Harris Research Non Compete

Hoody

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Oct 24, 2007
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6,358
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Bowling Green, Ohio
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Steven Hoodlebrink
hopefully none of you multi-truckers have employees reading this.

This board is the reason I stuck it to my old boss......just kidding. I actually talked to a lawyer, and acted according to their advice. Different states work differently if you were a partner, or had a managerial role in the business as well.
 

CrazyRay

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Oct 26, 2012
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98
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Dallas, tx
Name
Ray Waits
Obviously I can't suggest what you should do, that's what lawyers get paid big bucks for. Just 2 cents worth of my experience. First, I think that an employee/sub-contractor non compete is viewed differently than a franchise non compete. I don't know that for sure but I do know that the well known franchise companies don't hire dummies for lawyers.

As far as carpet cleaning companies go, mine was fairly large. I was up to around 30 technicians in north Texas. When I hired, they signed a non compete as part of their employee or contractor agreement. Now an independent contractor signing a non compete sounds crazy and completely non-enforceable. What I learned from my experienced law firm was that if the contract was reasonable in length and scope it was enforceable. At least to some degree. Especially if there was proprietary knowledge that the tech gained while working for me.

Shelling out hard earned cash to lawyers for a law suite is the last thing I want to do. It's a deterrent and it works. That's how I used it. A franchise, in order to survive, must ensure that the franchise owners can't easily go out and start their own competing business. Otherwise people would be jumping ship left and right. Franchise contracts are very hard to get out of easily. At the very minimum it will cost you big $$$$$. That's the catch. It's like Hotel California, you can check in any time you like, but you can never leave.

With no experience, you can have your own business with all the systems, policies, procedures, training, products, support, etc. handed to you. For the price of admission, that is. Once you know what you're doing the royalties you pay in, not to mention being locked in to buying everything from them, is hard to swallow. They have control. I know two brothers each owned a Rainbow franchise. Both wanted out, which they finally accomplished. It took years and cost a small fortune though. I wish you luck.

I am curious though, if you do go on your own how do you explain to any crossover customers what you' ve been telling them about hot water extraction all these years?

Ray W.
...of Rugs to Riches fame
Dallas, Tx
 

Greg Cole

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Sep 30, 2009
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Kennesaw GA
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Greg
All valid questions. Territory - there are 6 other franchisees in my area. Equipment and method - I am limited as to what products and equipment I can use. We are presently in the midst of changing again and if I am to stay up to date and in the good graces it will be another 12k investment. Lastly, I am tired of being told where I can go, what method I can use, and being charged for every job given to me by Harris. I can do this just as well or better myself and I would like to truely be SELF employeed rather than answer to a franchise. 25 years is long enough.
Tired of being charged for jobs given to you by Harris? You do realize that once you leave they won't be giving you jobs right?
Now, their requiring you to update your equipment is a sticking point i can understand. mcDonalds is forcing all their franchises to spend $250k on updating their stores to have a coffee bar.
You should discuss with the franchisor on reducing the % paid for a period of time to offset the added expense. Trust me - 25 years in - you are making a huge mistake. Failure to enforce franchise movement is a seperate issue and can be terms for revokation of their UFOC. Talk to an attorney before you do anything!
 

rwcarpet

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Joined
Dec 6, 2009
Messages
3,084
Location
Youngstown, Ohio
Name
Robert Hodge
I don't know about non-compete, but CD might ban you from entering or shopping at Homo Depot, their parent company! (just my opinion)
 

ruff

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Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
11,010
Location
San Francisco, CA
Name
Ofer Kolton
As far as carpet cleaning companies go, mine was fairly large. I was up to around 30 technicians in north Texas. When I hired, they signed a non compete as part of their employee or contractor agreement. Now an independent contractor signing a non compete sounds crazy and completely non-enforceable. What I learned from my experienced law firm was that if the contract was reasonable in length and scope it was enforceable. At least to some degree. Especially if there was proprietary knowledge that the tech gained while working for me.
It's agreed and is a given that he will need to consult a lawyer. The rest here is all personal opinions.

