hwe or encap?

[lust1kiddo]

Hey guys,
Just got me second commercial gig. The job is small hallways in a building maybe 75 feet long. Issue is that the carpet is on plywood with no padding so the last guy who cleaned it, the floor warped a little. I took a look at the place and the carpet needs like a serious cleaning like strong traffic land and liquid 90 style. I told them I would put my proposal together. I have never cleaned encap style before and when I called my distributor he was ready to sell me a machine. I was thinking I should just find a place to rent one. How do I deep clean by this method and will it work as good as hwe? Please advise because I wanna do the gig.

Thanks!
Jarred

 

[Dolly Llama]

H Issue is that the carpet is on plywood with no padding so the last guy who cleaned it, the floor warped a little.

Thanks!
Jarred

warped the subfloor????

what he clean it with?
a garden hose and squeegee??


if the joint is trashed, encRap won't do much.
Sounds like it needs a scrub and extract.
which would be a perfect time to experiment with encRapping, cause you'll need a rotary to scrub anyway, so encRap a spot to see how it preforms there.
Scrub and extract the rest and see the difference.

If the subfloor is uneven, get some bonnets to post bonnet the job, or you'll have mucho wicking probs in the low spots


..l.T.A.

 

[randy]

Jarred, Please make sure you cover yourself on this job. Note the warped floor on the contract, take photos or better a video if you can. Don't let the "preexisting condition" become a claim against your insurance.

I would high recommend you find some other cleaner or distributor that will rent you a cimex for a sort of try before you buy deal. If you were closer I would let you use mine. Also don't jump and buy a new one (around $2,600 from Jon Don for the 19") TAKE YOUR TIME and find a great "used" one. I recently picked up a 19" Cimex for $1,000 that had never been used, brand new. Also www.craigslistcrawler.com will normally show 1/2 dozen Cimex units for sale. Despite some industry urban legends used Cimex units are available. I have a bunch of encap equipment and will be happy to walk you through the benefits of each, but the Cimex is hard to beat on commercial.

 

[lust1kiddo]

Yeah my distributor wanted me to buy the pro chem super pro cap machine. I don't know how to use the bonnet machines. They basically said I could lease the machine for 60 per month and then take it at the end of the term. If this method works then I am sure it would be worth it because this is the second building this management company is sending me on and they have more for me to do.

 

[Bruce Humphrey]

Yeah my distributor wanted me to buy the pro chem super pro cap machine. I don't know how to use the bonnet machines. They basically said I could lease the machine for 60 per month and then take it at the end of the term. If this method works then I am sure it would be worth it because this is the second building this management company is sending me on and they have more for me to do.

I think you will be very disappointed with the Pro Caps machine on commercial carpet.

 

[lust1kiddo]

Bruce, what do you recommend I use? I am taking all info I need. Its a good Job and I want the loot.

 

[Bruce Humphrey]

Bruce, what do you recommend I use? I am taking all info I need. Its a good Job and I want the loot.

I would try encapping with a 175 before purchasing the pro caps. I own a pro caps and it's great for pre scrubbing residential carpets , but it sucks pre scrubbing Commercial carpet.

 

[Royal Man]

Pad encap it with a 175 and some somewhat agressive bonnets and you should be just fine.

You can remove a lot of soil this way.

I do it all the time with some increadibly soiled situations and the clients are happpier than they were with HWE.

The contact and friction with the pad does the trick.

 

[ascrubabove]

Dave you may need to tell him kinda "kindergarden style" cause he has never done encap stuff

 

[Royal Man]

Re: hwy or encap?

I tried to break it down to step by step (kindergarden style)

Use the brush bonnet combination pads listed here.

http://www.tuwaymops.com/Products/carpetbonnets.html

Use a 175. (Rental for now you can get them school auctions for almost free)

Buy a couple of pads that are 2" larger than the 175 machine.

For cleaning:

Vac carpet (Or can be done by house keeping)

Spray the bonnet pad till damp.(Just the side that will be down on the carpet)

Put pad under the machine (You will need a pad driver for the 175. Do not run a bare driver on carpet)

Set handle of machine to where you get a good balance (For a newbie it's better to have the handle lower than higher)

Press the switch on the handle.(just one switch)

If you have the handle at the right level the machine will not go left of right.(this is the neutral position)

VERY IMPORTENT:If the machine takes off, Immediately let go of the switch on the handle before you put a hole in the wall.

Re-level the machine handle to find the balancing point.

When found If you lower the handle 2' the machine will go left and if you raise the handle 2" it will go right.

Do this a few times, gradually lowering and raising the handle and returning to the neutural level position to get comfortable with the machine.

When you master the machine(or at least are able to use it without taking out walls and dividers)

Spray the carpet directly ahead of the machine (a small section at a time) and the run the bonnet over it.

Left to right and along the walls.

then spray a new section and move on.

Spray enough encap juice so that is shows some light whitening.

After cleaning a large section you can then lightly spray some of the previously cleaned heavy soiled area and repeat if you want.

Don't worry.

