Trevor Truitt
Member
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2007
- Messages
- 72
I'm actually for nationalized health care. It will ensure our economic "demise " within my lifetime and I think we will be the better for it. We need to learn to stand on our own feet again.
Health Care
- Thread starter Scott S.
- Start date
Trevor Truitt
Member
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2007
- Messages
- 72
Here's more:
"The federal government's fiscal exposures totaled approximately $53 trillion as of September 30, 2007, up more than $2 trillion from September 30, 2006, and an increase of more than $32 trillion from about $20 trillion as of September 30, 2000," Walker said. "This translates into a current burden of about $175,000 per American or approximately $455,000 per American household."
David M. Walker, the Comptroller General of the United States and head of the GAO
Then he resigned.
Read the rest of the GAO report here:
http://www.fms.treas.gov/fr/07frusg/07frusg.pdf
Add free health care on top of that. Now you owe the gov. a million dollars.
"The federal government's fiscal exposures totaled approximately $53 trillion as of September 30, 2007, up more than $2 trillion from September 30, 2006, and an increase of more than $32 trillion from about $20 trillion as of September 30, 2000," Walker said. "This translates into a current burden of about $175,000 per American or approximately $455,000 per American household."
David M. Walker, the Comptroller General of the United States and head of the GAO
Then he resigned.
Read the rest of the GAO report here:
http://www.fms.treas.gov/fr/07frusg/07frusg.pdf
Add free health care on top of that. Now you owe the gov. a million dollars.
Mike Draper
Member
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2008
- Messages
- 4,402
Hey Mr. Liberal Devildog. Our country spends 385 BILLION a year on illegal immigration, from welfare to prison expenses to free Healthcare for illegals. So you and the media say the war is bankrupting us, double or triple the cost of the war and see what is really bankrupting us. I would be happy to send you the complete break down in government stats on where every dollar of that 385 billion is to illegals is going yearly.
Lets ad universal health care on to this next section and watch our nation go completely bankrupt!!! Not that it's not already close to it anyhow!!!!
The federal government's long-term financial obligations grew by $US 2.5 TRILLION last year, a reflection of the exploding costs of Medicare and Social Security benefits as more baby boomers reach retirement age. As reported in a USA Today analysis, American taxpayers are on the hook for a record $US 57.3 TRILLION in federal liabilities to cover the lifetime benefits of everyone eligible for Medicare, Social Security and other government programs. That's $US 500,000 per household. When the liabilities of State and local governments are added to this, the total rises to $US 61.7 TRILLION. That's $US 531,472 per household, more than four times what Americans owe in personal debt and mortgages. This is now front page news on USA Today.
truckmount girl
1800greenglides
Brad,
We're no a corporation. Sole proprietors.
Take care,
Lisa
We're no a corporation. Sole proprietors.
Take care,
Lisa
I feel kinda sad for people who cannot afford it. stuff is like gold. can save your life and keep you outta the hole.
Canada's health care is decent but they do alot of phone calls and stuff with the patients so the patients don't not have to drive. and so that they can cover more patients. but it's not as thorough as our method, but everyone has health care.
I know these things because i dated a Canadian for a year. she was allergic to everything.
Canada's health care is decent but they do alot of phone calls and stuff with the patients so the patients don't not have to drive. and so that they can cover more patients. but it's not as thorough as our method, but everyone has health care.
I know these things because i dated a Canadian for a year. she was allergic to everything.
truckmount girl
1800greenglides
I told my husband he needs to kiss my ass.
Take care,
Lisa
Take care,
Lisa
ruff
Member
So, let me get it right.
You do not want universal care because you do not want to pay for others?
Wow!!
Wait till you get bumped by your health insurance and you will find out that you can lose your life time savings in one hospital stay.
Health care is a basic human right and should never have been a for profit endeavor.
In this country (wife works in health care) only the very rich and the very poor can get good health care. The rich because they have a lot of money and the poor because they have none. The rest of us are ******.
