Heat Drying, Structural Drying

[Eric]

Color Tech Restoration, a Dryout we did in Morrison Colorado, 5-29-09 thru 6-1-09. The water was a result of lots of rain water that came in through the foundation. We dried two rooms, one conventional and the other using heat. In the heat dried room the walls, ceiling, contents and carpet were very wet. We put tabs under the furniture and dried everything in place in the heat dried area. We did not float the carpet (Top Down Drying) in the heat drying area. We started drying 5-29-09 and by 5-31-09 all the walls, ceiling, contents and carpet were dry in the heat drying area. The heat dried room smelled horrible. There was cat odor as well as a extreme musty odor. When we were done there was no odor, in fact the resident commented on the fact there was no odor. Using heat the bacteria is killed thus eliminating the odors. The second room we dried by conventional methods and this took an extra day to dry. This room was mostly carpet drying and a small area on one wall needed dried. We did float the carpet in the room. We dried using conventional drying and this area was dry by 6-1-09. We used 8 air movers, ELE 6400 and the VapairVent Ventilation System. 2 air movers for the area dried by conventional methods and the remaining equipment was used in the heat dried area.
Eric
Color Tech Restoration
http://www.colortechrestoration.com/

Heat Drying Equipment
http://www.driheat.com/

 

[Cameron1]

Dang...........sounds alot like the e-tes 240 I just bought, and you're right........heat does make a difference.

 

[Eric]

Dang...........sounds alot like the e-tes 240 I just bought, and you're right........heat does make a difference.

You are right, but the e-Tes is not NEC ® compliant. The e-Tes has much fewer watts and cost more. Since it not NEC ® compliant you can not run it over 3 hours at a time without being NEC ® compliant . The e-Tes does not even come close to the temperature rise of ELE 6400 and with the e-Tes you need a air mover, not with the ELE 6400.

The ELE 6400 is 120vac. Up to 6400 watts of power, seft contained fan, no need for external air mover.

 

[Cameron1]

Dang...........sounds alot like the e-tes 240 I just bought, and you're right........heat does make a difference.

You are right, but the e-Tes is not NEC ® compliant. The e-Tes has much fewer watts and cost more. Since it not NEC ® compliant you can not run it over 3 hours at a time without being NEC ® compliant . The e-Tes does not even come close to the temperature rise of ELE 6400 and with the e-Tes you need a air mover, not with the ELE 6400.

The ELE 6400 is 120vac. Up to 6400 watts of power, seft contained fan, no need for external air mover.

Wish you had not told me that......................I just ran it for 5 straight days...........worked like a champ

 

[Eric]

Dang...........sounds alot like the e-tes 240 I just bought, and you're right........heat does make a difference.

You are right, but the e-Tes is not NEC ® compliant. The e-Tes has much fewer watts and cost more. Since it not NEC ® compliant you can not run it over 3 hours at a time without being NEC ® compliant . The e-Tes does not even come close to the temperature rise of ELE 6400 and with the e-Tes you need a air mover, not with the ELE 6400.

The ELE 6400 is 120vac. Up to 6400 watts of power, seft contained fan, no need for external air mover.

Wish you had not told me that......................I just ran it for 5 straight days...........worked like a champ

I was not trying to put down your equipment, this is tes’s fault for selling non NEC ® compliant equipment. If you used a 50amp plug you are OK. The problem you can have that is most important to you is you could pop 30amp breakers and that should protect you. Tes needs to correct this problem.

 

[ken horvath]

Steve,

Heat is a great tool. No doubt.

Have you asked yourself why a manufacture would knowingly sell you something that is not National Electric Code compliant as instructed to use?

Now that you know will you stop using the product in your clients homes? Will you have a serious talk with the person who sold it to you? Would you thank and appreciate companies that knowingly use non-compliant equipment in your home? Around your family? Maybe even while they sleep?

This isn't a product against product issue. This is a basic safety and trust issue.

 

[ken horvath]

lost the bottom of my post.

Yes, they need to address this and I have personally brought this up to them. I love heat and don't want heat knocked because of lazy manufacturing.

 

[Bill Bruders]

Eric
Can you supply us with the third party certification document of NEC compliance normally a manufacturer gets their product UL or ITL certified as proof of compliance with NEC since NEC itself doesn't do compliance testing. It's quite common for manufacturers to say they use UL certified components as an example but that doesn't make their product UL listed or "certified ". There are many other tests that need to be completed including burn tests on the plastic etc. and regular visits to the factory that produces the product to insure that the product continues to be manufacturer to the specs of the "certified" specimen.

