Encap'ing w/ a 20" OP on CGD

[Derek]

howzit fellas :mrgreen:

for any heavier soiled accounts i may bump into, i had a few questions about Encap'ing w/ a 20" OP on CGD:

1) on a typical 5,000 sq.ft. job, was wondering how many pads you guys are going thru? (i could foresee going thru 50-75 EASILY...am i way off base? i only use a Cimex now and on a 5k job i typically only use 3 tuway pads)

2) what kind of pads are you using? (fiber or cotton or tuway or something else? for soil removal i can see cotton and tuway to be the best)

3) do you use the pads dry w/ no water? (because you are Encap'ing)


that's all the questions i can think of for now. thanks for any feedback --- Derek.

 

[Jimmy L]

You are SHAMPOOING Derek.......

There is NO encapsulation method.

 

[Derek]

i missed you to James :!:

 

[Jeremy]

50 Gladiator Pads is plenty unless it is absolutely destroyed. I run them moist/damp... Basically fresh out of the washer... If they're already dry & clean I'll pour 1-1.5 gallons of water into a 5 gal bucket of towels.

I generally order 10 or 15 towels a month so I always have fresh clean towels to replace the ones that wear out. After a while they eventually crap out... But they out last combo pads & especially cotton by a FREAKIN" METRIC CRAP TON.

If it's trashed I run a Tuway thin one first then come back with the absorbant pads to mop up. Some carpets need more towels than others... Anyway, the Tuways will help your Gladiators go farther...

Good to see you posting again Derek.

 

[hogjowl]

When I OP commercial, I use the Tuway pads. I have no idea how many you'll use, but it will be a lot fewer than if you were using cotton.

 

[Johnny]

What's a Tuway?

 

[Derek]

hiyas Jeremy & Martin...tx for the feedback fellas :!: :mrgreen:

i come across 2-3 jobs a year where i wish i had something (in the VLM category) more than the Mex.

the 15" Challenger just isn't practical... :?

John, a Tuway = a Tuway ThinOne, Tuway being the company that makes them.

thanx --- Derek.

 

[hogjowl]

I have two big commercial accounts that would really be good to have a mex to use, but the rest do really fine with the OP machine and an occasional hwe flushing.

Jimmy really IS right about encapsulation just being the new buz word for SHAMPOO!

And it won't be long before everybody knows it.

 

[Derek]

i have no doubt encap'ing with a large OP machine does a great job...probably comparable to or better than a Cimex. faster i can't see but perhaps as fast, depending on the job.

i just dont have a few grand sitting around to shell out for one and a couple hundred glad pads haha.

and i'd have to store it somewhere in the winter..UGH.

thanks goodness for my showerfed Mex freeze-proof :!:

 

[DavidVB]

Derek.

We are using our CX20 over the Cimex more and more. Actually the 2 machines make a nice combo.

We have tan cottons, tuways and glad pads. The tuways hold the most, but are not as aggressive as the cotton. The glads seem to be a nice middle point. Clark is waiting on a new pad that is a blend and a little heavier than the glads which appeals to me for commercial.

How many pads you will use depends on how dirty the carpet is and how much soil you want to take with you and how much you want to rely on the chemistry.

I agree that the word "encapsualtion" is a marketing word. However "shampoo" carries a lot of negatives due to old formulations. Moving from soap to detergents years ago was an improvement. Adding a polymer to cause the surfactants to group together in larger clusters has been a big improvement. Now I understand some are being made with flourochemical. That is a big improvement and my accounts demonstrate that. Some seem to want to keep bringing up the "shampoo" word to criticize the method. That's fine with me.

 

[hogjowl]

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I can say that I don't bring up the word shampoo to criticize the method. I use it, on occasion, to show my belief that "encapsulation" is a word used to sell a method that doesn't perform as sold. It's a commercial maintenance method. NOT a stand alone system, and CERTAINLY NOT a proper residential cleaning method.

I have been using the method for years and love the way it performs when used properly. However those who sell it as a restorative system must have never had the occasion to flush it after a year or so of using it. Because if they had, the dirty waste water they'd see would forever quell the tendency to speak of the removal of "encapsulated" soil from simple vacuuming.

 

[Mikey P]

I wuv my CX/20 more and more every day.





and guess what Marty?



nada!

