Flow Rate

Erik

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Erik
I'm trying to get some info- What flow rate do you think works best with your truck mount to maintain temperatures of 190 and above? Be truthful, no BS. Choose from the following flow rates:

1. 5 flow

2. 7.5 flow

3. 10 flow

4. 15 flow

5. 20 flow
 
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Lumber Jack

Guest
I have a PC Legend and I just went up to10 flow and it is awesome cant believe the heat I have now, I cleaned today at @400 psi and the water was HOT.
 
A

amazingcleansc

Guest
Lumber Jack said:
I have a PC Legend and I just went up to10 flow and it is awesome cant believe the heat I have now, I cleaned today at @400 psi and the water was HOT.

it feels hotter if your flow is higher even though your temp is slightly lower.
 

Dolly Llama

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I think you guys need to go to Harbor Freight, spend $5 bucks and buy a digital meat thermometer .

Then measure the temp that hits the "fiber"

Tell me how much of a difference you "actually" get at the "fiber" going from 06 to 09, to 12


To answer Erik's question..
I think he's mentioned he's run Powermatics before, so he knows how hot they can get.
250 sustained at 2.1 gal pr minute...I "think" that's around 12 flow at 450psi

personally, I think the "fire hose" flow rates some of you guys are using is silly and unnecessary .
it's just a discussion board de'jour phenomenon

6 to 9 flow rates is all you need

.L.T.A.
 

floorguy

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meAt said:
I think you guys need to go to Harbor Freight, spend $5 bucks and buy a digital meat thermometer .

Then measure the temp that hits the "fiber"

Tell me how much of a difference you "actually" get at the "fiber" going from 06 to 09, to 12


To answer Erik's question..
I think he's mentioned he's run Powermatics before, so he knows how hot they can get.
250 sustained at 2.1 gal pr minute...I "think" that's around 12 flow at 450psi

personally, I think the "fire hose" flow rates some of you guys are using is silly and unnecessary .
it's just a discussion board de'jour phenomenon

6 to 9 flow rates is all you need

.L.T.A.


and i bet you like them shitty water spritzer showers they have in some hotel rooms huh :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


i like to know its rinsing me off....not spittin at me...

12 &15 here....
 

Dolly Llama

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floorguy said:
meAt said:
I think you guys need to go to Harbor Freight, spend $5 bucks and buy a digital meat thermometer .

Then measure the temp that hits the "fiber"

Tell me how much of a difference you "actually" get at the "fiber" going from 06 to 09, to 12


To answer Erik's question..
I think he's mentioned he's run Powermatics before, so he knows how hot they can get.
250 sustained at 2.1 gal pr minute...I "think" that's around 12 flow at 450psi

personally, I think the "fire hose" flow rates some of you guys are using is silly and unnecessary .
it's just a discussion board de'jour phenomenon

6 to 9 flow rates is all you need

.L.T.A.


and i bet you like them shitty water spritzer showers they have in some hotel rooms huh :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


i like to know its rinsing me off....not spittin at me...

12 &15 here....

I'm not a rookie Doug.
and I actually do a fair amount of side by side testing in a perfect proving ground too.
In rat hole empties .
Been doing that for 20 years now.
I don't jump on every band wagon just cause all the "me too" guys say so

We're currently running 2 GPM flow .
when it's time to change jets, I'm backing it back off a tad


..L.T.A.
 

floorguy

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Doug
i am not a rookie either, and no i dont do side by side..


HOWEVER


i cleaned for yrs with a porty explaining why the porty is as good can do as good a job :roll: :roll: :roll: yeah BS


cleaned for yrs with a 36 machine Stock, with 2 jets that pointed down, mind you stock..


found the boards, watched, read, asked questions....upgraded things i saw needed....


i ran for a few yrs with my pimped out 36 high flow high temp...

and most of it is NOT HYPE....


you still have to be smart as to what you do change/pimp
 
N

nwhmbiz

Guest
My AT will produce temps of 195-215 with 20 flow at 700 psi.
When dual wanding or rat nasties I fire up the #3 ht and set at 250 at the truck, anyone who says heat is overated has never cleaned with real heat.
 

Ron Werner

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I've bounced back anf forth between 10 (02's) and 15 flow (03's), even with the pressure cranked with 02's I've noticed a better clean with the 03's.
Really hasn't much to do with the heat though it is important as it does the rinsing action. I forgot to turn my LG up one time in a rat nasty, was probably only 180, and it still cleaned great because it was prepped well.
 

Zee

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.
Larry,

I have only been doing this for 11 years but according to my tests that I have done
It is different when I run a higher flow wand. (45blower with kero/diesel fire)

I have cleaned some homes that didn't come out as good as they did next time around with the
Upgraded flow.

