Dualwandophobia

[Jim Morrison]

OK I have yet to dual wand with my Cleanco 47. Recently cleaned 5600 sq ft in a bank and used the tm (single wanding) and a porty. I am putting a bid in on 11k sqft in a small casino and know I cant do it that way again. Just don't have a clear picture of hose runs, pressures and limitations.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[Mikey P]

If you only run 100 ft on each run and are prepared to do 4 to 5 dry strokes you might not over wet it.



Might.





Borrow another truck.

 

[John Watson]

Hey Jim Jim,Tweak that cleanco to a full 2 if you haven't already, get your Y from Greenie, you should have no trouble if you use a couple airmovers with it, Hope you have greenhorn wands OR go to 2 1/2 for your first 50 or 100 feet then Y to your 2 inch all the way to your wands, the low pile casino carpets should dry in a hurry for you. Jeff has all the parts you need to convert. That 2 1/2 smooth sweep EL works great and easy to install.

 

[Mikey P]

What do you think the chances are the Watson EVER dual wanded before?


Maybe If Helen brought along her sister.

 

[John Watson]

Hey suc suc, I was using 2 1/2 bumble bee hose in the early 80's this shit aint new I don't know about your steamway unit but both of my 1150A's came stock ready to suck with 2 1/2 and we had to use a flippen reducer to make 2 at the machine...Know I had the 1st 14 ft cube van with a roll up side door in 81 just to pack all that big hose..

 

[Willy P]

Hey suc suc, I was using 2 1/2 bumble bee hose in the early 80's this shit aint new I don't know about your steamway unit but both of my 1150A's came stock ready to suck with 2 1/2 and we had to use a flippen reducer to make 2 at the machine...Know I had the 1st 14 ft cube van with a roll up side door in 81 just to pack all that big hose..

I know the feeling. I have special underwear for the same reason.

 

[Jay D]

What rpm you turning the Blower at? Over 3000rpm with 14+ hg will work with 2 wands up to 150 ft per wand. I preface that with normal 1.5" wands with glides, 6 flow each, with no whip or 10' or less per wand. I've used this setup before and it works fine. It will not work great with 2" wands and 12 flow each. Plenty of vac for the smaller wands but you will lose heat. Keep your wand on the carpet all the time. My son and I have used this before several times and it works fine. It really helped alot when My back was hurt and my son helped me. Of course a 56 or better blower would be better but neither I or you has this machine. :roll:

 

[TimP]

11,000 ft job and you're worried about having to dual wand???? Yeah it would be nice to dual wand but by no means is it necesarry. You can do it in 2 days pretty easy with 1 helper. I've been averaging about 6000 ft a day single wanding some schools I've been cleaning. Yeah it's a hard day but look at it this way as long as the wand is moving you're making money, and right now I'm very glad to have some cash coming in. I vacuum, and run a cimex with my preconditioner in it and then come back and rinse. With 2 people you can switch off jobs and keep things going non stop and not get too tired. Also I'd recommend you use a high flow wand with glide other wise you'll die trying to work like that. If it's soiled pretty thick I recommend an emulsifier or at least a water softener, it will save you time trust me.

 

[Rex Tyus]

Jim I have a Cleanco Q56. It is PIMPED out. I am just now really satisfied with the results when dual wanding. I can't say from first hand knowledge but I really don't think it would be a good Idea to dual wand with a Stock 47 any account you will want to do again.

TimP has some good ideas. There are many things you could do to increase your speed single wanding.

I don't mean to sound negative but I am the guy that was dual wanding with a unit before he should have. We have overcome many issues. I would save you that grief.

 

[Jay D]

It will not perform like a modified grape ape TM pushing 300+cfm per wand like a 56 blower or larger machine pushing 12 flow per wand. He wants a suggestion of how to make it work. Simple math, your 47 will not perform like a 47, it will perform like 2- 33 blowers. If you can get the 47 to turn(under load) at 3,000rpm with 14+ hg and the plumbing is'nt too choked down, you can get about 200 cfm PER wand to clean with. Thats limited for a 2" wand but with a 1.5" wand it is enough to use effectively at 6 flow per wand set @ 600 psi. Don't forget typical 6 flow will put out 1.4-1.6 gallons per minute @400psi which is plenty to clean with. You just will not have as much heat as you might want. Use good prespray, dwell time, and it will work fine. :wink:

P.S. I have a 33 blower machine tweaked out and the vacuum is plenty good with a 1.5" hole glide wand. Try your setup on a empty house first to see if it meets YOUR expectations.

 

[Jim Morrison]

What rpm you turning the Blower at? Over 3000rpm with 14+ hg will work

2850 at 13". Supplier told me he could tweak it a bit.

2 wands up to 150 ft per wand. I preface that with normal 1.5" wands with glides, 6 flow each

OK, think I got you there...the 1.5" wand will increase the air flow? Still trying to get the filter box lid configured with 2 - 2.5" inlets. I was thinking of 2-150' runs, both having the first 50' at 2.5"

What do you think the chances are the Watson EVER dual wanded before?