 

[ron markam]

I dont know if improper vacumming is the culprit but i extracted a carpet recently and the water was pitch black.I do not do the janitorial so I can not speak about the maintenance on a daily basis.But anyone that has been using encap chems and the rinse I believe you will experience some nasty water.With that being said as long as we understand it is maintenace we will be o.k.

 

[DavidVB]

Maintenance is the primary objective in commercial carpet cleaning, unless we are just talkinig about small accounts like doctors offices which don't have enough footage to justify a maintenance plan. I find the new chemistry, used wisely, can greatly reduce the need for restorative cleaning.

I have extracted a lot of previously "encapped" carpet. One account I had encapped entrances and primary traffic lanes about 30 times. The water was dirty but there was no foam and I had used a high foaming product. I have also gone back and vacuumed heavily soiled encapped carpet a couple days later and watched the carpet come clean with each pass of the vacuum.

These discussions often occur without including the need to meet budgets. I'm happy to fire up the TM but I'm not going to do it for 8 cents. I also have committed to when we do restorative cleaning it will not be short cut to reach 1500 - 2,000 sq.ft per hour like my competitors do.

Which is better for a carpet, a quick splash and dash or a properly executed maintenance method? Until the mills convince facilities managers to increase their maintenance budgets, we will have to make those decisions.

 

[Desk Jockey]

 

[hogjowl]

Sure David ... there are almost always budgetary concerns involved in any cleaning situation. As long as you educate your customer regarding the method you're using, then (in my opinion) you're following an ethical line of business. However, if a professional cleaner is "encapsulating" their soils for later removal, all the while knowing that later never occurs, then that cleaner has crossed the line into what I believe qualifies as bait-n-switch cleaning.

 

[Mark Imbesi]

What Marty is trying to say is....it's like putting lipstick on a pig.....

 

[hogjowl]

You can blame Bob for that. He's been mad at me ever since I razzed him about a cut-n-paste post he made a few days ago.

Who knew he was so sensitive? :?

 

[richard]

I often encap/shampoo with mex and often op with an easy glide.
I also post pad with the EG after the mex. The glad pads typically turn black quickly on trashed cgd.
I also post pad after hwe and the pads get just as black just as fast. After encapping try post padding if hwe is not an option.

 

[Jimmy L]

5 methods of carpet cleaning as recognized by the IICRC.


1.HWE
2.Dry compound (Host)
3.Bonnet
4.Dry Foam
5.SHAMPOO



There is NO encapsulation method.
It is the SHAMPOO method.

 

[Ernie G]

When we give a proposal for a maintenance plan, we price it out at 20-36 cents a sq. ft. depending on how much sq. feet it is, and how often we are going to be cleaning it. Then we include in the bid all the methods that may be employed. We don't discount any of the methods that are used. We also charge extra for the first time restoritive cleaning.If there is no maintenance contract, we will offer a discount on the next cleaning if cleaned within 6 mos.

 

[hogjowl]

Jimmy:

Encapsulation was discussed and was found in the manual in the CCT course I took last week.

 

[Jimmy L]

No doubt a political move to increase SHAMPOO sales.

Everyone knows that the petry dish marketing ploy is BS.

The "REAL" residue when spread out and in a diluted form across the carpet is a POWDER.

NOT IN A CRYSTAL FORM.

And it doesn't encapsulate anything.

The "POWDER" simply doesn't stick to the fiber waiting (Note WAITING) to be vacuumed up.

It seldom is and merely settles to the backing resulting in a periodic HWE to flush it out.


SELDOM is explained by those unethical CIMEX shampooers who only run a pad and GRIND in the dirt.

Stay tuned for my eNcAPSuLATIoN do it your self SHAMPOO formula you can make at home to avoid paying $30 plus a gallon for SHAMPOO.

 

[richard]

Is that Orbot as aggressive as the other popular OP machines? I have an Easy Glide but I want something with a tank/sprayer on it.

 

[Derek]

5 methods of carpet cleaning as recognized by the IICRC...

and then i stopped reading.

i didn't know you to be a follower.

i'm so dissapointed.

 

[DavidVB]

Anyone who thinks there is nothing to learn from drying down various cleaning solutions in a petri (not petry) dish should have all his other opinions scrutinized.