How much do your charge to clean VCT????

[floorguy]

ok with out looking at it or scraping it etc.

IT IS STAINED CONCRETE...not waxed VCT....

do with those 2 being said, i doubt it has any finish on it...the mess it would be in a greasy inviroment would be nasty...My guess is it has a poly on it, which then you need an auto scrubber for it to just go through and keep it scrubbed up and cleaned...(better then a mop of course)

It could of course just be polished to a high gloss and then have a penetrating sealer..

you will need to figure out which color pad to use, so you dont scratch the hell out of it..and which degreaser will work, with out the chance of screwing up the floor, but can still cut the crap on it...

lots of things to consider..but i am not looking at it either...

sub it out, have someone that does floors look at it, get a bid and see if you can make money...most that i do that way, they give/get me access and i go do it and bill them...then they make what ever, i dont ever ask.

 

[Carpet Cleaning Fool]

Thanks Floorguy! I think i will take your advice and sub it out for starters.

 

[TimP]

Since the economy has been so slow I've been thinking about adding VCT stripping and waxing to my business. I'd rather go to a class to learn what the hell I'm doing before I jump in. I think JonDon has a class.....has anyone attended it, and is it worth it? I get so many calls a year for doing vct floors that it may be worth it to get in. I think I could charge what I wanted to do it right because nobody does it right in this area. Plus I wouldn't be looking at doing it for my main source of income so if I didn't get to do the jobs I wouldn't care. But I wouldn't mind some additional income from it.

 

[sweendogg]

I'd say if you are willing to put in the time to do the training.. then why not? When you get a customer, you want to keep that customer and by offering her as many 'quality' services as possible, you 1)save them the frustration of dealing with several service providers. 2) increase your presence in the home or business, and you protect them from in house marketing by your competitor if they end up providing a service that you can not offer.

 

[Larry B]

Since the economy has been so slow I've been thinking about adding VCT stripping and waxing to my business. I'd rather go to a class to learn what the hell I'm doing before I jump in. I think JonDon has a class.....has anyone attended it, and is it worth it? I get so many calls a year for doing vct floors that it may be worth it to get in. I think I could charge what I wanted to do it right because nobody does it right in this area. Plus I wouldn't be looking at doing it for my main source of income so if I didn't get to do the jobs I wouldn't care. But I wouldn't mind some additional income from it.

If you dont know what your doing then how can you say they dont di it right?

 

[floorguy]

for what you would pay for a class....pay for my flight..and a place to stay, i dont even care if its at your house....have a few jobs lined up and the equipment, and ill come train you everything you need to know for those jobs...(mind you things some time change job to job...thats why its so fun)

I dont need any extra money...hell itd be like a mini vacation, chance to see other parts of the country...just so long as i have enough notice so i can schedule around it...


Just know the amount of money you should expect to spend on equipment...this also varies as to what and how much you want to do, how big etc...

Do you have a ramp for the van???

Do you have room in your van for the new/extra equipment??

How much per hr do you plan on making??? with a tighter economy that means people arent just going to be throwing out $.50 or more on floors, i dont care what you say...

If you dont have the right equipment, you may as well focus on carpets because the time spent fartin around with cheap/not the right equipment for the job, will push out your time to do it...It would be kinda like doing a commercial job with a stair tool :shock: :shock: :shock: .

Dont think you can just "jump" into it...its taken 10 yrs to aquire the equipment i have to do the jobs i do...

ill post some job examples and costs etc. then you can decide

 

[TimP]

Since the economy has been so slow I've been thinking about adding VCT stripping and waxing to my business. I'd rather go to a class to learn what the hell I'm doing before I jump in. I think JonDon has a class.....has anyone attended it, and is it worth it? I get so many calls a year for doing vct floors that it may be worth it to get in. I think I could charge what I wanted to do it right because nobody does it right in this area. Plus I wouldn't be looking at doing it for my main source of income so if I didn't get to do the jobs I wouldn't care. But I wouldn't mind some additional income from it.

If you dont know what your doing then how can you say they dont di it right?

For 1 there is only one guy doing it. I subed out a job to him. He uses just a mop and a bucket.....that's it. I don't believe he even owns a buffer of any kind. He only learned from working under someone years ago....knows just enough to hack it out and get paid. His floors never shine.....And I think he only puts on 1-2 coats, and I've had plenty of people wanting to have someone else do work after him because they weren't happy at all. End of story.

 

[Carpet Cleaning Fool]

the equipment for VCT is a heck of a lot less expensive then even the cheapest introductory TM.

