Hey Duane O

[John Watson]

Duane, as a builder, but more importantly a designer, In your oppinion, What type of field tests can be done at a senerio like Vegas by us, laymen carpet suckers that would matter or make a difference to the members of this board and help someone choose between one unit compared to another??? I am not trying to be a smartass or get you in trouble in any way. I have come to respect the knowledge and intelegence I have found reading your posts. I am asking this for the benifit of the testers of Mikeys question. I know you said you wern't ready with your new machine for this Connections, but are you going yourself? and if so I would wish someone of your talents would also be on the testing team.

 

[Dolly Llama]

hey Watson, the problem is, tests at a venue like Connections or fests can't tell you whether a TM is reliable.

the hotest, biggest, badazz TM ain't worth diddly if it's not reliable.

On "paper" the Chemtex looks like a good TM
Kohler motor, Cat pump, and other quality comonents.
Unfortunatly, the Chemtex has a BAAAADDDD rep


...L.T.A.

 

[hogjowl]

And they can't tell you about distributor support either. The badest TM out there is nothing without proper support.

However, testing results ARE a serious factor in any buying decision ... or the SHOULD be if the tests were available.

I say it's a good thing, but it should be done by cleaners and not competitive suppliers.

 

[John Watson]

Hey Larry thats where this board is supposed to come into play when you ask others about it. We just, Wait a minute, I don't, but many ask over and over the same flippen questions and we keep getting the same mine is better answer. What I would like to see just like the others who asked this first, is an even playing field..

Reliability is a lot of times in the hands of the owner, Yes there are lemons out there, but, I am willing to bet not in the numbers reported.

Hell on one of my units my son said he was maintaining (Which was running good) When we swapped that unit into another van I had Prefered change the fluids and tune up the machine, They called me, said all that drained out of the crankcase was sludge. (In fact ask Joe Dynes, He still has a jar of the stuff to show) Well they flushed the engine out, and now when started had a noticable knock and smoked like hell, Other than that, ran excelent. We ended up getting a lower end rebuild on our 3cyl Kubota. In 4 years and about 3000 Hrs my son changed the oil twice maybe 3 times, He had been changing the filter about 2-3 times a year without draining the crankcase, he somehow figured this would be sufice.

Hey there Farty Marty, I Kthinks you Knailed it, Distributor support, proper service and a reputable manufactor.

But like you, I feel these tests are a good thing,

Oh yeah Larry, I don't think you would have to worry about chemtex, I hve never seen them at connections, just in full page ads in ICS and/or cleanfax

 

[Dolly Llama]

Hey Larry thats where this board is supposed to come into play when you ask others about it.

problem is, most "current" owners of brand X, Y or Z TM rarely share the bad points about their TMs
Maybe a pride thing? I donno

you rarely hear about shredded couplers, smoking belts, burnt/smoking bearings on idler pullies, relay/solinoid troubles, HX diverter isuses, etc.

you hear how much suck and heat they make, but not the PITA issues that plague many TMs


I do agree with Mardee, it should be "cleaners" doing the testing.
Problem is, 4/5 of them don't know sheet from shinola


..L.T.A.

 

[bob vawter]

I know my sheet MR.....

i ain't got no shredded couplers, smoking belts, burnt/smoking bearings on idler pullies, relay/solinoid troubles, HX diverter isuses, etc.

the only thing above i use is belts....an' they do smoke!

 

[Dolly Llama]

the only thing above i use is belts....an' they do smoke!

Bob, you spin your blower at 1600rpm
That's not "smoke" from the belts.
That's cob webs and DUST your stirring up :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


..L.T.A.

 

[bob vawter]

actually..it's 1650...but i'm not one ta quibble!

 

[Duane Oxley]

Duane, as a builder, but more importantly a designer, In your oppinion, What type of field tests can be done at a senerio like Vegas by us, laymen carpet suckers that would matter or make a difference to the members of this board and help someone choose between one unit compared to another???

I just now saw this one.

Give me a few to ponder it...

 

[Duane Oxley]

Personally, I'd look at the output temperatures with a lie detector, hooked up to a specific jet, and use the identical one on each system. There needs to be a pressure gauge at the jet as well. You could use two different jets to represent "normal" and "high" flow rates. (A Vee Jet with 1/4" threads will screw into a femake quick couple and make this easy to change at will.)

Use insulated quick couples...

Something like the above can easily be carried around from one system to another.

Ideally, if you can either install it on the system outlet (which would prove interesting, to see what their system temp gauge reads by comparison), or use the same kind and length of pressure hose on each, you should, for consistency. And if you can't, minimize the hose length as much as possible and report what it is.

If there are systems set up on the floor, inside the convention, I'd look for vacuum obstruction... especially anything that's hidden. And the most likely place to look will be in the connection at the blower.

Measure airflow at the vacuum tank inlet. You'll need an anemometer for accuracy. Note the system RPM's when you do.

Note what the vacuum relief is set at. Note how many RPM's the system drops when the vac relief opens.

Measure CFM at system outlet as well as vacuum tank inlet, for comparison.

A decibel meter would be good as well. Measure noise at 3 feet from the system, 10 feet away and 25 or so away.

 

[John Watson]

Thanks Duane.

Another Idea I had been thinking about that almost fits what you described in your first parograph. If some one had just a QD to hook up to an exhibitor's pressure line, coupled to a lie detector and a pressure guage with another insulated QD that could hook up to just the spray bars from a standard flow and high flow jet system.

This to would be easy to transport and carry in the show.

 

[Duane Oxley]

John:

Unless you use the same jet size for all systems, at the same pressure, measured at the system outlet, there are too many other variables not accounted for, to allow the tests to be accurate or relevant when compared to each other.

 

[Duane Oxley]

I know you said you weren't ready with your new machine for this Connections, but are you going yourself? and if so I would wish someone of your talents would also be on the testing team.

Thanks, John.

I think it would be in bad form, for me to go around and test other manufacturers' stuff. Someone else asked me the same thing, and I thought about it for about 30 seconds. Sounded like a good idea at first, until I realized that, regardless of the fact that I could be "strictly analytical", there's no way it wouldn't generate some animosity. And I don' wanna go there...

No, I won't be going to Connections this go round. Not even to just cruise around and look. Things are picking up here for me now with the Nemesis complete and being sold. The Xcel is being worked through at the moment, and we're moving into our new location in the next week or thereabouts, with all of the loose ends that come with that.

I think my time will be spent much better getting the wrinkles worked out "at home" for now. I've got to set up the new shop, write the owner's manual for the HX systems, design the literature (or, work with the graphics people to do so), shoot the upcoming Nemesis video, do the announcement for the new location, and so much more- all in the next few weeks.

Thanks for thinking of me.

Duane

 

[John Watson]

Again I thank you for your replies. I am asking this to others trying to use "more than one head system of idea collecting" Good luck with all you got going on.