High PH reading from carpet.

klndry

Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2009
Messages
20
I was wondering if someone could provide a bit of advice. I am new to carpet cleaning. I was cleaning a carpet today. I was doing some spotting and after the carpet dried the spotting reappeared. I took a litmus reading and the carpet was indicating a high PH. Is there anything I could have done prior to starting or during the cleaning that would have prevented this reading.

Thanks
 

Mike Draper

Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2008
Messages
4,402
We always rinse the areas extremely well after we treat them. This should do the trick.
 
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
8,180
Location
PA
Name
I'm Rick James
Mike Draper said:
We always rinse the areas extremely well after we treat them. This should do the trick.


What does Big Green Steam Clean use for rinsing? Are you a green company? You the owner?


Was it wicking or resoiling? How quick did the spots come back? I agree with Mike, rinse all you spray down out.
 

sweendogg

Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2008
Messages
3,534
Location
Bloomington, IL 61704
Name
David Sweeney
http://www.karcher.ca/CCE/Floor_Care_We ... 0BR400.htm

Is this what you are using to clean with? Do you have any other means of extraction such as a portable extractor or Truckmount?

If you are using a VLM method (very low moisture), you need to be using products that are compatible with that system.

What are you using to clean with product wise? If you are using a low moisture system, your safest bet is going to be to use an encap product. If you are using a bonnet cleaner or even a carpet detergent with a pH of 10 or above, you have no way to rinse that product out, leaving soil attracting residue as well as shifting the pH as you have stated. Also if you aren't rinsing and your product does not encapsulate, or dry to a polymer crystal to hold soil, there are going to be a lot of wicking issues as well as you physically have not removed all of the soiling material.. all be it soda or fruite juice, oils, ext.


Tell us some more about your system and we'll help you make better use of it!
 

Dolly Llama

Number 5
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
30,629
Location
North East Ohio
Name
Larry Capitoni
klndry said:
I was wondering if someone could provide a bit of advice. I am new to carpet cleaning. I was cleaning a carpet today. I was doing some spotting and after the carpet dried the spotting reappeared. I took a litmus reading and the carpet was indicating a high PH. Is there anything I could have done prior to starting or during the cleaning that would have prevented this reading.

Thanks

"after the carpet dried the spotting reappeared."

the Ph level isn't what caused the wicking
not removing the foreign substance/spill is what cased it

flush/rinse the gunk out as best you can and get dry as fast as you can

..L.T.A.
 

klndry

Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2009
Messages
20
I am using a E1200 extractor. Pressure was set at 400 psi. Rinsed twice and the carpet still felt soapy. It was a couple of spots but it bugged me. So, when I was finished the PH was reading about 7. Now that seems pretty acidic to me. So, I am left wondering why the PH was so high and then the stains reappeared.

No BR300 on carpets. That is just a small floor scrubber I own. I will update my profile.
 

sweendogg

Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2008
Messages
3,534
Location
Bloomington, IL 61704
Name
David Sweeney
Well what did you rinse with... water? Detergent? Acid Rinse?

If the cleaner before you did a shampoo cleaning or maybe the homeowner kirby shampooed or resolve shampooed. These can leave a lot of soap in the carpet and that can be an absolute PIA to remove all of the detergents and soap from previous cleanining. Again what chems did you use? Did you prespray or did you run a detergent through the machine?

Some spills will sink below the surface of the carpet and require a water claw or similar to devise along with flooding of the spot to get all of the stuff out of the carpet. If you can't remove all the soil, it wicks.

How long was the carpet wet afterwards? How long to dry?

7 isn't acidic. that is neutral. 0-14 scale. If you rinsed with fairly softe water, you should be close to 7. In case of the High pH, it sounds like someone tried something like resolve to remove the spot which is very soapy and heavy on residue. This residue is going to have a high pH, and will attract soil very quickly.
 

GeneMiller

Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
3,541
Location
Boca Raton
Name
gene miller
Ph is a reading for water, so once it's dry there is no ph. I agree with the others something didn't get removed and or wicked. Rinse again and if it's sudsy us a little defoamer on the area and then it will rinse out. Dry it as quick as possible.

Gene
 

dealtimeman

Everyday is Saturday.
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
10,878
Location
Fort Worth , Texas
Name
Michael
if you want the best result - rinse the crap out of it with what ever you are rinsing with, then do several dry passes on the spots you speak of and finally put an airmover (preferrably an airpath) about a foot back from the spot. if it is wicking you need to dry the area as fast as you can and dont give it a chance to wick back. also if you want to be sure it wont wick hit it with a bonnet after the dry passes.


before you do all this, are you sure the spot is gone when you are cleaning?
 

klndry

Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2009
Messages
20
Used water to rinse it. I didn't know you could rinse it with anything else. I also thought that carpet was neutral at 3-5 ph.
I did use an airmover. So, the owners are pretty please with drying. Maybe I am being paraniod. They will call if there is any more trouble.