To answer eriks question I run 20 flow with a 14"Greenhorn between 500-600 psi.
 

sweendogg

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Erik are you talking about 190 at the truck, 190 at the top of the wand or 190 at the carpet wand interface. I run a 15 flow greenhorn on a non salsa CDS and can get about 175 on a warm day.
 

handdi

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Randy
we run 10
i tried 15 on a sushi rest we do every month
2 wands 1 at 10 and 1 at 15
i could not tell any difference at all except the 50 bucks i spent on new jets
i stayin with 10 we run fresh water tanks
so runnin 15 would use more water
like i said i could'nt tell any diff
of course les told me the same thing but
i had too try it anyway
i'll sell some 03 i have 5
 

Joe Bristor

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Mar 22, 2010
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It would be cool if you mechanical guys, Meat, Jim M. Foster, etc would accumulate all the data for all the various systems... a table that lists truckmount (model, yr, blower), versus atw temp for various flow rates.
 

Loren Egland

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Loren Egland
I wonder if 10 flow on some machines with pressure regulators instead of unloaders and with 3/8 inch solution hose instead of 1/4' would put out the same water flow as the other set up running 15 flow. What do you think?

Measure the actual gallons per minute flow is the only real data.
 

Able 1

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I'm kind of a newbe, but with the higher flow your getting the heat off the HX'er faster... I run 9 flow on my Peak cause 12 was too much as far as killing my heat. Every TM will be different I think running 12 flow on my Apex will be just fine and probably the sweet spot. With lower flowing wands your not really taking advantage of what your TM is putting out IMO.

With low flow the heat is just sitting in the lines cooling on the ground till you trigger again, and then it's just really warm.
 

Dolly Llama

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meAt said:
Able 1 said:
With low flow the heat is just sitting in the lines cooling on the ground till you trigger again, and then it's just really warm.

depends a lot on your duty cycle.
Operators that typically use longer "on the trigger" duty cycles will notice less temp gain with higher flow at the jet than those with short trigger duty cycles .
ASSuming the flow isn't choked down below 06.
Like most of the 2 jet wands w/04 flow

I think you guys will be amazed at how little of the heat at the wand actually makes it to the "fiber"

Sweendog took some ATF measurements with different flow rates, recently .
I don't remember seeing the temp differential .
I do recall he said he was surprised to see there wasn't much difference ATF with higher flow


..L.T.A.
 

Mike Draper

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Jan 13, 2008
Messages
4,402
meAt said:
floorguy said:
meAt said:
I think you guys need to go to Harbor Freight, spend $5 bucks and buy a digital meat thermometer .

Then measure the temp that hits the "fiber"

Tell me how much of a difference you "actually" get at the "fiber" going from 06 to 09, to 12


To answer Erik's question..
I think he's mentioned he's run Powermatics before, so he knows how hot they can get.
250 sustained at 2.1 gal pr minute...I "think" that's around 12 flow at 450psi

personally, I think the "fire hose" flow rates some of you guys are using is silly and unnecessary .
it's just a discussion board de'jour phenomenon

6 to 9 flow rates is all you need


I think to get an more accurate reading of "at the fiber temps" you need to have the same wand with different flow setups. Get the hot water coming out with no vac hose connected and take a reading with a thermal imaging system. This will prolly give you the most accurate "at the fiber temps" you could want from any type of instrument.
.L.T.A.


and i bet you like them shitty water spritzer showers they have in some hotel rooms huh :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


i like to know its rinsing me off....not spittin at me...

12 &15 here....

I'm not a rookie Doug.
and I actually do a fair amount of side by side testing in a perfect proving ground too.
In rat hole empties .
Been doing that for 20 years now.
I don't jump on every band wagon just cause all the "me too" guys say so

We're currently running 2 GPM flow .
when it's time to change jets, I'm backing it back off a tad


..L.T.A.
 

Mike Draper

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Joined
Jan 13, 2008
Messages
4,402
I think the most accurate way to get a reading at the fiber would be to get 2 identical wands with different flows. Get the water coming out hot. Then without the vac hose hooked up, key back and forth strokes across a room while someone is taking readings with a thermal imaging system. I believe this would give you the most accurate reading possible of "At the fiber temperatures". You would especially be able to see and read the temp differences with different flows. there may be no heat difference between a 12 flow and a 20? Who knows until this is tried?
 

Joe Bristor

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Mar 22, 2010
Messages
303
yep, there's more variables...solution hose ID, & length, and # of QDs. oh yeah, ambient temperature.

But wait, there's Able's variables... trigger frequency... that affects heat output too. right?

So you wanna define a specific jet size for all to use? Good luck. Better just stock em all cuz there's as many choices as there are cleaners. I would think the discussion oughta center around a goal, like optimum heat output, or shear force at a given shear angle.

You guys been tossing around high flow all this time, how bout some summarization for the mortals just trying to make the most of what they got?

I'm hoping for more general conclusions in the form of a table that we could all refer to, to eliminate misconceptions like "With lower flowing wands your not really taking advantage of what your TM is putting out IMO."
Fact is, lower flowing wands are a necessity with some systems so as not to override the lower heat generating capability of some systems, right? (Nellos' mini tms and US Products portables come to mind, killer heat at lower flows).
graph atw temp vs gpm flow and systems like these are at the bottom of the curve and Steamways, etc with their high heat @ high flow systems are at the top.
Right?

