Does a Magnetic Water Conditioner Work Like a Softner?

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George Valliant
I have an expensive magnetic water conditioner and I would like to know if I am getting the same results as an actual water softner. Anybody know the difference or are they the same?
 

Shane T

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I used the Forever Clean(I believe that was the name) for a few years before I got soft water. It did a good job at reducing the mineral build up on the inside of my system but I don't think it worked the same as soft water when it came to cleaning ability.
 
G

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If it keeps the system clean,then well worth it.Most companies nowadays add water conditioners to their products.
 

John Olson

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Do you have water hardness test paper? if not get some and test your water then test someone else's that has a real softner. The magnetic is snake oil and I refuse to sell it.
 

Shane T

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It's not a softner. It will not make hard water soft but like I said it will help keep build up in your system down. I have a brother who is a full time RV're and it has greatly increase the life of their electric water heater. Give a choice I'll take soft water.
 
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Shawn Forsythe
I'm with John on this one.

We used to sell them 15 or so, years ago. Just long enough to thoroughly conclude that they were pretty useless.
 

Larry Cobb

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It is kind of like portable extractors.

Some don't work, and some do a very good job.

Magnetic water softeners definitely do work, IF they are high quality devices.

I looked at a $6000 electromagnetic one just recently.

Hydramaster actually included the "Forever Clean" devices on many of their TM's for years.

We think they do work, if the main hardness ion is calcium. They just keep the calcium ions in a more soluble form in the water.

Your water department can tell you the hardness ions you have in your water.

Larry
 

Jimmy L

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This is the same thing that is sold to add to one's water heater in a home.

Consumer's reports tested it for months against a heater that didn't have a magnet installed.

Results were NO difference, didn't do a damn thing.
 
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I've asked every single marketer of the magnetic systems to provide a viable scientific explanation of their operating principles, and have thus far not heard of one.

Sure, you get explanations, but none that actually relate to accepted scientific principles.


Here is a typical explanation(among many diverse ones):

The magnetic field works under the principles of physics by creating field lines parallel with the water pipe. As the molecules within the water enter the field they change their motion from random to orderly motion, spinning in a helix path. This orderly motion imparts energy to the molecules. This in turn causes the molecules to bunch together with other molecules of the opposite charge. The large molecules reduce the ionic charge and destructive forces from millions per cubic inch of water to hundreds per cubic inch, thereby reducing the destructive action. The heavier molecular bunches fall out of suspension and leave inert white powder on your sink and appliances that can be brushed or washed away. Although it does not look great it stops the destruction of your appliances and pipes while also providing you with "soft water".

While that explanation seems to satisfy a small subsegment of potential purchasers, it also conflicts with others seemingly equally "viable" positions (even the calcium-only theory that Larry Cobb mentioned). But one thing it does not do, nor any do, is relate to actual science.

If you want some real science on the scam of magnetic water conditioning, I would suggest this to read:

http://www.chem1.com/CQ/magscams.html

http://www.chem1.com/CQ/aquacrack.html
 

John Olson

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AS Always Shawn shows he's a Brainiac. :) I don't know all the scientfic mumbo jumbo but I know Bull Shit when I see it. No way a Magnet is going to do anyting. If it did trap anything where would it GO? :shock:
 

Larry Cobb

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Some of the ideas of magnetic water softening:

"Descaling of Water

Limescale (consisting of mainly calcium carbonate, plus calcium sulfate, barium sulfate, calcium phosphate, magnesium hydroxide, zinc phosphate, iron hydroxides and silica, dependent on the geographical area) is a problem in heated water systems wherever water is obtained from limestone or chalk countryside. It is formed primarily because the solubility of calcium carbonate decreases with increasing temperature. Limescale is only a problem if calcium carbonate deposits rhombohedral calcite crystals, which may form directly or subsequent to metastable hexagonal and fibrous vaterite crystal formation. Orthorhombic aragonite crystals have a higher density and, although intrinsically harder, are less prone to form hard scale, but are only about one kJ mol-1 less stable and favored at higher temperatures. Once formed, crystals are kinetically (if not thermodynamically) stable for hundreds of hours. By drawing water through a static magnetic field (B ~0.1 T , gradientB~10 T m-1, it has been shown that the initial amount of aragonite formed is significantly increased over calcite in samples with and without the presence of dissolved iron , although this aragonite eventually changes to calcite . A separate experiment has shown that drawing a pure solution of calcium carbonate and bicarbonate through static magnets (0.16 T) for 5-30 min increases the precipitate formed on degassing the excess dissolved carbon dioxide .

The direction and variation of the magnetic field has also been shown to be important , with crystal size decreasing with increasing magnetic field . A different group has showed agreement in a recent study where under similar conditions (B = 0.5 T, flow rate = 0.1 m s-1) the magnetic field produces mainly a mixture of aragonite (44%) and vaterite (42%) whereas without it well-crystallized calcite (34%) is formed with little aragonite (14%) . It has been proposed that the smaller water cluster size, being more reactive, hydrates the calcium and carbonate (particularly; see a recent supporting study ) ions more effectively and so encourages aragonite nucleation . Alternatively, the magnetic field may cause a surface and/or orientation effects on the growing crystals . It is possible, however, that the major effect is the magnetically induced competitive formation of hydrated silica in suitable solutions that then absorbs calcium ions .



There are many devices on the market for the magnetic treatment of water for the removal of such limescale. The sales success of these devices would seem to indicate that some work as promoted, at least under some circumstances.



Magnetic treatment of water is claimed to cause four effects:

1. Reduction in the amount of limescale formed.
2. Production of a less tenacious limescale due to a change in the crystal morphology.
3. Removal of existing scale (3 - 6 months).
4. Retention of anti-scaling properties for hours following treatment."

Larry
 
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Shawn Forsythe
Those are indeed "ideas", Larry.

I hope you are not purporting them as true, are you?


Water cluster size? Is that from a yet unknown or undiscovered area of science? I mean outside of Martin Chaplin's musings.

Moreover, this particular explanation seems to rely on the magnetism present in the area of precipitation. I've yet to see one of these water conditioners actually present over the periphery of the actual heating coils. Or are we to believe that water or it's dissolved minerals actually retain a stable magnetic field responsible for what they call "Orthorhombic aragonite" crystallization?

I would contend the only thing that theory "proves" is that marketers can indeed be creative. The only thing these theories lack is dead inventors killed by the nefarious and conspiratorial traditional ion exchange water softener industry, to keep the miracle of magnetic water conditioning from becoming the ubiquitous standard through more public awareness. You know, the same thing that keeps 300 MPG carburetors off the market.
 

Shane T

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Have any of you salesmen ever used on for any period of time? I have and I can tell you that without changing anyother variables it did make a diffrence in the build up in my system. Can you tell me why that might be if not for the conditioner?
 

Rex Tyus

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