Thanks for all of the advice. It is why I joined the blog.
 

Ron Werner

Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
8,726
Location
Sooke BC, Lower Vancouver Island
Name
Ron Werner
pH goes back to your high school chem class.
1 is very acidic
7 is neutral
14 is very alkaline or base
Each number away from 7 is 10 times stronger than neutral,
ie 8 is 10x, 9 is 100x, 10 is 1000x, 11 is 10,000x, etc


Leaving a carpet at a pH of 3-5 would be fine. Keeps the dyes stable.
Water is "usually" neutral but can be either slightly acidic or alkaline depending on where you live.
 

sweendogg

Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2008
Messages
3,534
Location
Bloomington, IL 61704
Name
David Sweeney
To add to Ron's quick chem lesson. Alot of manufacturers carry didn't rinse products that you can add to your rinse water to "condition" the water. Some presprays and traffic lane cleaners work best when used with its companion rinse product. Alot of residential prepray, rinse combos are going to be an alkaline prespray and either an acid or neutral rinse.

For example: Prochem Ultrapac and All fiber Acid Rinse. Judson O2 prespray and neutral O2 rinse.

When you get into heavily soiled areas, were the prespray alone may not remove all of the soil, then you can add a rinse detergent. This often happens in restaurants and heavy greasey areas to help emulsify the oils.

pH becomes important for the carpet for a couple of reasons: First most soils, not all, but most are often acidic in nature. So we use alkalinity in the form of our presprays and detergents to seperate and suspend the oily molecules and crud away from the carpet fibers to be rinsed away. Alot of Nylon carpets, almost all wool carpets and some polyester carpets go through a dye bath to get their color. This dye is acid based and fills in microscopic holes in the fiber often called dye sites. In most of your cleaning of synthetic carpets, you will very rarely find a carpet that will beed color but wools and some nylons when they are cleaned repeatedly (or sometimes once in wools case) with high alkalinity, you can open up the dyes sites and the fibers will release color.

depending on the chemical make up of the dye used, some dyes will change colors when they subjected to the wrong pH.. usually high alkalinity. This is why alot of peopl will use rinse agents to keep the pH of the rinse water towards the neutral to acid side. Especielly on Wool. Also natural fibers that are prone to browning, when treated with acid rinse will often prevent the browning. Same with carpets with Jute/woven backings. However, there are alot of detergents that can be used in your cleaning water that will not cause a huge shift in pH and will not leave a residue behind.

Popular ones include: Prochem Dry slurry, Chemspec formula 90, Masterblend Soapfree, or Masterblend RAGE for wool. And the O2 rinse has emulsifiers and surfactants that help clean as well. As was stated above, pH alone does not usually contribute to resoil or wicking. But using high pH products that have heavy residue if not rinsed all the way out can leave a pH shift when tested. To clarify: Wicking is when the soil/foreign matter is not completely removed from carpet and follows the moisture up the fibers as the carpet drys to reappear. Resoil is when a residue has been left behind to attract soil quicker thus making the carpet look dirtier faster.

Feel free to ask as many questions as need. Knowledge is a valuable asset.

And feel free to search the site for other good info.
 

Ron Werner

Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
8,726
Location
Sooke BC, Lower Vancouver Island
Name
Ron Werner
I was thinking to that it has become more an incomplete sentence when someone says 'a high pH reading will cause resoiling'.

They need to alter the sentence moreso: A high pH reading is a "indication" that there may be a residue on the carpet which will attract more soil
 

TimP

Member
Joined
May 19, 2007
Messages
4,055
I think this guy needs to go to a formal cleaning class. He sounds real dangerous to me. I don't get people that go out and clean carpet and just because they buy a cleaning machine they think they are an expert.
 

Ron Werner

Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
8,726
Location
Sooke BC, Lower Vancouver Island
Name
Ron Werner
I pretty much started that way. 2 weeks witha guy on a truck with TM and porty, then I was out on my own. Took my first uph tech crse a couple months later and didn't take a carpet cleaning tech course till after almost 4 yrs. I just kept asking question after question
What about this...
what about this...
what about this...
what about this...
what about this...
 

TimP

Member
Joined
May 19, 2007
Messages
4,055
I took the class first researched the best I could online. Kept learning all I could on the boards. A basic foundation is a must in my opinion. Now I think I know more than most cleaners out there. Experience helps and keeping up to date is a very good idea.
 

Ron Werner

Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
8,726
Location
Sooke BC, Lower Vancouver Island
Name
Ron Werner
The Boards are a major advantage to anyone starting up today. They weren't around when I started. Only got my first computer in 97, the net was just starting to get optimized.
There is a ton of info in the archives of the boards. Just do a search and read for days.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom