Onfire_02_01
Member
I would move next door to him If I could.I'd move closer to @Mark Saiger ..................
For all the night owl cleaners
- Thread starter Kevin De Medeiros
- Start date
Onfire_02_01
Member
yep. Most of us on this board wouldn't do it either. But we are not talking the people on this board. The people I am talking about are they types that are happy that they have a job and are looked up to in their circles because they have a steady income and own something. They aren't out driving the scrap truck or flipping burgers for minimum wage. There is a lot to be said for those who have the gumption to do it on their own, even if they aren't at the top of the pile. They are also not driving around nice trucks, most are rusted out along the bottom and have 30 year old Fix Or Repair Daily machines (FORD). It is the way that they choose to do their business and as long as it works for them.... There will always be customers for them, some people will never pay $30 per room to have their carpets cleaned, they would rather rent the rug doctor from the store and do it themselves, but if they can find a $10 a room guy they will be happy to pay that amount for "better then Rug Dr." results.
At that price, more than likely they are getting encap.
Cleaning method is always discussed during estimate. I spend EXTRA time explaining the difference between encap and hwe. It's info they need to know. Also, give them options - most bids are broken down: steam clean, hwe and combo(both).
Onfire_02_01
Member
I try to do that too but we have a few companies who do HWE for that price. They are 1-2 guy oppereations who have rusted out vans and 20 year old truckmounts. They have the mentality that as long as they are working and paying rent they are happy, retirement and profit are not main concerns for them. For some not having a boss is what it is all about!
Topnotchcarpet
Member
I stay really busy so I don't do night work. I only work 3-4 Saturdays a year. It's commercial and I get paid really well for doing it.
Mikey P
Administrator
I gave a bid on a rehab camp yesterday. 30 years old and always done by the on site by the resident maintenence man. He REALLY holes we get the gig.
But at .55 to vac, red pad and Zipper I doubt it.
.35 for future Cimex work if they let us rinse it first and ever six months thereafter
Could be our first "contract" gig
@ $20k per month per druggie, I think they can afford the best.
But at .55 to vac, red pad and Zipper I doubt it.
.35 for future Cimex work if they let us rinse it first and ever six months thereafter
Could be our first "contract" gig
@ $20k per month per druggie, I think they can afford the best.
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See that's why I could never land and didn't acquire Applebee's. They wanted me to do it for around that same price every month. I told them $300 was the lowest I would go, and that was monthly not quarterly
Then we're in the same ballpark on pricing, because I said the same thing to them, except I didn't tell them monthly. If they ask, I'll say exactly the same thing you said. I don't put up with these franchises telling us how much they'll pay us. I'm still waiting on a freaking check from Walmart almost 60days ago. If I don't see a check this friday, they'll be getting a call from small claims court, and then a call from my lawyer
Desk Jockey
Member
We charge the same for Encap or HWE, the situation dictates what system we use where. With Zippers we can clean consistently over 1000sq/ft an hour with minimal effort, very close to that of a Cimex.
How far a distance from the truck, security (is there a need for a locked door), soil load, content manipulation, open areas or cubicles. We basically sell time, the longer it takes us the higher the sq/ft rate method or multiple methods affect it some but for the most part its still time. HWE takes longer to setup but you need additional help to supply solution to the operator of the Cimex, or production goes down.
How far a distance from the truck, security (is there a need for a locked door), soil load, content manipulation, open areas or cubicles. We basically sell time, the longer it takes us the higher the sq/ft rate method or multiple methods affect it some but for the most part its still time. HWE takes longer to setup but you need additional help to supply solution to the operator of the Cimex, or production goes down.
Lee Stockwell
FOJL
But the carpets look really bad Matt...
Mikey P
Administrator
Probably would have paid cash had he used a Cimex
smartass
Sooooo you have a truck mounted CIMEX, be cause you always slag anyone who uses portable equipment - but you readily admit to using a PORTABLE cimex to do your evil deeds. Or is it a truck mounted cimex......
Cleanworks
Moderator
Probably uses a generator on the truck to power the cimex. Cause, you know, truck mounted electricity is more powerful than portable electricity. Wait a minute. Isn't truck mounted electricity portable?
steve_64
Member
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2012
- Messages
- 13,371
I'm cleaning two Bob Evans monthly for $200. Takes an hour no product just fwr.
Two pizza huts quarterly one for $200 one for $300. Small one takes an hour the other an hour n a half all moving furniture me and Genny got another twoo for ,$300 whenever they call about every two months.
All get done at 9 or 10 pm.
I don't feel they are a big deal and the money is good I like it better than residential because I don't need to deal with anyone. Just get in and get out quick as I can.
Cleanworks
Moderator
That's good money
You could be a little higher and if you do tile & grout throw out a bid to them for quarterly cleaning of just the front of house tile including bathrooms and offer to split that cost up on monthly invoices to balance their P& L so they won't have "spikes" in their monthly P& L.