 

[kmdineen]

It is my understanding that the maximum amp draw of the E-TES (6200 watt, 240 volt) is 25.6 amps, but the continues amp draw is 24 amps. That should put the E-TES in the NEC compliance range along with the ELE 6400 and Phoenix Firebird.
It is also my understanding that the E-TES 240 puts out more BTU's per volts (circuits) used than the ELE 6400. The claim that the ELE 6400 has a greater temperature rise than the E-TES is because the E-TES moves far more air at greater static pressure than the ELE 6400, however by choking back the air movement on the E-TES the temperature rise should be as good or greater than the ELE 6400.
The ELE 6400 seams like a good piece of equipment. Don't spoil it by using Chemdry or Viking Restoration type of negative marketing where the focus is talking about how bad the competition is instead of the qualities of your own products or abilities.

 

[Eric]

Dang...........sounds alot like the e-tes 240 I just bought, and you're right........heat does make a difference.

The biggest item I get calls for and jobs is drying hardwood floors. Most customers don’t understand heat drying but they do see there is a benefit in drying hardwood floors faster. Using the ELE 6400 you can sand bag or duct tape the plastic sheathing down to the floor and then duct the heated air from the ELE 6400. I have had super success in drying hardwood floors this way. Here is a link to my page for drying hardwood floors, http://www.colortechrestoration.com/ind ... Drying.htm.
Eric
http://www.colortechrestoration.com

Heat Drying Equipment
http://www.driheat.com

 

[Eric]

Eric
Can you supply us with the third party certification document of NEC compliance normally a manufacturer gets their product UL or ITL certified as proof of compliance with NEC since NEC itself doesn't do compliance testing. It's quite common for manufacturers to say they use UL certified components as an example but that doesn't make their product UL listed or "certified ". There are many other tests that need to be completed including burn tests on the plastic etc. and regular visits to the factory that produces the product to insure that the product continues to be manufacturer to the specs of the "certified" specimen.

Hi Bill,
To be NEC ® compliant the electrical unit can run at 80% of the breaker size. That means a 30amp breaker can run a maximum of 24amps. A 15amp breaker can run at a maximum of 12amps. The ELE 6400 uses 11.67amps/circuite. NEC ® compliant is minimum for a very basic electric code. You will need 2 circuits in most cases using the ELE 6400 and that will give you about a 50 degree temperature rise. This is all I need unless the temperature in the house is very low. I work in the mountains of Colorado and have seen temps requiring a 3rd circuit, Once. The most important issues when using heat is getting the heat UP. The ELE 6400 does not have high cfm. That is the one reason you can get higher temperatures. You use air movers to distribute the heat in the drying area and a downdraft fan the bring the heat back down to the flooring and back out to the walls The TES uses higher cfm (air mover) and that cools the heated air down. This isn’t rocket science, higher heat will dry faster. I usually dry at 115 –120 degrees using the ELE 6400. All I can say is I have used the eTes and the ELE 6400. The ELE 6400 way outperforms the eTes period. That is real field experience.
Eric
http://www.colortechrestoration.com

Heat Drying Equipment
http://www.driheat.com

 

[Desk Jockey]

Using the ELE 6400 you can sand bag or duct tape the plastic sheathing down to the floor and then duct the heated air from the ELE 6400.

I wouldn't suggest doing that, the heat and time can easily cause you problems when removing the duct tape.

We don't even use 3-M tape any more because of it pulling finish off wood floors.

Sand bags are your best bet!

 

[Eric]

Using the ELE 6400 you can sand bag or duct tape the plastic sheathing down to the floor and then duct the heated air from the ELE 6400.

I wouldn't suggest doing that, the heat and time can easily cause you problems when removing the duct tape.

We don't even use 3-M tape any more because of it pulling finish off wood floors.

Sand bags are your best bet!

De-natured alcohol takes the glue right off.

 

[SRI Cleaning]

I never understood why the e-tes costs thousands and you have to add your own airmover. It even makes it look hokey. Why not build it in?

 

[Eric]

I never understood why the e-tes costs thousands and you have to add your own airmover. It even makes it look hokey. Why not build it in?

