How would order these in regards to popularity..

[Mikey P]

... and what am I missing


I'm trying to keep it somewhat simple and keep fiber type out of it


Hand woven/knotted (Persian/ Oriental)
Tufted- both machine and handmade
Synthetic machine woven
Animal skins
Braided
Hooked
Flat Weaves

 

[Tom Forsythe]

I am not sure what you mean by "synthetic". I would just say machine woven which capture the olefin and wool (Karastan) in the category. Otherwise, I think you have it covered.

When I taught area rug cleaning 20 years ago, I taught cleaning categories like flatweaves, Chinese rugs, tribal rugs, Persian design rugs and synthetic fiber rugs.

 

[Mikey P]

I am not sure what you mean by "synthetic". I would just say machine woven which capture the olefin and wool (Karastan) in the category. Otherwise, I think you have it covered.

When I taught area rug cleaning 20 years ago, I taught cleaning categories like flatweaves, Chinese rugs, tribal rugs, Persian design rugs and synthetic fiber rugs.

I think olefin/poly pile rugs are the most common these days and worth of their own category

 

[Tom Forsythe]

I missed your question in the heading. I thought you asked if you had all of the categories covered. If you want list of quantities in the marketplace,
1. Machine woven (mostly synthetic)
2. Tufted
3. Hand woven (a lot of old rugs in this category that do not wear out)
4. Flatweaves
5. Braided
6. Hook
7. Animal skins

 

[Nomad74]

If you keep on with all this rug stuff, Mrs. Wagner will return to the board.

Edit, Also I think it depands on where in the country you are. Here in lineral california you are far less likely to see animal skin rugs. Yes, they are out there, but not in the numbers you'll see in Texas and Oklahoma.

 

[Nomad74]

Here is a good question, (and I think I know the answer). How do you know if a tufted is hand woven or machine if the backing is covered by a latex coated canvas? Makes it hard to examine the weft and warp.

 

[Cleanworks]

Here is a good question, (and I think I know the answer). How do you know if a tufted is hand woven or machine if the backing is covered by a latex coated canvas? Makes it hard to examine the weft and warp.

A tufted rug is never woven. It is tufted. If you don't know how to clean it, it's better that's it's weft alone.

 

[Mikey P]

A tufted rug is never woven. It is tufted. If you don't know how to clean it, it's better that's it's weft alone.

Designer tufteds can be hand "made", ala V'Soske

 

[Nomad74]

A tufted rug is never woven. It is tufted. If you don't know how to clean it, it's better that's it's weft alone.

but how do you know if it was machine made. I don't think it really matters for cleaning.

 

[The Great Oz]

Machine tufted must be separate from hand-tufted. completely different animals.

A tufted rug is never woven. It is tufted.

Hand loomed rugs can emulate everything from hand knotted to hand tufted to luxury machine tufted. They're all weak compared to what they copy. Hand loomed rugs are the scourge of the industry and most don't how to tell the difference. A lot of the canvas backed rugs that look tufted are hand woven.

 

[Nomad74]

Damn, this thread got exciting!

 

[Mikey P]

Machine tufted must be separate from hand-tufted. completely different animals.


Hand loomed rugs can emulate everything from hand knotted to hand tufted to luxury machine tufted. They're all weak compared to what they copy. Hand loomed rugs are the scourge of the industry and most don't how to tell the difference. A lot of the canvas backed rugs that look tufted are hand woven.

Pics?

 

[The Great Oz]

Designer tufteds can be hand "made", ala V'Soske

The difference between commodity tufteds that you buy in a store and one-off designer tufteds is a matter of quality and cost. They're both still hand tufted, but slightly different animals so would deserve some background as to the difference.

 

[The Great Oz]

Pics?

This is the most basic way to tell if a canvas backed rug is loomed or tufted. Grin the rug and see if the nap breaks open in even rows. (Left side) You'll see the weaving construction at the base of the fiber. (Right side) Hand tufted rugs won't break in even lines.

The reason these are worse than tufteds is that high rows in the weaving may not be encapsulated with latex and will fall out in use, with vacuuming, and especially in cleaning.

 

[The Great Oz]

Hand woven/knotted (Persian/ Oriental)
Tufted- both machine and handmade
Synthetic machine woven
Animal skins
Braided
Hooked
Flat Weaves

By what most will see when cleaning rugs, and in order of what they'll see most:
#1 - machine tufted
#2 - machine woven synthetic
#3 - hand tufted, commodity grade
#4 - flatweaves, including braided rugs
#5 - hand knotted rugs

Hooked rugs have been almost eliminated by tufting, although they have their own issues, and skins are rare enough to not bother teaching a beginner about.

 

[Tom Forsythe]

By what most will see when cleaning rugs, and in order of what they'll see most:
#1 - machine tufted
#2 - machine woven synthetic
#3 - hand tufted, commodity grade
#4 - flatweaves, including braided rugs
#5 - hand knotted rugs

Bryan, you are obviously in the thick of the rug cleaning industry today. How many of the rugs that you see are worth paying $4 per foot to clean? How many customers will knowingly still pay almost as much to clean it as the cost of replacement?

 

[Papa John]

Here is a good question, (and I think I know the answer). How do you know if a tufted is hand woven or machine if the backing is covered by a latex coated canvas? Makes it hard to examine the weft and warp.