Or offer to do sections of tile (if their layout lends itself to doing this) and rotate available tile into groups of 3 (by doing this all tile gets a quarterly professional cleaning) and you can also then add $50 or so to each invoice.
We get a little more but we also put chairs back down and make sure all condiments are in perfect order when we leave so they don't have to lift a finger the next morning
TomKing
Supportive Member
Interesting read through this thread.
Couple of thoughts.
Lots of people look at commercial as the same as residential in their pricing structure because it is carpet. It is not.
Most do not understand the business structure to how retail and restaurant managers are reimbursed. Billy gave a hint that you must look at how to help them with their P&L. I own a retail store and if I had to get my 4000sf of show room cleaned. I would want to pay about $150 - $200 quarterly. I don't care what your expenses are of running your business that is all I could budget in and be profitable. That would be a big expense for us. I also know my show rooms could be cimexed in about 45 minutes open areas only with two techs and machines. I also know if you where hustling you could pull a hose and HWE the entry areas really quick.
You have to look at commercial as how much you earn per man hour, not pricing by the square foot.
You also have to hustle. Commercial is a dance there is no time for missed steps, wasted trips or ass dragging.
Commercial works great if you build a route and look at what does the truck earn for the shift.
2 guys can do 4-6 jobs in a 8-9 hour shift. The more you run the same route the faster you get.
Start at 6.p.m. go to 2-3 a.m.
Job
#1 $175 doctors office 1 hour.
#2 $250 A level office 1.5 hours 2 Cimex
#3 $700 Retail quarterly clean 2 hours 2 Cimex
#4 $ 175 Restaurant HWE 1.5 hours
#5 $250 Restaurant HWE 1.5 hours
Total $1550 total night on the truck
Cost for night $433
Net on the night $1,117
Earnings per hour $86.11 per man hour. This would be looked at in most industries as a fantastic per employee hourly rate.
Employee #1 $16 per hour $173 with burden
Employee #2 $18 per hour $195 with burden
Mileage 65 $1 per mile $65 gas & Chem
The critical business minds will want to add a bunch of overhead. Most O/O run out of their garage or a barn. The small multi trucks like us run a second sift with 1 or 2 trucks in the evening. There is not a lot of extra overhead in fact in a small multi truck your trucks are earning you no money after 6p.m most nights. This is all bonus profits.
$1100 4 or 6 times a month would transform most small 1-2 truck companies.
It would add $20-30k to the owners personal income or simply just allow you to keep that extra staff member you need for the busy residential seasons.
$1000 4 nights a week 16 days a month is $192k truck more than a lot of O/O total gross or small multi trucks have as a per truck average.
The hard part of commercial is building the routes.
You start with second Monday of the month. Don't do the first Monday holidays get in the way. Then first Tuesday. Start your routes by being out every Monday night each week.
Refuse to clean Friday Saturday, Sunday. Tell the client I can not get quality help that is dependable, clean cut and drug free asking them to work any night or any time of the day.
They have families and want the same things we want Friday night pizza with their friends, Saturday morning games with their kids.
I rarely ever have to concede to something other than Monday to Thursday evenings when I have shared that with a client.
6-9er work is the best it can be added on the day very easily. Day time commercial is even better. Lots more of it out there than you think.
Commercial is KING. It brings stability to your cash flow, does not have seasonal dips and when scheduled correctly is very profitable. It takes the pressure off!
Just my thoughts and our experience.
Couple of thoughts.
Lots of people look at commercial as the same as residential in their pricing structure because it is carpet. It is not.
Most do not understand the business structure to how retail and restaurant managers are reimbursed. Billy gave a hint that you must look at how to help them with their P&L. I own a retail store and if I had to get my 4000sf of show room cleaned. I would want to pay about $150 - $200 quarterly. I don't care what your expenses are of running your business that is all I could budget in and be profitable. That would be a big expense for us. I also know my show rooms could be cimexed in about 45 minutes open areas only with two techs and machines. I also know if you where hustling you could pull a hose and HWE the entry areas really quick.
You have to look at commercial as how much you earn per man hour, not pricing by the square foot.
You also have to hustle. Commercial is a dance there is no time for missed steps, wasted trips or ass dragging.
Commercial works great if you build a route and look at what does the truck earn for the shift.
2 guys can do 4-6 jobs in a 8-9 hour shift. The more you run the same route the faster you get.
Start at 6.p.m. go to 2-3 a.m.
Job
#1 $175 doctors office 1 hour.
#2 $250 A level office 1.5 hours 2 Cimex
#3 $700 Retail quarterly clean 2 hours 2 Cimex
#4 $ 175 Restaurant HWE 1.5 hours
#5 $250 Restaurant HWE 1.5 hours
Total $1550 total night on the truck
Cost for night $433
Net on the night $1,117
Earnings per hour $86.11 per man hour. This would be looked at in most industries as a fantastic per employee hourly rate.