I see you are Pennsylvania. My dad is from DuBois. I think they took one of their heat exchanger boxes used on the other TES systems, added a heating element, stick a air mover in, presto Done. Just a fast way to get a electric on the market.
Eric

 

[Bill Bruders]

Hi Bill,
To be NEC ® compliant the electrical unit can run at 80% of the breaker size. That means a 30amp breaker can run a maximum of 24amps. A 15amp breaker can run at a maximum of 12amps. The ELE 6400 uses 11.67amps/circuite. NEC ® compliant is minimum for a very basic electric code. You will need 2 circuits in most cases using the ELE 6400 and that will give you about a 50 degree temperature rise. This is all I need unless the temperature in the house is very low. I work in the mountains of Colorado and have seen temps requiring a 3rd circuit, Once. The most important issues when using heat is getting the heat UP. The ELE 6400 does not have high cfm. That is the one reason you can get higher temperatures. You use air movers to distribute the heat in the drying area and a downdraft fan the bring the heat back down to the flooring and back out to the walls The TES uses higher cfm (air mover) and that cools the heated air down. This isn’t rocket science, higher heat will dry faster. I usually dry at 115 –120 degrees using the ELE 6400. All I can say is I have used the eTes and the ELE 6400. The ELE 6400 way outperforms the eTes period. That is real field experience.
Eric
http://www.colortechrestoration.com

Heat Drying Equipment
http://www.driheat.com

Eric
I have a very solid understanding of NEC compliance as well as UL, CSA CUL and ETL. I'd suggest you foucus more on the features of your product as it relates to drying than draw safety comparisons to other manufactureres products since you may find you do meet all the requirements either :wink: Also couldn't you have chosen a slightly diferent name than to play on the Dri-Eaz name?

 

[Desk Jockey]

Not to be a jerk, but your company name needs work too.

Colortech Restoration, doesn't sound like a WDR company.

It's sounds like an apartment dye company that does restoration.

It's obvious from the Colortech website you're much more than that, that's what puzzles me about the name.

Not that were original with our name either! :wink:

 

[Eric]

Not to be a jerk, but your company name needs work too.

Colortech Restoration, doesn't sound like a WDR company.

It's sounds like an apartment dye company that does restoration.

It's obvious from the Colortech website you're much more than that, that's what puzzles me about the name.

Not that were original with our name either! :wink:

I started with Color Tech Carpet Dyeing back in the early 80’s. I started Front Range Restoration in Denver for my son. I started Color Tech Restoration because the search engine showed Color Tech Restoration instead of Color Tech Carpet Dyeing. I am a Master Carpet Dyer and there are very few people out there that do carpet dyeing and even fewer with the number of years experience I have. I love carpet dyeing but there only so many jobs out there for carpet dyeing. I don’t do apartments.
Eric

 

[Desk Jockey]

Oops!

I do like Front Range Restoration! 8)

 

[kmdineen]

I never understood why the e-tes costs thousands and you have to add your own airmover. It even makes it look hokey. Why not build it in?

The E-TES costs about the same as a large LGR dehumidifier, not bad when you consider what it can do.

I see the E-TES's ability to use different air movers as a benefit not a liability. I use a 1 hp air mover with the E-TES to lift large areas of carpet or to force air in to a wall cavity. I use lower cfm air movers to raise the temperature of a drying chamber and wet material using as little electricity as possible. Being able to use different air movers makes the E-TES more versatile.

 

[Cameron1]

I never understood why the e-tes costs thousands and you have to add your own airmover. It even makes it look hokey. Why not build it in?

The E-TES costs about the same as a large LGR dehumidifier, not bad when you consider what it can do.

I see the E-TES's ability to use different air movers as a benefit not a liability. I use a 1 hp air mover with the E-TES to lift large areas of carpet or to force air in to a wall cavity. I use lower cfm air movers to raise the temperature of a drying chamber and wet material using as little electricity as possible. Being able to use different air movers makes the E-TES more versatile.

Kevin.....can you explain how lower cfm's translates into "little electricity"

Is because of quicker drying?

 

[kmdineen]

I never understood why the e-tes costs thousands and you have to add your own airmover. It even makes it look hokey. Why not build it in?

The E-TES costs about the same as a large LGR dehumidifier, not bad when you consider what it can do.