With the regular clean and buff and the occational strip and wax VCT maintenance seems much more consistant than the occational residential rug cleaning. Even commercial rug cleaning seems less consistant than floor maintenance.

Besides, in this economy diversification might be key to success.

 

[TimP]

Besides, in this economy diversification might be key to success.

That's what I'm thinking right now.

 

[Larry B]

George

Like any service business getting in the door is the problem. You will also get floor accounts that want them serviced once a month and think they should look like new with never getting cleaned all month.

 

[Carpet Cleaning Fool]

George

Like any service business getting in the door is the problem. You will also get floor accounts that want them serviced once a month and think they should look like new with never getting cleaned all month.

"Roger that"

Thanks Larry!

 

[floorguy]

the equipment for VCT is a heck of a lot less expensive then even the cheapest introductory TM.

With the regular clean and buff and the occational strip and wax VCT maintenance seems much more consistant than the occational residential rug cleaning. Even commercial rug cleaning seems less consistant than floor maintenance.

Besides, in this economy diversification might be key to success.

Ummmm ok. :roll: individualy yes...all together...ehhhhh....there are a lot of factors involved to.

lets go through a list of what i have and what they run....

26" auto scrubber....2 1 cost $5100 the other $5700...they can get as high as $10,000
Propane strip machine dont leave home with out it...i dont care if its a 500 sqft place it gets used...$6000

so right there is almost $17000, then your various mop buckets and mop heads/handles, scrappers, doodle bug, poles, etc....

oh dont forget another van, because you aint gonna fit anything in yours if there is a TM in there, unless of course its a box truck...Need a ramp to get them heavy bastards out...yes even if you only have a 17" autoscrubber..

ok ok so you say you dont "need" all this, and your right you dont. But it makes life about 1000% easier...

If you are only doing doctor type offices with broken up areas all over, then you can get away with a shop vac and 175...shoot thats what i use on those jobs...(and I hate those small broken up bastards) But if you plan on doing anything of size, and I mean anything over say 1000 sqft, or convience type stores(they are a little smaller but wouldnt want a wet vac for them) you better get a autoscrubber..

Cimex, yes it works slick as hell, ooops still need your ramp...maybe you already have one for it....does it have a weight rating??? or is it cheap??? alot of this equipment is heavy...I have toted one of my smaller 26" up stairs before....took the batteries out and then 4 of us took it up the stairs (holy shit that was horrible) but I wanted the easy and use of it up there...


Much like we (carpet cleaners here) hate when hacks, just think they can load up the pick-up with a porty and pump up and call it good....

I am telling you the same thing...you can just get a few mop buckets, a 175 and a wet vac, and go to town....but do you want to look like a hack???

people want it done and they want it fast..(most times), they dont want to watch you do a 10x10 area, then move to the next, ever 30-60 mins....one of THE biggest questions i get asked.."HOW LONG IS IT GOING TO TAKE???"

you want to do it...go ahead, i will help as much as i can...and that includes pointing things out you may not have thought of...

personaly...during this time...i wouldnt want to invest money into something.." i think i can make work"


ohhhh and then we can get into the various experiences as to why my floor did this, or how come it didnt do that...

Its not just squeeze the trigger and go you know....

 

[Carpet Cleaning Fool]

Thanks Doug!

I priced auto scrubbers locally and they aren’t cheap. They got em starting about $3500 up to $6000. He didn’t have any propane strippers for sale. He has electric. Since the floors are inside a restaurant I thought electric might be the way to go because of the exhaust from the propane. - Is propane exhaust a concern in restaurant environments? The floors range in size from about 500 s/f to 1800 s/f.

If I have to purchase a propane strip machine it may be a deal buster because there is no way I can afford to spend 10k on equipment to service 1 large account. But, if I can get into the business for under 5k I might go for it.

The transportation thing isn’t an issue because I already have an 8x10 enclosed cargo trailer with built in drop ramp.

Also, I called a meeting with the purchasing manager for questions and answers. What should I be asking? My main questions are; what’s their expectations, how much is their budget, do I get a key and alarm code to all 7 stores, will I be paid on time, the frequency of cleaning at each location, how often do they want it stripped /waxed?

Can you help me with some talking points for the meeting? I’ll feel like a dumb ass if I call a meeting and then have nothing to say or ask. - At each location the finish and stain is completely worn down to the bare cement in some high traffic zones. No luster whatsoever. What's up with that? I want the traffic zones to sparkle like a diamond.

Can you help me with some talking points for Tuesday’s meeting?

I’m flying by the seat of my pants on this one so any advice is greatly appreciated. Also, I got a sub-contractor working on a bid for me now.