You'd think that politicians will take care of the majority of the population but I guess the lobbyists rule.
We might be without any health care, we might lose our life time savings, we might not afford to even pay for our drugs when we retire, but hack, at least we do not pay for these damn...others.
A great comfort indeed.
You do not want universal care because you do not want to pay for others?
Wow!!
Wait till you get bumped by your health insurance and you will find out that you can lose your life time savings in one hospital stay.
Health care is a basic human right and should never have been a for profit endeavor.
In this country (wife works in health care) only the very rich and the very poor can get good health care. The rich because they have a lot of money and the poor because they have none. The rest of us are ******.
You'd think that politicians will take care of the majority of the population but I guess the lobbyists rule.
We might be without any health care, we might lose our life time savings, we might not afford to even pay for our drugs when we retire, but hack, at least we do not pay for these damn...others.
A great comfort indeed.
kolfer1 said:
Spoken like a true socialist. :roll:
Please show me in the constitution where it says that health care is a guaranteed right.
Universal health care = Rationed health care any way that you look at it.
Brad_Smith
Member
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2006
- Messages
- 179
It's not that we don't want these "others" to have health care. It is because we don't want the service to go farther down the shitter. Let people who will actually use the service come up with the plan.
Nothing is Free!
Nothing is Free!
truckmount girl
1800greenglides
The service in nations with universal health care is not in the shitter. In fact I would dare to venture that it is as good or better than anything any of you are getting (or would get) now, because few if any of you are rich enough to pay for services/drugs/procedures that your current insurance would refuse to cover.
Even if taxes were raised, it would probably be a lot less than what you (or the employer) is currently paying in premiums, copays, out of pocket expenses and prescription drugs. You wouldn't be tied to a job for the health benefits, and you wouldn't need to worry about your employer going out of business, or losing your coverage for another reason and then being denied insurance later because of age or pre-existing conditions.
Kolfer1 is correct, if you are destitute, you will be covered, but if you're middle class, and are faced with a devastating medical expense, you must become destitute before you get aid. You must sell your house, cash in your retirement and savings, and empty your bank account before you will get aid.
Here's what happened to me. I was covered under my ex-husbands policy from work with Kaiser. When we divorced my coverage ended, but having kids to support and a drastic reduction in income, but no reduction in expenses, I could not afford to get my own policy within the transfer period. Having Lupus and having had a TIA (mini-stroke) made me uninsurable, so now, even if I could afford an expensive policy, I would not qualify.
You guys who are relying on your spouses policy better remember that you are a death or divorce away from possibly joining the rank of the uninsured and uninsurable.
Take care,
Lisa
Even if taxes were raised, it would probably be a lot less than what you (or the employer) is currently paying in premiums, copays, out of pocket expenses and prescription drugs. You wouldn't be tied to a job for the health benefits, and you wouldn't need to worry about your employer going out of business, or losing your coverage for another reason and then being denied insurance later because of age or pre-existing conditions.
Kolfer1 is correct, if you are destitute, you will be covered, but if you're middle class, and are faced with a devastating medical expense, you must become destitute before you get aid. You must sell your house, cash in your retirement and savings, and empty your bank account before you will get aid.
Here's what happened to me. I was covered under my ex-husbands policy from work with Kaiser. When we divorced my coverage ended, but having kids to support and a drastic reduction in income, but no reduction in expenses, I could not afford to get my own policy within the transfer period. Having Lupus and having had a TIA (mini-stroke) made me uninsurable, so now, even if I could afford an expensive policy, I would not qualify.
You guys who are relying on your spouses policy better remember that you are a death or divorce away from possibly joining the rank of the uninsured and uninsurable.
Take care,
Lisa
Mike Draper
Member
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2008
- Messages
- 4,402
Thanks Joey, Socialism is correct!! By the way, can I use some of your money to have my baby delivery bills paid for?? I have a right to your money Joey!!!!!!
