Encapsulation vs HWE

CJ-FL

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CK-FL
I had a crew do a job today. A school to be exact. And in one of the room the maintenance department previously used Host GVX and Host SJ on half the room. The crew used out strongest Butyl Commercial Pre-Spray, scrubbed with a CRB and extracted at 600 PSI with devastators and couldn't get the 2 half's close to matching. Our half didn't look nearly as clean and/or light as the half the maintenance department had done. We're going back later this week to encap. it to hopefully get it more uniform. I have a couple questions hopefully somebody can help answering.
  1. There's the old "where's the dirt go?" joke.... but in all seriousness, without a thorough extraction, there's no way in my mind that Encapsulation can get carpet as "CLEAN" as Encapsulation. That does not, however mean the end appearance is superior. That leads me to believe encaps. have superior chemistry that make the carpet "look cleaner". Is this true?
  2. Assuming the answer to question 1 is true, what EXACTLY do encaps. do to make the carpet appear cleaner? (ie optical brighteners, oxidizers, reducing agents, etc...)
    1. I have a very basic understanding of their chemistry. My understanding is this.
      1. Pre-Vac the shit out of the carpet
      2. Spray encap. via power sprayer, pump sprayer, etc...
      3. Agitate via CRB, low speed, cimex, etc...
      4. Post-Vac the carpet..

The theory is, the encap. product goes on as a liquid and will break down and "absorb" oils, dirt, grease, etc.... The encap. product then dries to a crystal that can be vacuumed up, thus removing those contaminants. However, whether anyone believes the products ability to do this or not. How does the product make such a drastic and immediate visual improvement. I've heard quite a few of you all rely your experiences in that they do make an immediate and drastic visual improvement. BUT HOW?

3. Lastly, is my plan to follow up with encapsulation what you all would recommend? and any suggestions? I've never done it? I have access to CRB's as well as Cimex machines. The CRB's are local the Cimex is at another location about an hour and a half away. If it will be drastically better I can go get it.

I'm not looking for "it just works".... based upon alot of peoples feedback, I have no doubt it makes the carpet look great. I am looking for a technical explanation on how.

Thanks in advance


IMG_2321.jpeg
 
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Rick J

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,surely you have equipment. Thinking a 175 or even a 2 speed, , run an absorbant bonnet of some type under it after your HWE?
I know the chem you use are propietary SS stuff. Do you have available any that are extraction and Encapping ? Many mfgs. are now making them. Or at least they say they are!!! LOL; and can be used both ways :biggrin: (I like Scot's stuff) if so , you might use that in your flush. followed by bonnetting. avoiding and additional need to apply a different product.

I feel your pain, in this situation.
 

Swani

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I think encapsulation looks better because it scrubs the tips of the carpet giving an overall better appearance even though HWE does a better job at removing soil. Almost every time I do HWE on CGD I will encap afterwards because I know it will appear better and also help fight wicking. Just my theory. It would be my pick to go get your CIMEX and use botnets if you have them because they aid in absorbing moisture. We use a 175.
 

CJ-FL

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CK-FL
,surely you have equipment. Thinking a 175 or even a 2 speed, , run an absorbant bonnet of some type under it after your HWE?
I know the chem you use are propietary SS stuff. Do you have available any that are extraction and Encapping ? Many mfgs. are now making them. Or at least they say they are!!! LOL; and can be used both ways :biggrin: (I like Scot's stuff) if so , you might use that in your flush. followed by bonnetting. avoiding and additional need to apply a different product.

I feel your pain, in this situation.
Thanks for the reply... when you say "Scot's stuff". Who is that and what product. Secondly, have you had any luck with ReleasIt? They're right up the street from from me. We do have 175's local as well. In all honesty, i'm not sure if any of our products have encaps in them. @Mark Saiger looked at the MSDS sheets to a few of our products a few years back and mentioned our alkaline rinse had some in them, but I can't confirm.
 
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Rick J

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rick Jones
Now I really feel your pain. !!!!!:errf: really frustrating.

Are you sure your guys are doing everything correctly. Equipment working OK ? Hope they are not inadvertently cleaning with dump valve open. !! Try a clean white towel to check for wicking. ?
That is hard to believe.


WOW,, if Rick's place is right up the street you can't go wrong with his stuff... And; a lot of help along with it.
Scott's is a product line , I get it at my local Interlink distributor. Right close by. Going there right now to pick up my stock- up day chems.
 
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The Great Oz

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Skip all of the supposed theories. Encap is a shampoo that leaves a light-reflecting residue on the carpet. The residue does not attract soil because Teflon has been added. There's no "crystalizing" and no soil removal except what is removed by pre-vacuuming and what happens to stick to the applicator.

