me and ask "why I cost more than so and so" and now their wife doesn't want to have their carpet cleaned by anyone else. Can you come give us a bid?

 

[Mike Draper]

Chris, I agree with you that there is money to be made at the top and at the bottom.

 

[Lonny]

This is a good question. I have been on both sides, truly it comes down to positions of power. Can I afford to lose the business- both present and future? This is really what it boils down to for me. In times past I could take or leave business and not be too affected by it. Starting over again, I cannot afford to lose the business, so I may negotiate- as long as I remain comfortable with the margins.

 

[Mikey P]

If I have five or six jobs that day and my week or weeks are booked, I'm not very generous.

Call me on a rainy week in February and I have 4 jobs on the books and I can be very negotiable.



Nothing less than a $100 an hour with the goal of 300.

 

[LisaWagnerCRS]

I get offering different packages to offer different pricing (that actually if the best way to offer what is best for different budgets) - we actually teach that at Piranha to help cleaners RAISE their prices, by packaging the extras into a price level that normally would be outside of their comfort zone.

It also gets the customer to think of which option - rather than yes or no.

I guess the point I was getting at was do you do a half-ass clean at a half-ass price because the customer insists? Do you, even though you have the training and experience, allow a customer to call YOUR shots?

You don't have to be the highest price in town - but you should know what is fair, and what you want to take home to your family at the end of the day.

Me... I'm much more eager to give a gift to a long time client, and do something for free, then to give anything up front to someone who I have no client relationship with. The first one has earned the reward, the second has not.

Dealers used to always tell me - wash these rugs cheap and I'll bring you lots more. I had to remind them that lots of rugs meant lots more labor, and for no profit. I'd tell them to bring me the work first, then they'd have some negotiating clout. Wholesale work sucks though, and we got rid of just about all of it. Price shoppers always think they are paying too much, are never happy with the work, and rarely pay on time... the best thing I ever did was raise our prices and start repelling the price shoppers - then I was dealing with those who were looking based on quality, not price.

Just some things to think about... thanks for the posts. I'm happy to know I'm not alone on this.

Lisa

 

[John Watson]

Lisa, when we are asked to lower a, say, $360 bid to $350, even Helen says We are sorry No, Buy we can make it $375. We then ask of needed, if they want to reduce the cleaning scope any by doing TA's without moving contents? Or other things of this nature so we can book and so the job. 98% have us do as we orrigially quoted for and many add protector on top once they see haw their carpets are cleaning up.. You got to remember Helen cracks a mean whip.......But she still lets me Dance wit my Miss Wanda....

 

[topnotchman]

And who sets up the truckmount hoses again? :mrgreen:

Lisa, when we are asked to lower a, say, $360 bid to $350, even Helen says We are sorry No, Buy we can make it $375. We then ask of needed, if they want to reduce the cleaning scope any by doing TA's without moving contents? Or other things of this nature so we can book and so the job. 98% have us do as we orrigially quoted for and many add protector on top once they see haw their carpets are cleaning up.. You got to remember Helen cracks a mean whip.......But she still lets me Dance wit my Miss Wanda....

 

[Mikey P]

When it's slow I second guess my decision to be the priciest cleaner in town but when we're ripping from may into xmas I'll forget the doubt and raise prices a bit.


I would think that in San Diego you can stay busy solid all year long and stay cocky. My town is too small and can be too wet the first quarter to turn all but the most desirable ones away.

 

[LisaWagnerCRS]

When it's slow I second guess my decision to be the priciest cleaner in town but when we're ripping from may into xmas I'll forget the doubt and raise prices a bit.


I would think that in San Diego you can stay busy solid all year long and stay cocky. My town is too small and can be too wet the first quarter to turn all but the most desirable ones away.

Wasn't trying to be cocky.

Our members use the maintenance programs to help even out the revenue during the slow times, just to have consistent cash flow.

I've been thinking through a rug maintenance program for some of our high-value hotel properties, and clients with large numbers of rugs. Anyone do maintenance plans for rugs? If I get one that is a winner, I'll share it with you all.

Lisa

 

[sweendogg]

Instead of a maintenance plan Lisa, look at how often a rug is coming for cleaning and if its been 6 months since you cleaned it and your overhead/cost of cleaning is down, give that savings back to the customer and explain it to them. We tell all of our customers, we can give better pricing if you are cleaning more often because our labor and cleaning solution usage goes down, and so we are happy to pass that savings on the customer. We maintain the same profit margin almost every time, but the customer gets a percieved price break.