The current system has much be desired. However, our expectations of insurance continues to rise. We want everything paid for by the insurance company from well child visits to prescription drugs to dental. For most if we took advantage of the medical savings plan and continued to increase deductible as the savings grew we would be in good shape in a couple of years (obviously this does not apply to those with preexisting conditions). I don't know what the answer is but my wife is from Canada and I don't want what they have. Her brother almost died of a heart condition while being on a waiting list for 18 months to see a "specialist". Their plan don't cover prescriptions or dental either. It is certainly better than nothing but it is not what the libs in America make it out to be.
No offense intended to my Canadian brothers (in law).
No offense intended to my Canadian brothers (in law).
ruff
Member
Joey Johnston said:
If I knew that you really knew what Socialism is all about I would respect that.
1) "government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth." Abraham Lincoln. That my friend is real socialism. Not what you were brained washed about. Do not confuse Communism with true socialism.
2) The constitution was written by people and for the people. It has been amended quite a few times to suit specific needs. For example the pledge of allegiance: One country, undivided UNDER GOD." Under god was added in this century because communism was perceived to be godless. I perceive denying health care to be godless.
hogjowl
Idiot™
It's because of people like Lisa that I am seriously considering voting for Obama. I am a life long voting Republican, but the suffering of working people like Lisa make me more liberal as time goes by.
hogjowl
Idiot™
The same one the guarantees you clean air and water.
Just so I'm clear. I'm not saying the current system doesn't need work. It certainly does. We just don't agree on what the changes should be. Some believe adding more bureaucracy and government involvement is the answer. I simply disagree with that solution.
There are a lot of other solutions that I am in favor of starting with tort reform and health care savings accounts. The way the system is set up now people who are covered by some sort of insurance do not question costs related to health care because it's covered so they don't care what it costs or if that procedure is really necessary. That is also one of the reasons that government provided health care would not work. Rex hit on probably the best solution and that is health savings accounts in combination with higher deductible or catastrophic insurance coverage. If these were widespread the open market would automatically cause some other things to start happening such as people seeing a nurse practitioner instead of a "doctor" for most of your lesser ailments. Or switching to using midwifes instead of MD's to deliver babies from low risk pregnancies. The truth is a MD is actually overkill for most ailments and by using nurse practitioners, midwives, etc you would increase the supply of health care and the market would reduce the price.
The bad news is none of this can happen overnight. The good news is some forward looking people have already started putting some of this in place. For example CVS has started testing the idea of having nurse practitioners on staff at their stores. You go in and they have a menu of services that they provide along with, now get this, a PRICE LIST. Imagine knowing what a procedure or prescription will cost up front. This is the beginning you all can understand what will happen if it catches on and eventually you have more than one place in town with this type of program. Competition will make the service better and the price lower.
There are a lot of other solutions that I am in favor of starting with tort reform and health care savings accounts. The way the system is set up now people who are covered by some sort of insurance do not question costs related to health care because it's covered so they don't care what it costs or if that procedure is really necessary. That is also one of the reasons that government provided health care would not work. Rex hit on probably the best solution and that is health savings accounts in combination with higher deductible or catastrophic insurance coverage. If these were widespread the open market would automatically cause some other things to start happening such as people seeing a nurse practitioner instead of a "doctor" for most of your lesser ailments. Or switching to using midwifes instead of MD's to deliver babies from low risk pregnancies. The truth is a MD is actually overkill for most ailments and by using nurse practitioners, midwives, etc you would increase the supply of health care and the market would reduce the price.
The bad news is none of this can happen overnight. The good news is some forward looking people have already started putting some of this in place. For example CVS has started testing the idea of having nurse practitioners on staff at their stores. You go in and they have a menu of services that they provide along with, now get this, a PRICE LIST. Imagine knowing what a procedure or prescription will cost up front. This is the beginning you all can understand what will happen if it catches on and eventually you have more than one place in town with this type of program. Competition will make the service better and the price lower.