Maybe If Helen brought along her sister.

Way to get him fired up. lol

Thanks for all the great replies
Jim

 

[Jay D]

SKIP the 2 2.5" outlets and hose, go directly 2" all the way out from PTO tank to the wand. Skip the whip hose if you can. Your current settings of rpm will net approx. 185cfm per wand with no AIR leaks(seals, cuffs, obstructions or inline filters/ dump the pool filters). More rpms=More cfm.

 

[Rex Tyus]

SKIP the 2 2.5" outlets and hose, go directly 2" all the way out from PTO tank to the wand.

Sorry to disappoint, VERY BAD ADVICE! No Offense Jay but this is wrong.

Skip the whip hose if you can.

For the same reason the above advice is wrong this advice is correct.

More rpms=More cfm.

Correct again.

BTW when you are dual wanding especially with a smaller blower the hg setting will be a NON issue. it will be like having you vac relief WIDE open. CFM is the concern when dual wanding. If you simply must do this. Have them "tweak" the rpm of the blower to the max that won't void your warranty, get the 2.5" super manifold from Greenie NOW. 2.5" hose as much as you can afford. 2" wands with hybrid glides a thick cotton towel in your pocket to lay on the wand slot when you take it off the floor and you might come out alright.

Not trying to sound negative, I just know what I am talking about when dual wanding with a Cleanco. Been working on this for 4 years.

BTW you will also need some heat.

 

[Jay D]

I am glad you been working with a 47 blower for 4 years, just as I have, but if the blower is not plumbed right 2.5 inch hose is a waste especially if you are running 2 of them. But the setup I described will work fine especially with 1.5" wands with glides. You are entitled to your opinion. The main thing with EITHER setup is to make sure you have no air leaks in the system to loose cfm. Hg at 13+ would be fine just do what rex suggested when you set down the wand, put a towel over the vacuum slot. A 56 or bigger blower is Ideal for dual wanding but in this system he has a 47. And Yes I have used a Cleanco PTO before, along with my EZ3047 I use now. I would not give this advice if I have'nt done it before.

P.S. If you are use to a HP TM then dual wanding With a 47 may not be right for you, It would be more old school type of performance NOT High vacuum and High heat cleaning like were use to today.

 

[Rex Tyus]

Jay we agree on pretty much everything except the 2.5". The sweeping manifold Greenie has available offers a dramatic contrast to the sharp 90 2" pvc that comes standard on the Cleanco. The Cleanco compact is plumbed perfect, the blower is sitting practically in the waste tank with a 4" diameter intake. 2.5" will make a significant improvement with that set up. It also has 2 2.5" stainless blower filters. It is screaming (literally) for a 2.5" intake upgrade.

 

[TimP]

It doesn't matter if the system is able to handle 2 2.5 ports as far as plumbing. You want it because you want to reduce as much restriction to the wand as possible (reduce the lift increase the CFMS and put the lift at the wand not the hose). However I would say that the cost to dual wand with a 47 blower that isn't plumbed well is a bit of a waiste. And if you're going to dual wand often do yourself a favor and get a machine big enough to do what you want or get a second TM. Running 1.5" wands and .06 flow IMO you might as well single wand because you're going to get the same net effect in rinsing and vac capacity, as long as you're running a high flow system.

I would say if you're serious about the need to dual wand you would get a bigger truck otherwise deal with the big jobs on a high flow machine with a single wand. Just switch off people and get it done.

 

[lance]

Pimp your machine with the above advice and also talk to greenie about a bayco valve. A 47 blower needs a 2.5 inch hose to reach it's potential.

A strong single wand will clean better and faster than duel weaker wands. With a helper not wanding things will go smoother and both of you won't be as tired. Draw up a cleaning plan before you start the job.

Commercial work, especially a casino, would be great for HWE and OP. Instead of cleaning out from the back, maybe clean the TL's into the building and then clean the less dirty areas on your way out. It would give you time to see how the early parts of the TL are cleaning up and how long it will take to dry.

Great meeting you at Mikeyfest. Hope everything will work out.

 

[Jay D]

i'M done commenting other then, what wands, glides, hoses, etc. do you have now? what size inlet and outlet pipe and silencer pipe size do you have on the blower. All this is a waste of time IF it aint plumbed right.

 

[Rex Tyus]

It is always easy to tell when you are dealing with a person that does NOT have any first hand experience with 2.5" hose.



They are the ones that say it is not needed or a waste or.......blah blah blah.

It must be a Texas thing. :roll:

 

[Jay D]

I been holding my niceness and trying to be tackful. But listen, Turkey I have run 4 to the door to the y and the whole enchilada, two inch wand, mega flow, the whole thing, change plumbing, the whole enlighten way to better carpet cleaning. And Yes it helped me get the carpet dryer in like 30 minutes quicker then when I used my 2" hose directly coupled to my 14" 1.5 inch green glided wand hooked up to my 47 blower Turning at 3600rpms. Dumb statements made by someone who has no idea what length of experimentation I have done to get the most performance out of my machine are just that Dumb statements. Yeah I guess its just a Texas thing.