With a little practice and the tips I provided you will be able to master the machine in no time.

Now go make some money!!

 

[encapman]

if the joint is trashed, encRap won't do much.

I humbly disagree. In fact, I emphatically disagree. We've seen too many disastrous looking carpets come back to life again following a good encap cleaning. I do agree that HWE is a good idea for a neglected carpet, since it has the greatest potential to flush the largest quantity of soil from the carpet from the carpet in a single shot. But on the flip side HWE also has the highest potential for wick-backs on a CGD carpet.

I would recommend bonnet/OP cleaning with a good encap detergent, or you can perform a straight encap cleaning. Either way, if you'll make a few extra passes with your scrubber, you can literally breathe new life into a filthy CGD carpet.

All you will need is a rotary machine with a pad driver and a shampoo tank (you can always step up to a Cimex later if this pans out for you). Add pads to your rotary machine such as the FiberPlus pads. Get a good quality encap detergent that crystallizes when it dries. And then slowly scrub the carpet. Make a single wet pass followed by multiple dry passes. I think you may be amazed at the results. And if you are using a good encap detergent, the carpets will look good after they're dry and they'll continue to improve even more after a few vacuumings.

Wishing you success!

 

[Dolly Llama]

if the joint is trashed, encRap won't do much.

I humbly disagree. In fact, I emphatically disagree.

of coarse you do, cause you're an encRap juice and machine salesman.

just how many trashed com rags have you roto scrubbed, extracted and post bonneted????
and not with that POS carpet SOAKING Steamon Demon thingie either...I'm talking with a real TM and quality wand in the hands of a "good" technician

WITHOUT exception, a superior job in EVERY way will result

I'd venture a guess I've done more encRapping and bonnet cleaning than YOU have done TM cleaning


..l.T.A.

 

[Royal Man]

This is becoming a pissing match.

I have seen it either way.

Soil removed with a bonnet after HWE.

And soil removed with HWE after bonnet cleaning.

THeir is a place for each method.

NO method removes all the soil.

I have seen bonnet cleaning beat HWE many times on very soiled carpet.

Sometimes they need contact and friction.

 

[encapman]

Larry why are you inevitably so full of piss and vinegar towards encap? Is it the process that you dislike or is it me that you've got a problem with? Or perhaps, you're just an unhappy guy? Not that any of that matters in the big scheme of things, I'm just curious why you're so adamant against a process that absolutely fixes CGD problems and is making cleaners all over the world a lot of money.

HWE is great, but there is more than one way to get the job done. You know before Columbus came along, the general consensus was that the earth was flat. Turns out the common view of things was limited at the time. This reminds me of this old debate about HWE being the only real and true way to clean a carpet. That idea's as full of holes as trying to say that the earth is flat. Encap is just another tool, and when it comes to commercial carpet it's a very useful one to have on hand.

You questioned my integrity since I "sell" products. That is true, I do sell products. I'll be happy to share the basis of my experience with commercial carpet cleaning and why I was the first person to coin the phrase "Encapsulation CLeaning" when I began to actively promote this process on the message boards. That was nearly a decade ago now, and I took a lot of heat from guys like you who simply couldn't see anything beyond their mighty stainless steel wand. But little by little, people began to give it a try. And today the "Encapsulation Cleaning Method" is mainstream (there goes the theory that the earth is flat). I'm happy to have played a part in that discovery for our industry!

Regarding my cleaning history; I've personally cleaned millions of square feet of commercial carpet, most of it with encapsulation. Isn't it great? Something as simple and elegant as a scrubber and a crystallizing detergent can produce results that fit the commercial niche perfectly. Loooong before I became the "encapman" and started Excellent Supply I was there in the trenches cleaning commercial carpet. I started my "commercial only" cleaning business back in 1982. Through the years I tried every method of cleaning. I spent many of those years cleaning retail stores. After beating my head against the wall I was happy to finally discover a system that worked. And I went on to let other people know what I discovered. Our supply business grew out of that. And I still have my commercial carpet cleaning business running successfully today too. So yes, I do now sell products for commercial carpet cleaning - that's based on experience - lot's of it. And when I say that encapsulation can clean heavily soiled commercial carpets, it's a matter of fact.

Take care somewhat amus



.

 

[Royal Man]

Rick,

This is what I posted on an other board today:

Offering to help others and then becoming the focus of attacks is not uncommon on the boards.

Over the top personalities, perceived anger to you for whatever reason( before they even read the post), alternative motives, ego, negativity ect....

For whatever reason everyone won't see the world your way because of all the baggage they carry.

Even if your motives may be for their own good they will be blind to it.

Just shake it off, Nothing to lose sleep over.

And keep helping the ones that are receptive.

The rest- Forget about 'em!

 

[encapman]

Rick,

Just shake it off, Nothing to lose sleep over.

And keep helping the ones that are receptive.

The rest- Forget about 'em!