I see the E-TES's ability to use different air movers as a benefit not a liability. I use a 1 hp air mover with the E-TES to lift large areas of carpet or to force air in to a wall cavity. I use lower cfm air movers to raise the temperature of a drying chamber and wet material using as little electricity as possible. Being able to use different air movers makes the E-TES more versatile.

Kevin.....can you explain how lower cfm's translates into "little electricity"

Is because of quicker drying?

Amps x volts x 24 hours / 1000 watts x cost per KW = cost of equipment operation per day.
A 11 amp air mover such as the Turbo Dryer costs $ 3.95 per day to use in my area per day. A 2.5 amp air mover costs about .90 cents a day to use because it uses less electricity.
I should also have mentioned the more static pressure a air mover puts out such as the Turbo Dryer, the more electricity it uses. This can be a factor in the amount of circuits available on a drying job more than the cost of running the equipment per day.

 

[Cameron1]

Ok. I got it. What would the E-TES cost of operation per day be ?

 

[kmdineen]

Ok. I got it. What would the E-TES cost of operation per day be ?

$19.34 per 24 hours at .13 cents per kw hour
http://www.tesdryingsystem.com/e-tes_elec_calc.html
Does not include the air mover

 

[Cameron1]

Holy Cow...........that's good to know.

 

[MicahR]

I'm still waiting for the third party verification....

 

[Eric]

Hi Bill,
To be NEC ® compliant the electrical unit can run at 80% of the breaker size. That means a 30amp breaker can run a maximum of 24amps. A 15amp breaker can run at a maximum of 12amps. The ELE 6400 uses 11.67amps/circuite. NEC ® compliant is minimum for a very basic electric code. You will need 2 circuits in most cases using the ELE 6400 and that will give you about a 50 degree temperature rise. This is all I need unless the temperature in the house is very low. I work in the mountains of Colorado and have seen temps requiring a 3rd circuit, Once. The most important issues when using heat is getting the heat UP. The ELE 6400 does not have high cfm. That is the one reason you can get higher temperatures. You use air movers to distribute the heat in the drying area and a downdraft fan the bring the heat back down to the flooring and back out to the walls The TES uses higher cfm (air mover) and that cools the heated air down. This isn’t rocket science, higher heat will dry faster. I usually dry at 115 –120 degrees using the ELE 6400. All I can say is I have used the eTes and the ELE 6400. The ELE 6400 way outperforms the eTes period. That is real field experience.
Eric
http://www.colortechrestoration.com

Heat Drying Equipment
http://www.driheat.com

Eric
I have a very solid understanding of NEC compliance as well as UL, CSA CUL and ETL. I'd suggest you foucus more on the features of your product as it relates to drying than draw safety comparisons to other manufactureres products since you may find you do meet all the requirements either :wink: Also couldn't you have chosen a slightly diferent name than to play on the Dri-Eaz name?

I must say it doesn't sound like you not do real heat drying. No one has said anything about temperatures. That is the most important factor when heat drying. I have ducted the ELE 6400 into a air mover for a tough wall. Because of the high cfm the air was warm, not hot. The ELE 6400 is for heat drying. The eTes is designed for hard to dry areas, anyway that is what Tes says. Quote from Tes web site, “Almost every water loss has trouble spots that take longer than the expected three days to dry. Trouble spots like double wall sheetrock, PVC wallpaper, plaster walls, hardwood floors, cabinets, sill plates, crawl spaces, attics, etc”.

I do not float carpet I do top down drying. Using heat 95% of my dryouts are done in 2 days or less. Real heat drying will speed up your whole dryout, no just trouble areas. The 2 units don’t even compare, the ELE 6400 is a true heat drying system and the eTes is designed for hard to dry areas. One thing you guys be interested in it the ELE uses 120vac circuits and you can get up to 6400 watts, 21,837.71btus. The eTes 240 is 6200 watts, 21,155.28btus and the eTes 120 is 4000 watts, 13,648.57btus. Btus shown are based on manufactures advertise watts and converted to btus. The ELE 6400 is much more versatile because is requires 120vac, not 240vac like the eTes 240. Many homes I work in don’t even have 240vac and if they do they don’t want me plugging at the stove or dryer for such a little dryout. Just don’t make sense.