As usual, it depends on states and TX as we know, is very business friendly. However, there could be hardly any proprietary knowledge that belongs just to any business.

What is it?
The angle one holds the wand. The pre-sparay ratio? Thoroughness? Attention to detail?
There is practically nothing he can't learn on this very board (technique or chemistry) that is proprietary to any business, unless it was legally patented.


Now, part of the trick franchises and employers use is intimidation. They want people to believe that they can prevent them, usually, they cannot.
Certainly, he can not use their name, some of their specific marketing or anything that is patented without permission, but he ain't dumb, is he?

Last I've heard nobody yet patented clean carpet.
Or taking good care of clients. Unless we are talking about Gerg's famous "package" (for which there are many interpretations here :winky: )

Shelling out hard earned cash to lawyers for a law suite is the last thing I want to do. It's a deterrent and it works. That's how I used it. A franchise, in order to survive, must ensure that the franchise owners can't easily go out and start their own competing business. Otherwise people would be jumping ship left and right. Franchise contracts are very hard to get out of easily. At the very minimum it will cost you big $$$$$. That's the catch. It's like Hotel California, you can check in any time you like, but you can never leave.

With no experience, you can have your own business with all the systems, policies, procedures, training, products, support, etc. handed to you. For the price of admission, that is. Once you know what you're doing the royalties you pay in, not to mention being locked in to buying everything from them, is hard to swallow. They have control. I know two brothers each owned a Rainbow franchise. Both wanted out, which they finally accomplished. It took years and cost a small fortune though. I wish you luck.

This is the US of A. Lawsuits are the national sport, that's what we do for fun. Anybody can sue anybody. Some companies will sue even if they know they will lose, it's called intimidation. What they ask is: Can you take the financial burden of dealing with the court expenses? Scare tactics, and many times unfortunately it works.

Is William willing?
Is it worth it for him?


I am curious though, if you do go on your own how do you explain to any crossover customers what you' ve been telling them about hot water extraction all these years?
Obviously, the same way they did when they switched to their current "Dry" method!

Or tell them the truth (which may set him free): He's finally seen the light! :winky:

Ray W.
...of Rugs to Riches fame
Dallas, Tx

Ray and Greg make excellent points and indeed they do come from the other side of the fence. So, I am sure that they have given that issue a lot of thought. I also assume that their concern would be preventing their subs or franchisees from doing what William wants to do.


Keep us informed.
 
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Barry-QDCC

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Feb 4, 2012
Messages
554
Location
Jurupa Valley, CA - So. Calif.
Name
Barry Rhoads
Well being a chemwho guy for that long, you may not be as good as you believe- at cleaning carpets.

.
Mis-information goes both ways. I was a CD for 14 years and I never felt I was doing a crappy job. In fact I won alot of customers AWAY from Steam cleaners. I've seen plenty of shitty jobs performed by steamcleaners. But I'm smart enough to know its more about the technician doing the job than the equipment used. So Zee when I read comments on here like yours it actually persuades me to disregard EVERYTHING you say.

I'm an independent now and certainly not what you'd call pro-CD - but on the other hand not anti-cd either.

Having gone thru pretty much what Sandwedge is going thru, alot of what you guys say HRI will or or won't do is not correct. Many of you should not be giving advice for something you don't know about.

I talked with Sandwedge on the phone today.
 

Steve Toburen

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Joined
Oct 23, 2006
Messages
1,912
Location
Durango, Colorado/Santiago, Dominican Republic
Name
Steve Toburen
Talk to an attorney before you do anything!
Exactly! (I doubt anyone here stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night!)

Steve

PS Moving beyond the legal side, have you thought about SELLING your Chem-Dry franchise? Traditionally one advantage of being a franchisee is the parent corporation will assist you (for a fee of course) sell your company. (Usually to another franchisee who wants to expand.) Sure, you'll need to include a non-compete as part of the sale but you are already facing that. But now you can coast for a couple of years off the sale proceeds before you start up again free and legally.

Or the other alternative is to move outside of your service area. I'm just saying...
 

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