A tufted rug is never woven.
I don't think it matters if its hand or machine tufted.
weft and warp are not a concern in tufted rugs.
However, be cautious of tufted rugs and have dark-colored canvas backing as the color may bleed through to the face yarns.

 

[Nomad74]

A tufted rug is never woven.
I don't think it matters if its hand or machine tufted.
weft and warp are not a concern in tufted rugs.
However, be cautious of tufted rugs and have dark-colored canvas backing as the color may bleed through to the face yarns.

Yeah you’re right. I had a brain fart. I was more focused on the back. Is there a way to tell if a tufted rug is machine made bs hand made if you are able to peel back the latex coated canvas. I would think machine would be really uniform.

 

[The Great Oz]

Bryan, you are obviously in the thick of the rug cleaning industry today. How many of the rugs that you see are worth paying $4 per foot to clean?

For us, about 40% of the rugs we clean are charged at around $4. Some we charge $5.50 for, but those are rare/extremely valuable/Ps n the A.

How many customers will knowingly still pay almost as much to clean it as the cost of replacement?

Lots.

We often work on rugs that the combined cleaning and repair costs exceed replacement and we tell the customer that. If we don't think the rug will turn out well we strongly suggest spending the money on replacement instead, and make them pay in advance if they say, "Just do your best."

We also charge as little as $1 psf for machine tufted or cheap woven rugs and it might still be more than you'd pay for one on sale. Some people just like their rug, and some people aren't into filling the dump with still usable rugs.

 

[Cleanworks]

I charge a flat rate of $2.50 sqft plus $60 for pick up and delivery. We have additional charges for heavy urine contamination, de-mothing, moth repellent, protectors, etc. I am finding original hand knotted rugs the easiest to clean and tufted poly rugs the most difficult. Our prices have bugger all to do with the value of the rug. People know what they paid for the rug and what they're going to pay for the cleaning. It's their choice.

 

[Zee]

How many of the rugs that you see are worth paying $4 per foot to clean? How many customers will knowingly still pay almost as much to clean it as the cost of replacement?

Most people will still elect to have their own rug cleaned, instead of replacement...Even after realizing the cost equality...and the reason is, because they bought those rugs for their decor/color scheme/ design elements. So it is actually more sensible to clean them than trying to find replacements to match whatever they need them matched with.
Not to mention the convenience factor of the rugs being picked up, cleaned, and dropped off (in most cases) by the cleaning company, as opposed to them having to worry about the disposal of rugs and THEN the running around and hauling of the new rugs.

 

[The Great Oz]

Is there a way to tell if a tufted rug is machine made vs. hand made if you are able to peel back the latex coated canvas. I would think machine would be really uniform.

The hand loomed copy of high-end machine tufted carpet uses a similar poly mesh backing, but low quality latex. We've seen these fail in less than one year of use.

Can you tell which is high-end machine tufted vs. woven copy?

No need to peel off the backing though. Grin the carpet the same way as a hand-tufted. You'll see the woven structure at the base of the nap.

The difference between the machine tufted backing above and the hand tufted backing is pretty easy. A hand tufted will typically have a canvas back that comes in several colors and will have a 2 inch wide folded cloth or strap trim.

The picture under Pics? shows two rugs that have the typical hand tufted canvas backing, and most would call them both hand tufted. The hand loomed (woven) copy of a hand tufted rug will look identical from the back and face, so grinning the rug is important to tell the difference.

 

[Papa John]

Is there a way to tell if a tufted rug is machine made bs hand made if you are able to peel back the latex coated canvas. I would think machine would be really uniform.

I dont think it matters. the latex will hold the weft/warp yarns of the primary backing in place.

 

[Nomad74]

The hand loomed copy of high-end machine tufted carpet uses a similar poly mesh backing, but low quality latex. We've seen these fail in less than one year of use.

Can you tell which is high-end machine tufted vs. woven copy?
View attachment 100231

No need to peel off the backing though. Grin the carpet the same way as a hand-tufted. You'll see the woven structure at the base of the nap.

View attachment 100232


The difference between the machine tufted backing above and the hand tufted backing is pretty easy. A hand tufted will typically have a canvas back that comes in several colors and will have a 2 inch wide folded cloth or strap trim.

The picture under Pics? shows two rugs that have the typical hand tufted canvas backing, and most would call them both hand tufted. The hand loomed (woven) copy of a hand tufted rug will look identical from the back and face, so grinning the rug is important to tell the difference.

Awesome examples. Thanks! How are you holding up there in Seattle? Are things as crazy as the news makes it out?

 

[The Great Oz]

I dont think it matters. the latex will hold the weft/warp yarns of the primary backing in place.

The latex quality of hand-tufted commodity rugs is terrible. It not only breaks down quickly, the color can wick up and discolor the nap. Tough to remove.

How are you holding up there in Seattle? Are things as crazy as the news makes it out?

Maybe we're used to the competition between San Francisco, Portland and Seattle to have the most idiotic fringe groups, or governance that tries to out-idiot the same cities, but it's not too bad...

...for people that don't have to travel anywhere near the crazy zone.

 

[Cleanworks]

I dont think it matters. the latex will hold the weft/warp yarns of the primary backing in place.

Until it doesn't.