Thank you,

George

 

[TimP]

You can run propane indoors....the exhaust isn't bad for you like gasoline is. It just burns up the oxygen and will make a good bit of co2 so if it's a smaller place you'll probably want to have some air flowing in and out of the building just so you don't suffocate. But propane forklifts and these scrubbers are used indoors all the time and are made for that purpose.

 

[AshleyMckendree]

Can I apply Floor finish with my Battery sprayer?

I'm thinking if I did, i would have to run water/iso alcohol throught it like I do after applying protector.

 

[floorguy]

you dont HAVE to buy propane, i just like it alot.....

here is your chance to purchase a cimex. it hits the middle road between a 175 and a propane, i had a hospital where of course i couldnt use propane inside, sooo we busted out the cimex...works great...plus now you have something better for encapping, if you do that...

i had a 7x14 trailer, so you should be fine....good deal there

have they seriously had floor finish on the concrete, or are they just looking for a shine??? you may want to go do a test area... Use stripper and see what it does, use a doodle bug and a wet vac, clean it up real good and put more finish down....maybe down in front where they get traffic???

Just now that finish on concrete does NOT last as long as on VCT.....think of this analogy....Indians would crush corn down to meal...how ??? rock underneath (concrete here) corn in the middle (finish) and then a rock or other type of smashing/rubbing tool (peoples feet, sand, grit and other stuff) it gets mashed and broke up, some times it flakes because of bad adhersion..

Hence is why you do a little test area...it might be you need to wax it every 2 weeks, and buff is once a week....thats the part that is always hard to figure out...just how much service does it need??? sooooo many factors .....





You can use the sprayer, dont forget a micro fiber or something of the like to spread it out....

And yes RINSE RINSE RINSE when done

 

[Carpet Cleaning Fool]

Could a Cimex also be used to buff it out to a wicked shine?

 

[TimP]

I own a cimex.....what else would someone starting out want or need for it. I bought a shop vac a while back to refinish a wood floor....so I can get one of those. I can carry all that in my van no problem if I take a few things out. I wouldn't want to fork out thousands for more equipment until I see what kind of volume I'd be doing to make it worth it for me.

 

[Larry B]

If you dont want to spend the money on a scrubber get a typhoon vac or something like that. You can get them cheap on ebay. They have a large squeegee that sets on the floor and you just push the vacuum around. Much faster than a shop vac and little wand head.


http://cgi.ebay.com/Advance-Sprite-AS-W ... 7C294%3A50

 

[Carpet Cleaning Fool]

Is that a "Yes" on the Cimex being able to lay day the wicked shine?

 

[Fon Johnson]

Wow, so much to cover..

I have not been doing this long and have a lot to learn, so I may be off but..

If you seriously think that a propane stripper is not faster than a 175 or auto scrubber, you are smokin' weed, and it must be bad stuff. Go watch a crew strip a gocery store in 4 or 5 hours and report back to me. This business is all about having the right tools. You can hand wax a car, or you can use a high speed rotary. One way is much faster, and does a better job. Sure you can burn the paint off, but it comes down to being a pro and knowing what you are doing.

There is no need to put on 50 coats of finish to get shine. We normally put down 3 coats which makes our customers happy. WIth higher solids finishes, you don't need as many coats. That whole "ya gotta get 100% coverage on the floor" is BS, pure and simple. The percentage of solids is the amount of solids versus the carrier in floor finish. 100% coverage.. like if you just put on two coats there will be spots on the floor with no finish on them.. :shock: Salesmen used to tell you to put 5 or 6 coats of their 18% solids finish on the floor to "get 100% coverage". The reason they did that was because of two reasons; you usually need more coats of finish to build it up as much, and they love to sell you twice as much finish. Depending on the quality of the polymer and molecule size, a 36% solids finish would equal 2 coats of the cheaper 18% solids stuff. This is why many people don't have to use 5 or 6 coats. Polymer quality plays a part here too. Not all polymers are created equal.

What equipment you need/want will depend entirely on what you desire to do. Do you want to strip and then maintain grocery stores and other big box retail? If you do, you will HAVE to have propane equipment (stripping and buffing) to be competitive. Without it, you will not be able to compete with the crew who can strip 20,000 or 30,000 sqaure feet in one night and apply 3 coats of finish. You will want propane strippers, large auto scrubbers, and battery vacs like or battery operated typhoon (it will suck up a 3 foot wide path of stripper slury as fast as you can walk. You will also need an auto scrubber and propane burnisher to maintain these accounts. If you just want to do small (2,000 sq ft and less) jobs, you just need a 175, a good vac, and all the accesories. A good brush won't clog up, won't throw crap on the walls as bad, and will outlast 100 cases of pads. If yo want to maintain these, you will want a high speed electric burnisher. You can use propane, but it is not necessary. It is easy to make $100 - $150 per hour buffing if you do it right, and that is with an electric machine. A auto scrubber can be used on some of these smaller accounts, but is not necessary. If there is ample room to use them, they can sure save you some time.