It will absolutely make a carpet look cleaner though.

Industry accepted practice is to encap no more than three times before extracting residue and packed-down soil. Otherwise you risk a build-up that will eventually start to attract soil and can't be removed for less than the cost of replacing the carpet.


As to this job, something is fishy.

The "maintenance department" made half of a filthy room look great using Host, and then left half to be professionally cleaned? Nope.

I'd ask the maintenance guys to do a little demo of their methods on the dark side. I'd guess they can't get the carpet clean, which is why you were called.
 
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Lee Stockwell
Encap has saved us many times in situations like the OP.

We can get a bit cocky with our experience, atomic chemistry, and our fire breathing truckmounts.

That's why I tell the boys "we are carpet cleaners- not steam cleaners or any other machine specific label".

Encap is a vital tool sometimes. Justin had one project at Woods Hall MSU that defied conventional processes. We beat it with this tool.

Always on the truck, just in case.
 

Rick J

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Skip all of the supposed theories. Encap is a shampoo that leaves a light-reflecting residue on the carpet. The residue does not attract soil because Teflon has been added. There's no "crystalizing" and no soil removal except what is removed by pre-vacuuming and what happens to stick to the applicator.

It will absolutely make a carpet look cleaner though.

Industry accepted practice is to encap no more than three times before extracting residue and packed-down soil. Otherwise you risk a build-up that will eventually start to attract soil and can't be removed for less than the cost of replacing the carpet.


As to this job, something is fishy.

The "maintenance department" made half of a filthy room look great using Host, and then left half to be professionally cleaned? Nope.

I'd ask the maintenance guys to do a little demo of their methods on the dark side. I'd guess they can't get the carpet clean, which is why you were called.
I would agree, something seems fishy!!!

BUT, if he is going back, and HWEing, again a dry bonnet could help, Not really true encapping. For sure won't hurt.
 

Hack Attack

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as has been mentioned, something is fishy

if their guys can get it looking good, why did they call you?

I cant tell from pic on my ph, it's not something as simple as a join with 2 different aged carpets?

Whats it look like from other side looking back?
 
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Cleanworks

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Many encap detergents have a peroxide element to them. One that I use from Harvard is called oxy encap pro. I have used it to take out coffee stains with an orbital cleaner. I recently did a car dealership office area that was wall to wall coffee stains. Used the orbital with the oxy encap pro just as a pretreatment and hwe'd it. Took out all of the stains. Bryan's point about light reflection is also true.
 

Jimmy L

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Question the product used to HWE and how much was applied
Might be that it wasn't all rinsed out
 
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Old Coastie

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CJ, I know there are other wonderful brands besides Releasit. But I can tell you, Releasit products are wonderfully effective and reliable. Go buy three bottles: DS2, Encap-Punch and Encap-Hydrox. Like Larry suggested, use a 175 and whatever pad Rick recommends and try them out. If you like what happens, get a Trinity or ECO (both large orbit) orbital machines for jobs like this.
Good luck!
 
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sOOper hero

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it's rare Stan uses pre-spray
who knows if they used more than a spritz ...or if their heavy hitter is even worth a spit??




and did I mention a CRB ain't sheeit compared to 100 pound rotary?
Only reason encRap will make it look a little better is due to rotoscrub action

Get some Prochem Exteme, mix it near double strength dilution, hammer that trashed rag at appx a gal RTU per 150-200sf
roto scrub w/red pad, flush/rinse extract

if the Stans know how to run a wand (so it doesn't wick like hell) it'll kick the Host's sides azz


BTW, did the janitors run out of "sponges" and that's why they only Host'd half? :headscratch:


..L.T.A
 

Cleanworks

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it's rare Stan uses pre-spray
who knows if they used more than a spritz ...or if their heavy hitter is even worth a spit??




and did I mention a CRB ain't sheeit compared to 100 pound rotary?
Only reason encRap will make it look a little better is due to rotoscrub action

Get some Prochem Exteme, mix it near double strength dilution, hammer that trashed rag at appx a gal RTU per 150-200sf
roto scrub w/red pad, flush/rinse extract

if the Stans know how to run a wand (so it doesn't wick like hell) it'll kick the Host's sides azz


BTW, did the janitors run out of "sponges" and that's why they only Host'd half? :headscratch:


..L.T.A
Who knows what the janitors used. Could be toilet bowl cleaner for all we know.
 

sassyotto

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Im a bit confused too. I used HOST exclusively for 8 years before going to HWE. No comparison. I can outclean HOST any day, any time with a TM.

maybe your CRB didnt have the right brushes for commercial work. I use brown for commercial with the Brush Pro 20. And being OCD I do brush in both directions (carryover from the HOST days)
 

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