Heathrow
Member
John/Harry - can you explain exactly what a grafting procedure entails? I have been trying but not having a great deal of success getting a tidy donor piece to fit. Very interested in getting this right :?
How to Graft?
- Thread starter Heathrow
- Start date
Jack May
That Kiwi
Hey Heath,
great to see another Kiwi here.
Here is a thread that shows and explains a lot of doing a Graft by yours truely
http://www.mikeysboard.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15971
John
great to see another Kiwi here.
Here is a thread that shows and explains a lot of doing a Graft by yours truely
http://www.mikeysboard.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15971
John
Heathrow
Member
OK John - I follow most of that. Can you tell me: in those pics, the donor piece was obviously taken from wherever as a whole piece including the jute backing. If I'm removing a donor from say a wardrobe for a graft, do I just cut the whole thing out including backing, remove the jute backing, and reattach the jute to the piece cut from the original hole before placing back into the wardrobe? Also, what do you use to cut the primary from the secondary backing in the problem area - a scalpel? I'm having trouble getting a clean hole with the secondary backing (jute) still in place.
Does that make sense :shock: :?
ps - GO THE AB's
Does that make sense :shock: :?
ps - GO THE AB's
Harry Myers
Member
Let me explain my opinion on grafting as to an actual insert. By grafting what this does is relief the stabilization of the material. This is when If i have a pattern that is distorted. Easy manipulation. If it is a simple process for me insert all the way. Leave all the stability in tact.
Harry Myers
Member
John don't ever feel embarrassed. Let me say this the best in the world have messed up and yet paid for jobs. No - one is perfect.
Heathrow
Member
Thanks Harry, that was actually another question I had (why do a graft instead of an insert?). Everything points towards a CoolGlide purchase :roll:
Harry Myers
Member
Look I seen Steve here a minute ago. Some people prefer grafting . I don't. Maybe Steve can have more input to this particular subject. Always keep in mind. Do what you are comfortable with.
Heath,
I will try to post some more later, just a little tight on time now and just got back in from travel but here is one point: Try to remove the backing from as large of a piece as possible when you are setting up to do a graft, here is an example of removing the secondary backing
Then, when you cut out your donor piece you will not have to try to remove the backing on a small piece.
Hope this helps, sorry to be so brief right now.
SA
I will try to post some more later, just a little tight on time now and just got back in from travel but here is one point: Try to remove the backing from as large of a piece as possible when you are setting up to do a graft, here is an example of removing the secondary backing
Then, when you cut out your donor piece you will not have to try to remove the backing on a small piece.
Hope this helps, sorry to be so brief right now.
SA
harryhides
Member
Question for anyone.
I have found that on some carpet constructions and generally old ones that it is very difficult to remove the secondary without pulling some yarns.
I have tried warming up the backing with a steam iron to ease the removal with limited results.
Any other ideas out there would be appreciated.
I have found that on some carpet constructions and generally old ones that it is very difficult to remove the secondary without pulling some yarns.
I have tried warming up the backing with a steam iron to ease the removal with limited results.
Any other ideas out there would be appreciated.
John Watson
Member
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2006
- Messages
- 2,885
Use a bigger piece for the donor if possible like Steve is showing in the photo. Sometimes you still have to work it till you have a corner or edge that is big enough to yank. Otherwise yes it is more difficult to remove it from the smaller piece.
Jack May
That Kiwi
Grafts are something that I'm still getting my head around and learning the ins and outs of.
I have grafted small repairs for a number of years now but no more than 1-2 rows wide and only say up to a couple of inches long.
Taking the concept to bigger stuff is what's new to me, and dealing with other things like what tony is asking about, cleanly removing secondary backing, particularly jute without pulling tufts out.
Also getting them to sit low enough is also a problem for me. Trying to remove enough of the latex off both surfaces so it doesn't sit high on the carpet is a problem I face.
I may yet return to complete inserts for larger repairs, but felt I needed to give it my best shot while learning something different.
If Steve ever makes the move to internet based training I'll be one of his first students to learn more skills at the hand of a master.
I don't even know if this type of thing would work with internet based training or not.
Don't give up Heath, just keep trying and playing around with different stuff to get a feel for what will and won't work.
John
I have grafted small repairs for a number of years now but no more than 1-2 rows wide and only say up to a couple of inches long.
Taking the concept to bigger stuff is what's new to me, and dealing with other things like what tony is asking about, cleanly removing secondary backing, particularly jute without pulling tufts out.
Also getting them to sit low enough is also a problem for me. Trying to remove enough of the latex off both surfaces so it doesn't sit high on the carpet is a problem I face.
I may yet return to complete inserts for larger repairs, but felt I needed to give it my best shot while learning something different.
If Steve ever makes the move to internet based training I'll be one of his first students to learn more skills at the hand of a master.
I don't even know if this type of thing would work with internet based training or not.
Don't give up Heath, just keep trying and playing around with different stuff to get a feel for what will and won't work.
John
Grafting is not really that difficult but it does have certain little things that must be attended to or it is very easy to have the wrong pile height or have a slight overlapping. It only take 1/64th of an inch for the eye to pick up a difference in pile height. We must also remember, we are taking something Broken and we are trying to make it useful again. Many times we are much harder on ourselves than a consumer would ever be, which is the way it should be or we would accept poor work readily.