 

[Desk Jockey]

If I have five or six jobs that day and my week or weeks are booked, I'm not very generous.

Call me on a rainy week in February and I have 4 jobs on the books and I can be very negotiable.

Pretty much like Mike. When we are busy not only are we firm on price but we are very picky on what jobs we will take. If we don't want it we will price it higher, if we get it, much the better.

When we are slow, we will do most anything to keep busy and will work on a smaller margin, but still price it to be profitable. If we can't make money, we might as well stay at home.

 

[Dolly Llama]

I guess the point I was getting at was do you do a half-ass clean at a half-ass price because the customer insists? Do you, even though you have the training and experience, allow a customer to call YOUR shots?

I'm not sure I know what a "half ass" price is.
Does that mean "little" less profit than my goal, a "lot" less , or no profit?

The "half ass" clean I can figure out on my own.

Maybe we're arguing semantics here, or I'm still not clear whether you consider "flexibility" "half assed" or not...

BUT BUT BUT....

both these can and do apply to res and com.
If I explain the options available to them, and what "I" know is "best" ie..a thorough vac, quality chems, mechanical scrub, thorough flush/rinse extract, etc and "they" choose to dispense with one or more of those steps..... I'll be glad to sell them "less than the best" option..
We do have a "base line" for res though..and that's a pre-spray and thorough extract.
For com, I'll lower standards even more and bonnet clean if they don't want the "best most thorough clean ever or it's free" job.

Bonnet clean or encRap is surely a much lower standard that were capable of and approaches "half ass" ....fer-shur


in res
If Fee-Fee makes pee-pee on the carpet continuously and I recommend removing the pad and they decline.... welp...I'll give them a "half assed" job if that's what "they" choose.
I'll also advise them that of no guarantee and we'll do out best, but they "get what they get" when we're done.

You don't have to be the highest price in town - but you should know what is fair, and what you want to take home to your family at the end of the day.

we agree and sometimes we "tailor" the price to fit "their" needs/wants
and that can include "less than best" option.
That "less than best" could surly be considered "half assed" to some custys and exceed expectations of others

Me... I'm much more eager to give a gift to a long time client, and do something for free, then to give anything up front to someone who I have no client relationship with.

I'm with you there.
here's the rub though, would it be foolish to lose a $300-$500 res order because we so inflexible we wouldn't "lower our standards" and dispense with a vac? (even if it needed it)

Would it be foolish to lose 10,000sf com account over a couple pennies a sf?
Say the difference between $150 pr hour gross and $125...

Dealers used to always tell me - wash these rugs cheap and I'll bring you lots more. I had to remind them that lots of rugs meant lots more labor, and for no profit. I'd tell them to bring me the work first, then they'd have some negotiating clout. Wholesale work sucks though, and we got rid of just about all of it.

well Dear, then I'd suggest you're "just about" like most everyone else.

Forgive me if I'm missing the point here...I'm just a dumb CC'er .
But unless one's spouse has a good job with bennies ...or are a part time owner/op witha "real" job..OR you're as busy as you want to be...OR have other biz ventures/investments that provide income....
it's foolish to be so inflexible that "some" negotiation isn't an option..
on price and/or level of service

It goes without saying, that any negotiations "must" still be "profitable" to the biz owner


..L.T.A.

 

[Dolly Llama]

peeeeee-esseee

BTW, the "market" set the prices.
whether that's at the top, middle or bottom .

there's a finite amount of prospects whether in the top, mid or lower tier


..L.T.A.

 

[Brian R]

Two reasons cleaners negotiate price

1. It's a service industry...not a loaf of bread. Every job is different and begs a different price.

2. There is no real set price for cleaning carpets Etc. across the board.

When you go to a store or restaurant that is higher priced it is because the service is better...not necessarily the product. Sometimes it IS a better product.

Walmart has the lowest prices and tries to promote customer service but they are scraping the bottom of the gene pool (where their prices are) to get employees.

So the "I never lower my prices" will work for some and the "I always raise my prices when I get there" work for others but there isn't much difference between the two.

I would be willing to bet good money that everyone...and I do mean everyone on this board has at one time or another tried to negotiate a better price for something. Ever buy a house? A car.

