Flow Rate

[Dolly Llama]

I think the most accurate way to get a reading at the fiber would be to get 2 identical wands with different flows.

egg-zaccally

Get the water coming out hot. Then without the vac hose hooked up, key back and forth strokes across a room while someone is taking readings with a thermal imaging system.

I'm not so sure those thermo temp readings would be so accurate, Drapes
(for the application of measuring jet spray ATF)
I saw someone trying to use one before to measure spray temps...it didn't work so well and readings varied all over the place

I believe this would give you the most accurate reading possible of "At the fiber temperatures". You would especially be able to see and read the temp differences with different flows. there may be no heat difference between a 12 flow and a 20? Who knows until this is tried?

we disagree, cause I don't think you can much more accurate than actually putting a temp probe directly under the jet stream

Those thermo guns aren't that expensive anymore.
sacrifice one outing with your AR and what you save in ammo will buy you one. :mrgreen:

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Joe, yes I "had" an ATW temp device once.
I built it myself a few years ago.
and used it a couple times til the thermometer stem and thermo head BLEW out of the holder and smashed against an apt wall... :shock:
Guess I didn't make it as well as I thought I did....

anyway, I agree it's much easier to read temps with a wand lie detector....however, where the spray hits the fiber is where the rubber meets the road.
as you mentioned and know, wand designs..in particular jet to fiber length has a HUGE impact on heat to the fiber .
The ATF temp tests I did years ago are skewed due all the parameters not being the same.
IE..different ambient air temps, and longer sol line runs and 100 psi less...but with a 2 jet 06 flow wand, the best I could get ATF was 146.
An identical 04 jetted wand showed an anemic 120 (if I recall right)
with a stock Ti 06 flow, I recorded a top temp ATF of 180

Our Ti wand now if flowing 2gpm @450psi (bucket test) and has long jet extenders .
unfortunately, the one time I decided to measure temps, the battery was dEd in the thermometer.
Been too lazy, or never think to buy another one when at the places that sell them.
So I've done no temp tests on the extended jets and increased flow.
Maybe I'll get on the stick and remember to do that soon

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Lumber Jack, I'm a believer in the shear angle effect.
However, on a wand with out wings, the fly in ointment "I'm" finding is getting them to work well at 450-550+ psi without splashing all over the place .
I wonder if the additional steam you're seeing isn't due (at least in part) to the jet spray "ricochet" effect ?


..L.T.A.

 

[Lumber Jack]

this is very interesting,, So when you go buy a 1200 wand and it has higher flowing jets and now we are like this wand is awesome the heat is amazing it cleans so good, To the average guy he really does'nt know I,,,, I mean he could have got same results with 30.00 jets

 

[Guest]

I think you guys need to go to Harbor Freight, spend $5 bucks and buy a digital meat thermometer .

Then measure the temp that hits the "fiber"

Tell me how much of a difference you "actually" get at the "fiber" going from 06 to 09, to 12


To answer Erik's question..
I think he's mentioned he's run Powermatics before, so he knows how hot they can get.
250 sustained at 2.1 gal pr minute...I "think" that's around 12 flow at 450psi

personally, I think the "fire hose" flow rates some of you guys are using is silly and unnecessary .
it's just a discussion board de'jour phenomenon

6 to 9 flow rates is all you need

.L.T.A.

I agree, and I bought into the high flow early. I'm back to 2" hose and back to 6 flow, and cleans exactly the same.

 

[daniel@procarpet]

Maybe it is just me, but I demoed several gh, bentley, and a few other wands at Mikefest and in person here from other cleaners and the wands with 8 flow or higher just did not have the cleaning power that my 6 flow wand has. The wands when keyed may have been putting out slightly more water but not with the power. I would have to use a higher flow wand for a few jobs to determine if it actually cleans better or is just hype. I agree the higher water temps would be better but I could tell right away that all this notion of one pass cleaning or double the water volume was just hype. Basically I am saying that my wand would clean better or just as good as a higher flow wand. That is just my observation along with extensive testing with three different glides that all restrict air flow and hamper cleaning reslutls. If I were to switch today to a 12 flow on my 4 jet, I would not expect a dramatic boost in performance. The job would take about the same amount of time.

 

[Mike Draper]

True testing results requires more than just looking at how some carpet cleaned up o reading the board. How about testing to see if one hose has more suction than another" with a CFM gauge? WE could test the carpet dry times with instruments as well and watch the difference with a thermal imaging system. What about a permanent temp guage on the wand to see how fast heat truly gets to the carpet on high flow vs. low flow with the same types of wand. what about testing with a thermal imaging system that will show the true temp as the water comes out of the jets on 2 same wands with different flow rates. I believe this would be called testing, not just sampling a wand.

 

[Loren Egland]

Someone mentioned how fast the fiber cools. It is probably because the fiber does not get very got with a wand because it is just passing through, like running your finger through a candle flame.

Try a high heat system with a Rotovac with those heat chambers and move the RV slowly. Those fibers will take some time to completely cool down. So more dwell temperature at the fiber will heat the fiber up.

 

[Dolly Llama]

what about testing with a thermal imaging system that will show the true temp as the water comes out .

Drapes, have you ever tried it?
Have you ever seen it done?


..L.T.A.

 

[Mike Draper]

ive looked at through them a few times. read about them quite a bit. but i've never done testing with them. i believe it would work though. my friend flies an apache with thermal imaging, he says they are bad ass...........................................for shooting people.

 

[Ron Werner]

One other factor, mentioned long ago but never really considered much, is the water droplet size.
Take a 06flow 2jet wand. There's less flow but its just a short version of a 5 jet 15flow wand, except for the water flow.

If we're talking flow wrt getting the hot water from the truck to the floor, then the 15 flow wand would be better, plus it cleans a wider path.
If wrt cleaning and flushing, why not a 12flow 2 or 3 jet wand with 06 or 04 jets. Bigger water droplets carry more heat, more impact,
but would there be more surface tension, ie would the droplet make less actual contact with the fibre surface area to flush it?