I personally like pile grafting, especially on berber because it works well and the foundation stays in place. The example of the top of the stairwell without a nosing is a prime example, that would have been a difficult place to put a bonded insert with the bend that was needed. A one or two or three row replacement just seems to work well with a graft rather than inserting a bonded insert. These are just my opinions and I always tell those I work with to do what works for them but to at least learn different forms of repairs and when to use them. For example, I will show at least 5 different forms of repair for an iron burn alone, then I tell them to use what they are comfortable with.
I just worked with a group this week that were all learning to graft berber and many did it very well in a short period of time. Usually with just a little adjustment they get to see how to make it look like it never happened. Sometimes when you are putting a fresh untracked piece in a traffic area, it will show a little more until it receives a little traffic, it is just the nature of our work.
Here is a grafting piece that just did not have the traffic on it and it stood up a little higher, it is all part of what happens at times, yet the client was thrilled with the work performed in their home, this was just one of about 15 grafts we did in this home.
John you are way too kind to call me that good, I would love to share with you and some of what I have shared with you I hope has helped a little. Your skills are very obvious in the work you share with us.
As for pile grafting or bonded inserts, there are no rules in repairs so as long as we make it better and it works, that is great. We will try to give some more details on more grafting as we go along.
SA
I personally like pile grafting, especially on berber because it works well and the foundation stays in place. The example of the top of the stairwell without a nosing is a prime example, that would have been a difficult place to put a bonded insert with the bend that was needed. A one or two or three row replacement just seems to work well with a graft rather than inserting a bonded insert. These are just my opinions and I always tell those I work with to do what works for them but to at least learn different forms of repairs and when to use them. For example, I will show at least 5 different forms of repair for an iron burn alone, then I tell them to use what they are comfortable with.
I just worked with a group this week that were all learning to graft berber and many did it very well in a short period of time. Usually with just a little adjustment they get to see how to make it look like it never happened. Sometimes when you are putting a fresh untracked piece in a traffic area, it will show a little more until it receives a little traffic, it is just the nature of our work.
Here is a grafting piece that just did not have the traffic on it and it stood up a little higher, it is all part of what happens at times, yet the client was thrilled with the work performed in their home, this was just one of about 15 grafts we did in this home.
John you are way too kind to call me that good, I would love to share with you and some of what I have shared with you I hope has helped a little. Your skills are very obvious in the work you share with us.
As for pile grafting or bonded inserts, there are no rules in repairs so as long as we make it better and it works, that is great. We will try to give some more details on more grafting as we go along.
SA
Jack May
That Kiwi
Graft from today. 2 week old install. Client damage so not a warranty. Didn't want to pay the rate for me to sit there re tufting. For retufting, I'd guess around $300 but I chose to graft at $135 for 25 minutes work.
John
John
Heathrow
Member
So John, how did you cut the problem piece out without damaging or cutting through the jute? Did you use a scalpel or something? This is the bit I'm having trouble getting right but can't find any info on exactly how it's removed off the backing successfully. Nice repair - customer must have been rapt.
Jack May
That Kiwi
I use a cushion cutter.
This has 2 adjustable blades depending on which side of the row you are wanting to cut.
Adjust the blade down to half depth, run your awl or whatever through the row a few times to help define it and open it up then run the cushion cutter through. Run back the same way. This cuts the primary backing only.
Once you have that done, I then like to pull the threads in the middle and let them pull out 1 loop at a time and when I have it all neat across the number of rows I'm doing, then I use a new blade in my stanely and carefully trim out the ends, including cutting through the yarn that is now between the two backings.
Trim up the other end the same, and that will give you a really neat cut out.
Probably doesn't come across that well in written text sorry.
Are you going to the AKL EXPO?
I haven't made up my mind yet, significant cost for little benefit I gather, but if I do, I don't mind an hour or so training if you had the time.
John
This has 2 adjustable blades depending on which side of the row you are wanting to cut.
Adjust the blade down to half depth, run your awl or whatever through the row a few times to help define it and open it up then run the cushion cutter through. Run back the same way. This cuts the primary backing only.
Once you have that done, I then like to pull the threads in the middle and let them pull out 1 loop at a time and when I have it all neat across the number of rows I'm doing, then I use a new blade in my stanely and carefully trim out the ends, including cutting through the yarn that is now between the two backings.
Trim up the other end the same, and that will give you a really neat cut out.
Probably doesn't come across that well in written text sorry.
Are you going to the AKL EXPO?
I haven't made up my mind yet, significant cost for little benefit I gather, but if I do, I don't mind an hour or so training if you had the time.
John
Heathrow
Member
Thanks John - that's a good description and I can follow that no problem at all. I need to invest in some tools soon. The koolglide here is now $795+ so that will be the biggest investment. There are lots of repair jobs passing me by and I see it as a great upsell opportunity.
Re the AKL Expo (conference?) I won't be attending but you can be sure I'll be first in line for some instruction when the time is right
I'll call you next week 'bout a couple of other things.
Cheers
Re the AKL Expo (conference?) I won't be attending but you can be sure I'll be first in line for some instruction when the time is right
I'll call you next week 'bout a couple of other things.
Cheers
ultraclean
Member
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2006
- Messages
- 44
you'll be sorry you said that out loud John