Employee #1 $16 per hour $173 with burden
Employee #2 $18 per hour $195 with burden
Mileage 65 $1 per mile $65 gas & Chem
The critical business minds will want to add a bunch of overhead. Most O/O run out of their garage or a barn. The small multi trucks like us run a second sift with 1 or 2 trucks in the evening. There is not a lot of extra overhead in fact in a small multi truck your trucks are earning you no money after 6p.m most nights. This is all bonus profits.
$1100 4 or 6 times a month would transform most small 1-2 truck companies.
It would add $20-30k to the owners personal income or simply just allow you to keep that extra staff member you need for the busy residential seasons.
$1000 4 nights a week 16 days a month is $192k truck more than a lot of O/O total gross or small multi trucks have as a per truck average.
The hard part of commercial is building the routes.
You start with second Monday of the month. Don't do the first Monday holidays get in the way. Then first Tuesday. Start your routes by being out every Monday night each week.
Refuse to clean Friday Saturday, Sunday. Tell the client I can not get quality help that is dependable, clean cut and drug free asking them to work any night or any time of the day.
They have families and want the same things we want Friday night pizza with their friends, Saturday morning games with their kids.
I rarely ever have to concede to something other than Monday to Thursday evenings when I have shared that with a client.
6-9er work is the best it can be added on the day very easily. Day time commercial is even better. Lots more of it out there than you think.
Commercial is KING. It brings stability to your cash flow, does not have seasonal dips and when scheduled correctly is very profitable. It takes the pressure off!
Just my thoughts and our experience.
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Bob Pruitt
Member
Excellent post Tom! Commercial has always saved us when the economy takes a hit or whatever. Steady income is always a good thing.
hogjowl
Idiot™
Reality is refressing here.
Insurance, workers comp, repair and maitanence, equipment upgardes and depreciation, and other incidentals are just what comes off the top of my head that a lot of o/o don't include in the equation. I do love my monthly contracts as they give me some very stable footing.
TomKing
Supportive Member
That's what with burden means. When you refer to how much a employee costs. I multiply times 1.2 of the hourly or annual salary.
$1 per mile gives you the $.55 cent per mile for running the truck. $.45 cents per mile for the incidentals, chemicals, etc. It gets you in range.
If a truck ran 20,000 miles .45 cents would give you $9000 for those expenses annually.
.55 cents gives you $11,000 for the truck depreciation gas, oil changes and modest repairs.
The actual cost of purchasing the truck would come out of profits. Most new rigs can be had for 7 years at about $1000 per month payments.
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The problem is you can't get a soul to work for $20 an hour here. Then there's another 3 or 4 dollars an hour for gov. pension and uneployment insurance. When the wages are in the 20 dollar range you have another 200 a month on a health benefits plan to chew on if you want someone to stick around. 1.89 % workers comp. There's still profit but not as much as you might think. The 100 dollar an hour club needs more than 100 dollars an hour if you want gravy on your potatoes.
TomKing
Supportive Member
So what you saying is socialized medicine is free to everyone but the employers.
No wonder Anthem is dropping about every state in the union for coverage.
Glad we don't face that. Hopefully we can prevent it this year.
Sorry, I wasn't clear. The $200 will give you a bare bones dental, prescription, etc. plan. Our provincial health care is around $78 a month and that is doctors, hospitals, etc. with no co-pay or other costs involved.
Robert Webb
Member
I don't think there is a correct answer for everyone. We have depended on commercial work to survive the last 27 years and I wouldn't have it any other way. Saying that, if I was concerned about how much I was making per square foot I probably wouldn't be in business right now. I walk into a restaurant and think about how long It will take me, and how many workers I would need, and go from there. I don't even measure restaurants anymore.
We work from 11am to about 3pm everyday doing residential and commercial rentals, then we usually work 930pm till 1130pm on restaurants. This works for me cause I like night work and hate early morning stuff. I prefer waking up at 830 and relax with my breakfast in my office doing whatever I want and prepping for the day. Then we do large commercial stuff on Saturday (which is where I make most of my money)
This is the perfect business for me cause I could tailor it to the hours I like.
We work from 11am to about 3pm everyday doing residential and commercial rentals, then we usually work 930pm till 1130pm on restaurants. This works for me cause I like night work and hate early morning stuff. I prefer waking up at 830 and relax with my breakfast in my office doing whatever I want and prepping for the day. Then we do large commercial stuff on Saturday (which is where I make most of my money)
This is the perfect business for me cause I could tailor it to the hours I like.
J
JS41035
Guest
All day homey.
Cleanworks
Moderator
You have to balance your sqft prices with the time it is going to take you. I try to average $150 per hour for a single man and vehicle. On some jobs, we make up to $300 per hour, on others we're lucky to make $100 per hour. I am constantly changing my set up and equipment to optimize different situations. We are starting to encap more where hwe isn't absolutely necessary. Most commercial customers don't really know much or care about the method you use. Use what seems appropiate to you and charge accordingly.