Those in glass business' should not be throwing stones.

This has been a moment with Brian.

 

[Brian R]

Any service industry that comes to your place will be stuck with the negotiating part.

Any service industry that has you come to their place (Restaurant etc) has already done the negotiating before you got there...maybe that's HOW they got you there.


The whole purpose of giving a "quote" or "estimate" is because every place is different.

 

[rhino1]

I thiank meat is dead on. However, if you run the higher end boutique carpet cleaning or rug cleaning service your customers will be very disappointed if you don't treat them like children, demand a higher ticket, and refuse to budge on price. The kinda folks that only the best will do, and best to them means expensive, their pride would never allow them to be seen with a $25/room cleaning van in their driveway.

Personally, I don't market to those folks. The houses are too big and the furniture is waaaay too heavy. shiteatinggrin

We go to the best neighborhoods in the area with our coupon specials. Like it or not, there is a bunch of folks in those nice homes who mostly shop at Wal-Mart and love to get a good deal. I have noticed that these people may have a $1million home ( in this area that is a VERY nice home, in Cali it might buy you a 2 bedroom facing an alley) but they have a 10 yr old Toyota in the driveway instead of a BMW.

 

[Brian R]

Most people didn't obtain all there money from giving it away willy nilly.

Mr. Burns comes to mind.

 

[LisaWagnerCRS]

I guess the "half-ass" comment comes from the original post over on the other forum - where the guy did not thoroughly clean the rug, because the woman didn't want to pay for it. I just couldn't get past that I guess... it's like getting half the price for a haircut and just cutting half the head.

If I'm the cleaner - I know what's best.

With in home, I think the answer is package pricing to allow the wiggle-room without having to be hammered to lower it more and more.

So... how many of you offer package pricing?

Lisa

P.S. sweendog - thanks for responding to the maintenance question. I'll think about what you mentioned. I was looking at perhaps a seasonal dusting, and fringe cleaning, since the dry soil and fringe dirtying is always the parts that look worst first in the hotels.

P.P.S. meat - regarding wholesale, gotten rid of "just about all" of it just means we went from 85% wholesale/15% retail (with 50-75 cents on the wholesale) to now 90% retail residential/ 10% wholesale (with wholesale now $3 per sq ft and retail $4-5). Took a decade for the transition to fully take place, but night and day difference, and of that wholesale, the bulk of that is restoration companies who I enjoy working with, and very few retailer orders (they send all their wash up to LA, but bring their personal rugs to us). Hope that clears it up. Again, the higher prices brings us better clients, we have the margins to spend more time with them, and do a better job, and have an overall better customer experience.

 

[rhino1]

So what is an example of package pricing?

Maybe that and a thread on how you politely deal with price shoppers. I'm dirt cheap and I still get price shoppers - I'm delighted to refer to an even cheaper guy.

 

[Ron Werner]

was the custy happy with the work?

"Seems" that's the criteria to shoot for, whether you do something you know you shouldn't or not.

 

[juniorc82]

I agree that residential prices are non negotiable. But You wont get a high volume of commercial work unless you are willing to bend a bit. these commercial clients know someone can do it for cheaper. you can sell them on quality all day on commercial but they are still number oriented.

 

[steve frasier]

you should come work at my fireworks stand for a few days

 

[roro]

But You wont get a high volume of commercial work unless you are willing to bend a bit. these commercial clients know someone can do it for cheaper. you can sell them on quality all day on commercial but they are still number oriented.

Not true in our experience. In over 20 years doing commercial I could count on my fingers the number of times we have been asked to sharpen our pencil on a quote / renegotiate a price.

Once I happened to see in error an analysis that government decision makers used for comparison ; from memory the weighting for price was only about 15% of the decision matrix.
Sure not everyone uses that system but price isn't the biggie and yet it seems that it's what most trades and services try to sell on.

roro

 

[daniel@procarpet]

My customers definitely set the price. Some customers just get a better deal. It is usually the young attractive female customers or the sweet super nice ladies that get a deal. If they offer me a drink or tip then they always get a deal the next go round. After the job I always think damn I can't believe I just cleaned for that price. I am still making better money than most.

 

[duckster]

I set my prices and require payment in full up front via Paypal or I will not schedule the job.

Three groups I don't negotiate with:
Customers
Terrorists
Anyone on PMS