Do our homework and jet size goes from a choice to a variable that delivers predictable results based on the interaction of all the other variables.

Short of that, we could make from general observations that would apply to the various systems out there. right?
Put em in a table for all to read.

Meat, I was using thermometers ATF on my HydraHOE maybe 12-13 yrs ago. Not very reliable. Built-in wand models are much more useful imo. All I learned from ATF tests was that jets 6" away from the fiber is not as good at cleaning as the same heat is at 3" from my PC tri-jet. Duh.
With high shear, your 1.0" to 1.5" away. That's huge as far as getting heat to the fiber.

It's analogous to cfm testing. You could have listened to the stick in the mud naysayers who resisted it with their 'you don't need that...' or 'oh you can't do that cuz hair gets stuck in the airstream.' Or you can just go ahead and do the testing...measure it at the end of the vac hose (top of the wand) like hundreds of cleaners have done, Thge results are indirect, yes, but they can (and are) be directly applied by the average cleaner in his attempts to maximize his vacuum ATF. I've never helped a cleaner do these tests who didn't come away with bold statements like, "OK, here is what I'm going to do ..."It's powerful (and fun) to take that guy from 'I wonder ...' to 'I know ...'
I Guarantee you ain't gonna get this stuff from any showroom salesman reading from some labcoat sales brochure.
This is driveway stuff.

In the case of testing water temp, forget about ATF measurements unless you're prepared to spend a ton a dough like Jeff Bishop did, what was it 10 yrs ago? Sure, heat drops off big time as it hits the fiber, and fact is, you're not gonna get very usable results trying to do your measurements? I sure didn't. All I ever got was a sore back and a big headache. But when I went to the permanently mounted inline thermometer, I was in control for the first time. As an average Joe, I could measure temps ATW and come away with results I could immediately apply to help maximize my heat ATF.
So, have you done it inline Meat? If so, let's see your data.
I bet it would more scientific, repeatable, applicable than any ATF testing.
 

sweendogg

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David Sweeney
I did that with a digital thermometer on different wands one running 12 flow one running 10 flow and one running 15 flow.

I still haven't put the videos together yet.. I know I'm lazy. But running my machine with extraction, so I took measurements at a few different pressures first with the 02's... Then I installed the 03's and took different measurements. It was consistantly higher temp.. (granted by only 5 degrees)

I Ran a prochem quad jet with 03's vs. 02's on my green horn and I was getting 158 about from the 02's greenhorn, and getting 163 from the quad jet with 03's on a 65 degree day. Then I upgraded to the 03's and I was getting about 170 at the carpet so I did see a jump up on the temp.

The pressure and temps were consistante for both 400 and 600 psi. at 600 psi I was putting out 1.7 gpm on the 10 flow greenhorn, 1.9 on the 12 flow quadjet and 2.2 on the 15 flow greenhorn on my bucket testing. But with the 03's on the greenhorn I actually I can usually do a single extraction pass in almost every place when I still felt I needed to do an 2nd in several places with the 02's.

And again this is a non salsa 2008 CDS Hydramaster 4.8.

The surprising part was how quickly the fibers loose the heat. The larger the flow the slower the decrease in temp but still it drops pretty dramatically. I wish I had a flir to see just how quickly the heat disipates after each stroke.
 

Erik

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Erik
C Pennington said:
Are you running a 5 jet with 02 on the ends. do you notice pile distortion, and does it clean better to the edge?
 
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Lumber Jack

Guest
I can tell you my 10 flow wand vs my 6 flow. My 10 flow is way hotter the rising steam about 2 feet tells me all I need to know. I haven't used my roto vac for two weeks now. The cleaning power is amazing.
 
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Lumber Jack

Guest
Not that much the jets sit very close to the carpet I have a high shear kit on my wand. So the heat is getting to the carpet fibers.As I pull my wand back the carpet is still releaseing the steam. Its hard to say what is doing more, the HS kit or the added heat. I would say the added heat,as far as dry times that would have to go to both the hotter water is evaperating more but the high shear is not pushing the water so deep. But with the added flow I'm getteing better flushing of the carpet fibers.
I cleaned a house today empty repo house but it had about 1000 sf carpet 1.5 -2 hrs to clean when I finished the first room opened windows to vacate moisture in air. when I was done clening went back to groome carpets almost to dry to groom in first room.
I'm cleaning about 450 psi my TM is cycling hot water so the flow has not hindered my heat output, I have modded my TM and one mod was removing my blower HX so all I have is a cat ex hx 05 PC Legend. I bumped my rpms up to 3300 rpms max on all engine,blower is 3600. So still under max specs for everything.
Oh yeah my wand is starting to make the Pop sound when I trigger it. I think because the water is nice and hot. I want to get some jets for my PC 4 wand 10 flow to see if I get the same results.
 

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