What you need will depend on what you want to do. The competition an be fierce on the big box stuff. The national brokers have muddied the water to the point where you cannot USUALLY make a good profit. I prefer to go after the little job nobody wants to fool with. I charge my min. charge, and mae $150 per hour for the time there. I like to fly under the radar..

I'm sorry I'm not as experienced as you guys, but I'm trying to get there..

If I can help anyone, PM me, or mosey on over the the hard surface room. One of the moderators there is a jerk, but just overlook him..

 

[TimP]

I'm interested in smaller jobs myself. But I want to clear at least 60-70 an hour doing it after expenses. I would rather get my feet wet before I do big stores, and I'm not quite sure I want to hire work crews to do them. Anyways I'd rather start small and see if it's worth it to get big.

So I need the cimex (have one already), a high speed rotary (probably dual speed), and a shopvac or an autoscrubber. Of course some mops...... And some training?? What else.

 

[Larry B]

Tim stay away from large stores. Small places pay very well and big ones are a cut throat business.

 

[ron markam]

If you are thinking about vct read and re-read Fons post.Speed and QUALITY on a strip and refinish is the key.The real money is in the maintenance.We make good coin on the burnishing ,that is the ONLY reason I fool with vct work.I have guys that are awesome at it but personally I hate it.But in this economy if you can get it get it.It is not always only about the company owner.Sometimes I take jobs to keep my guys busy provided I can make a profit. Peace!!!

 

[cory kenyon]

Doug,
You never offered to teach me.
Thanks alot!

 

[floorguy]

ohhh bull shit cory i offered and you know it... hell i even helped you on some jobs to....but nooooo you had to have that einstein bagle guy show you how to do it... :shock: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Like i said thos can be good jobs for some, but not for me..

any who....

NO a cimex will NOT pop the shine...you need the speed and weight of a burnisher...propane prefered but you can do it with a GOOD electric.....Propane will take 1/2 if not a 1/4 of the time vs electric

if you dont want/want to pay for the autoscrubber, then get the typhoon type vac...then you need to flood rinse the floor rescrub it(helps break down the rest of the boogers and rinses it) and suck it up again....(this is where the auto comes in handy it does that part)

Here is an example:

I use to do Auto Zone floors (i think we all know how big they are) it use to take me and 4 guys 2 days to strip the sales floor and behind the counter...this was with the 175 and a small auto...still had to flood rinse the floors.. This was also like 9 yrs ago...borrowed a propane machine, i cut 1 day off that....1 day both floors..with barly getting the finish down before open.

now 9 yrs later, with my ever changing system...i did a store, front and back, with 2 people and had the floor waxed and out of there in about 6 hrs...

do you see the change??? and how equipment + experience = faster easier times

Bare bones equip.....

scrubber IE Cimex, 175 etc

A wet vac of some sort

I like 3-4 buckets.....1 for stripper slop, 1 for edge mopping (its dirtier on the edges you know) 1 for final rinse just before applying finish...4th bucket is for rotation if needed and water is hard to get to....

ungr 4" scrapper on a pole

Window squeege...tried the neoprene ones....they SUCK, cant detail as easy with them either

doodle bug with a good pad...

Pads or brushes for machine....brushes cost more up front but save oodles of money down the road.

That would get you started...

 

[Carpet Cleaning Fool]

Hey,

What do you think of this Powrflite 21" propane burnisher and 16" electric auto scrubber.

Job size's will be under 1800 s/f with tight bathrooms and behind counter area's

These retail for about $2500 each which is within budget. Will these do the job fast enough? Or is 16" electric too small for 1800 sf?

 

[floorguy]

naw those little 16/17" ones are perfect, and you can grow with them....that was what i had, a 17" minuteman, and it last years, till it was time for a little bigger, then i got the 26".....

hummm lemme ask my dad how much he wants for his...if he wants to sell it, he only has 1 job he even uses it on...

looks like this..but has red

http://www.cleaningequipmentdirect.com/mm170.html


also look at www.aztecproducts.com they have great buffers

 

[Carpet Cleaning Fool]

Thanks for all the help Doug!

I should have a green or red flag by the 1st of the year. I'll keep you posted.