You need to do your homework, the ELE 6400 is manufactured by Energedry. I have nothing to do with what the manufacture names their equipment or how they market their equipment. I have no way to get third party verification because I am not the manufacture. Talk to the manufacture. All I know is the ELE 6400 way outperforms the eTes period. That is real field experience, my experience.
Eric
http://www.colortechrestoration.com

 

[Bill Bruders]

Eric
I'm not commenting one way or another about which unit is best. I can say I have a fair amount of experience in the water damage restoration arena and believe I understand the theory of drying and the importance of temperature. My point was quite simple, you were making a lot of comparative statements about your product and the ETES and these comparisons focused on NEC compliance. It seemed to me you were using somewhat of a scare tactic concerning the safety of using ETES. I simply cautioned you about these statements and asked for some documentation nothing more.

I actually find all the talk about the importance of heat in drying quite comical. Mankind has been using heat to dry materials of most every kind dating back to the stone age. The use of heat has been taught in every certification class, workshop etc. focused on water damage restoration since their inception. I'm sure your product like any tool has its place, but lets make sure we keep all of these new ideas in perspective.

 

[Eric]

Eric
I'm not commenting one way or another about which unit is best. I can say I have a fair amount of experience in the water damage restoration arena and believe I understand the theory of drying and the importance of temperature. My point was quite simple, you were making a lot of comparative statements about your product and the ETES and these comparisons focused on NEC compliance. It seemed to me you were using somewhat of a scare tactic concerning the safety of using ETES. I simply cautioned you about these statements and asked for some documentation nothing more.

I actually find all the talk about the importance of heat in drying quite comical. Mankind has been using heat to dry materials of most every kind dating back to the stone age. The use of heat has been taught in every certification class, workshop etc. focused on water damage restoration since their inception. I'm sure your product like any tool has its place, but lets make sure we keep all of these new ideas in perspective.

Hi Bill,
I have been in the business for about 30 years. I have never used scare tactics to compare the 2 different systems. You need to look back at who actually did show concerns about the eTes, it was not me. The eTes is not NEC ® compliant based on their advertised numbers. The ELE 6400 is. If Tes can show proof they are NEC ® compliant I would love to see that. They can’t based on their advertise watts. Tes advertises 4,000 watts at 14.6 watts. You can’t have both. With 2 circuits at 120vac/circuite and get 4,000 watts the actual wattage needed would be 16.67 watts/circuit. If the advertise watts is right 14.6 watts with 2 circuits you would get a total of 3,504 watts. Which one is true? I would love to know which number is right..
Thank you,
Eric

Hi Bill,
I think talking about the 2 systems is really good for the other members of mikysboard. This helps them better compare the 2 systems. Thank you.
Eric

 

[Eric]

Eric
I'm not commenting one way or another about which unit is best. I can say I have a fair amount of experience in the water damage restoration arena and believe I understand the theory of drying and the importance of temperature. My point was quite simple, you were making a lot of comparative statements about your product and the ETES and these comparisons focused on NEC compliance. It seemed to me you were using somewhat of a scare tactic concerning the safety of using ETES. I simply cautioned you about these statements and asked for some documentation nothing more.

I actually find all the talk about the importance of heat in drying quite comical. Mankind has been using heat to dry materials of most every kind dating back to the stone age. The use of heat has been taught in every certification class, workshop etc. focused on water damage restoration since their inception. I'm sure your product like any tool has its place, but lets make sure we keep all of these new ideas in perspective.

Hi Bill,
I have been in the business for about 30 years. I have never used scare tactics to compare the 2 different systems. You need to look back at who actually did show concerns about the eTes, it was not me. The eTes is not NEC ® compliant based on their advertised numbers. The ELE 6400 is. If Tes can show proof they are NEC ® compliant I would love to see that. They can’t based on their advertise watts. Tes advertises 4,000 watts at 14.6 watts. You can’t have both. With 2 circuits at 120vac/circuite and get 4,000 watts the actual wattage needed would be 16.67 watts/circuit. If the advertise watts is right 14.6 watts with 2 circuits you would get a total of 3,504 watts. Which one is true? I would love to know which number is right..
Thank you,
Eric

Hi Bill,
I think talking about the 2 systems is really good for the other members of mikysboard. This helps them better compare the 2 systems. Thank you.
Eric

Hi Bill,
I have 1 question for you. Have you used both the ELE 6400 and the eTes as I have in the field? If you have used both you can give a fair comparison. Using the equipment on a dryout is the best way to compare equipment.
Eric