Thanks for you kind words Dave. I hope my message didn't come off the wrong way. I'm not losing sleep or stressing over this. Since Larry raised the question I decided to respond. For quite some time now I've ignored these discussions. But I'm still as passionate as ever about commercial carpet care, and encapsulation. So I think I may just pipe up and respond a little more often than I have been. And if that means I'll have to take a little abuse from Larry and Ladwig so be it - that's not a problem. !gotcha!

 

[Dolly Llama]

Larry why are you inevitably so full of piss and vinegar towards encap?




.

I'm not anti encRap.
I am anti HYPE.
and I'm not unhappy in the least either...maybe a little stressed cause we're BURIED with work and trying to keep up, WHILE maintaining HIGH QUALITY workmanship
But to a dirt swirler like yourself, I reckon "OK" is good enough.... :wink: .....
:mrgreen:

Yoakum, if you'll notice I suggested a scrub, extract, and post bonnet as being superior in every way.
if you've never done that , then you're speaking from ignorance and not experience




..L.T.A.

 

[Jimmy L]

.

 

[Desk Jockey]

I would recommend bonnet/OP cleaning with a good encap detergent, or you can perform a straight encap cleaning. Either way, if you'll make a few extra passes with your scrubber, you can literally breathe new life into a filthy CGD carpet.

I agree you Rick, unless it would be faster to use HWE this time. Then once its flushed out, it wouldn't bother me to use Encap to maintain it and then OP when more soiled.

I no longer think HWE is the best solution for all applications, I also don't think using the Cimex and encapping is the best for all applications either.

I would'nt suggest using it in a residential setting unless it was followed up with HWE.

I trust Larry and believe Larry when he says he's experienced at both Encap and OP. While his results are not what we have seen, we do clean in different segments of the cleaning business, so it's reasonable to have different results.

 

[Dolly Llama]

everyone should note, we're not talking "generalities" here
we're dealing with a specific scenario that 1Kiddo asked about


..L.T.A.

 

[encapman]

Yes Larry it's all "hype".
And the earth is flat too.

LOL

 

[encapman]

 

[Jeremy]

Why not HWE then encap/padcap while the hoses are being rolled up? The methods compliment each other well...

 

[GeneMiller]

why not just hwe with encap as the rinse. best of both worlds.

gene

 

[lust1kiddo]

Ok I am using the pro chem pro caps machine with CTI solution. Do I have to vacum when I'm done?

 

[renegade_cowboy]

I got 25,000 sq ft on tuesday I gotta do. I was going to rent the Prochem machine as well, hope its not a mistake. I am also having someone use my TM to cleaned the bad soiled areas.

 

[Desk Jockey]

I don't own one but I've not heard good reviews of the Pro Caps.

I think it's just too light weight, it wants to bounce.

 

[Bruce Humphrey]

I own one and if that thing can encap commercial carpet then someone please show me how :shock:

 

[TimP]

The reviews on the board about the Procaps machine tends to point towards the machine being junk. And on CGD carpet it has been reported to hop a lot and not accomplish the task well.

If you want to use a CRB (counter rotating brush) there are better machines. I think the GLS is the machine, by whittaker I believe Rick sells some that might be made by whittaker.


The smartest thing would be as everyone has suggested and that is to rent or buy a floor buffer, (175 rpm machine 1.5hp) get you a pad soak the pad down with the encap juice. Spray the floor in an open area and learn to control the buffer then go at it.

Also I haven't heard great things about CTI encap juice. I'd buy either from vacaway (vacaway.com) encap green or hot knife. Or you can try excellent supply and buy from RickG, his stuff works well. Or you can call the judsons at truckmountdirect.com and see about getting some "snake oil" encap juice. All of those 3 have been known to do well.

Now for my opinion on ecapsulation.
It works good on sugary spills or oily spills, not grease of course. But for impacted dirt soil it don't work worth a crap.

No you don't vacuum afterwards and you should expect them vacuum if they don't then it's not a good method.

As far as the floor warping. They may have particle board down and it's gonna warp if it gets barely wet. Plywood don't warp easily and requires quite a long time (more than a day) to cause the warping.

 

[lust1kiddo]

ok..i dont know about hopping..its like a lawn mower..it runs very smoothly and I like it. I probably wouldn't use the CTI product but it got about 80% of the crap out. What I should have done was prespray then go ahead with the agitation. I put some TLC ( CTI product) in a spray bottle to go over some of the rough spots with a hand brush and they came right out. You cant move too fast with it and it doesn't spit out too much fluid so don't worry about the overwetting, the stuff dried in about 45 minutes literaly and was only damp to begin with. Overall..i like it and i'm sure once i get the chemistry right i will love it. Way easier than HWE but..just doesn't clean as well. On the other hand, another thing i tried today was one of those small spotting 60 psi machines..I figured I would use that instead of dragging my bigger porti on the job. The suction on this thing is horrible compared to how much it sprayed down. I left it in the car so I will post the name and model tomorrow or something. But it fuckin blows..I am going to see if the boys over there at Kew Forest can put a stronger vac in it or something. If they cant, I just ate 500.00. I don't know how they say you could clean upholstery with it...it would totally drench it and not get anything out.