P.S. I thought this was about finding a way to help someone out.

 

[Rex Tyus]

Like I said, that is a big loud NO on the 2.5" upgrade. :shock:

It is about helping someone out. Don't give him incorrect advice about a specific you have no first had knowledge. 2 2" hoses y'd 6 feet from the blower is a FAR CRY from running 2.5" from a proper manifold port to a 10' 2" whip. Stop listening to back yard engineeers, free your mind(and your blower).

You are correct in that if you have a 47(or larger)blower plumbed with a single 2.5" tube from blower port to waste tank, 2 2.5" hoses will not help much. HOWEVER, we are talking about a CLEANCO COMPACT. It was not designed or built in someones backyard in Texas. The guys that built this actually had a click, clack, and a clue. IT IS PLUMBED CORRECTLY. Therfore the 2.5" manifold upgrade will make a significant difference. I can't dumb it down for you any better than that.

Besides I thought you weren't going to comment on this anymore?

 

[Jay D]

I had no other comments until there was questions as to how I knew what I was doing. I have built personally 10+ different machines 33,36,45,47 and yes even a 56 blower machine And plumb them correctly with 2, 2.5, 3 and yes even 4" plumbing. I have run 4 out 75' into the door to a 25' whip. Been there done that. Back yard engineering will work 99% of the time and I don't have to rely on anyone else. I can change it if I want and if I don't like It I modify it. I was trying to help someone with the machine they had not get in a pissing match. Enough said by both parties. Good night.

P.S. Never did 2.5" hose, 2-2"hoses will move more air.

 

[Rex Tyus]

Good nite to you as well. I had no interest in getting in a pissing contest with you. Like I said we agreed on practically everything except the 2.5" You couldn't just accept that you wanted to keep digging at it. It is all good. By the time we through pissing on each others feet Jim will have gotten paid for the casino job. :mrgreen:

ps I couldn't help but notice you never did list a 2.5" manifold upgrade with 2.5" hose on your resume'

 

[Larry Cobb]

Jim;

From another Texan..... Two 2" hoses will flow more air than one 2.5".

The BIG problem is the 13" of lift max.

This is not enough for dual wanding, with any hose lengths over 100' each.

For this job, I would try to increase the lift and use 2 large vac hoses to minimize the loss of lift in the hose.

Larry Cobb

 

[Rex Tyus]

Larry respectfully,
are you sure you are posting on the right thread? Jim's question was about dual wanding with a 47 Cleanco. What the hell are you talking about?

 

[Farenheit251]

Aren't Casinos usually wool?

 

[Greenie]

Jim;

From another Texan..... Two 2" hoses will flow more air than one 2.5".

The BIG problem is the 13" of lift max.

This is not enough for dual wanding, with any hose lengths over 100' each.

For this job, I would try to increase the lift and use 2 large vac hoses to minimize the loss of lift in the hose.

Larry Cobb

I was gonna say, better not tell this to Michael Schoeny, he duals with a working HG of 8-10" and it would rival any machine I've ever seen in person for net vacuum at the wand. Of course it's plumbed correctly.
My point is, lift means almost nothing if you are moving so much air that you have very little restriction to register on a vacuum gauge.

Rex, what does your vacuum gauge show when dual wanding with your Cleanco 56?

 

[Rex Tyus]

8 to 10 with both wands on the floor. The releif point is set at 13. Only time I crack that is on water extraction or single wanding furniture with the drimaster. I gave up trying to explain the significance of plumbing to Larry. He has his mind made up and don't want to hear no facts from the field.

 

[TimP]

I kinda wish my machine didn't have so much restriction in it and was running lower lift and probably saving some fuel. Although it probably would kill the heat the salsa system puts out. Although if it would maintain 12-13 hg and pull harder at the carpet I don't think it would make much difference in heat.

My 47 blower when the wand is off the ground it doesn't sound like it's pulling near the air as Rex's cause he has a low restriction machine running 2.5" hose. I can tell you it sounds like his is twice as loud off the carpet. I wouldn't even try to run dual wands like he does. Also I don't know if you guys have noticed or not but when your lift gauge is higher the air moving is moving quite a bit slower....and that's why you don't want to run a lot of lift (unless you have a mega blower that can produce high cfms under high lift). The faster the air moves the faster the moisture is going to be pulled from the fiber to the waste tank, think about that one guys cause that's what makes the difference and why you want to get rid of restriction.

It would probably be tough to fix the plumbing on my cds but it probably could be done. I haven't measured it but I think the port coming off the blower to the tank may be 2.5" hose. If it is and was changed to 3" (or whatever it's supposed to be) I think I could save some cash in fuel and get better dry times. I can't figure out why hydramaster can't figure it out myself..... :roll: I suppose they don't figure people can push a wand if it was plumbed right.

 

[Greenie]

Blowers run hotter when restricted, that can be either intake or exhaust, my guess is your Salsa depends on the current blower plumbing.