bob vawter
Grassy Knoller
"napalm through your TM"
That was a good one Mikey.........
That was a good one Mikey.........
HWE vs Padding - Pricing
- Thread starter Ron Werner
- Start date
Padden McFadden
Member
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2006
- Messages
- 352
Ron said "I want to see WHITE pads, not black. By the time the pads are black they should have been changed a minute earlier. If its black, its spreading. The last pad should almost clean if it works that well. "
Ron, I don't mean to be a jerk, but do you realy think John G. needs lessons on how to OP clean from you? LOL
Don't you see that you have more to learn then you have to teach when it comes to OP cleaning?
Ron, I don't mean to be a jerk, but do you realy think John G. needs lessons on how to OP clean from you? LOL
Don't you see that you have more to learn then you have to teach when it comes to OP cleaning?
You only need more experience Marty... :~)
I will give Mikey this: he does try different things and tries to see just what they will do, he will get a lot more out of OP than you Marty, he will take it beyond what others say and experiment with it and that is what we ALL have to do with ANY method we choose.
I don't see what you say a criticism nearly as much as I see what you say as inexperienced and naive, I haven't found you to be one to go beyond what others say and actually TEST and work it out like some others. So you see many OP'rs as a cult of full of crap, when they KNOW what they can do because they do it daily.
I personally don't care if a person uses one method or 20, but the OLD adage of mastering your method still applies some seem to have no problem doing so whereas others have no clue as to what that even means.
I will give Mikey this: he does try different things and tries to see just what they will do, he will get a lot more out of OP than you Marty, he will take it beyond what others say and experiment with it and that is what we ALL have to do with ANY method we choose.
I don't see what you say a criticism nearly as much as I see what you say as inexperienced and naive, I haven't found you to be one to go beyond what others say and actually TEST and work it out like some others. So you see many OP'rs as a cult of full of crap, when they KNOW what they can do because they do it daily.
I personally don't care if a person uses one method or 20, but the OLD adage of mastering your method still applies some seem to have no problem doing so whereas others have no clue as to what that even means.
Mikey P
Administrator
I agree.
Marty has taken Steve's word that a Tuway is all that's needed.
Tuways are the HWE equivalent of a Hydrahoe or 802 wand.
Cheap and chimp proof. But hardly that Pig's meow in this day and age.
hogjowl
Idiot™
Not so. I've been using gladiator pads now for a couple of months, and am not ashamed to admit that I was wrong. While Tuway's do clean most commercial well, they aren't nearly as good on residential.
I even pulled out that 40 piece batch of cotton pads that PadSon sold me a couple of years ago.
I even pulled out that 40 piece batch of cotton pads that PadSon sold me a couple of years ago.
bob vawter
Grassy Knoller
i think i jus puked in my mouf...a little!
hogjowl
Idiot™
Hey Bawb. I'm not too proud to take notice of what other people think and try their ways. I found John was right about cotton pads.
I'm even beginning to think Darlene is not as stupid as she seems in her posts.
I'm even beginning to think Darlene is not as stupid as she seems in her posts.
bob vawter
Grassy Knoller
I puked again an' yes she is...........
However I DO lik yor VIOLET colored Pig.....
However I DO lik yor VIOLET colored Pig.....
Ron Werner
Member
Darlene posted her big #’s, and it was for a lot more than just “cleaning”; dye work and restorative cleaning. From the sounds of it she did a fantastic job. AAAAAAAAA If you can get those numbers Darlene, you've a lot more on the ball than most guys in here.
The situation:
How often do carpet cleaners B&C about how much to charge? A LOT!
We should be able to charge more! Shouldn’t we?
Bonnet cleaning, padding, OP, encap, or whatever, the equipment costs, chem costs are a fraction of HWE. Time and effort to achieve the same appearance is a fraction of HWE. Even the potential for damage is less. The learning curve is less.
The initial premise:
SO what is it about HWE that keeps us from having the confidence to charge $1/sf. I’ve heard of guys balking at someone that said they were charging a $1.
Where the thread has led to:
A pissing contest between methods
(Just kidding, don’t get your sht in a knot over that comment. Too good a setup to let go.)
I’m very anal about my cleaning, I have that part in common with Darlene. Just ask Bob Foster, he’s seen it and Steve Marsh keeps telling me I over clean/take too long. I don’t post my times or $/hr much because frankly, I feel I’d be ridiculed for taking that long. Anyone else spent 2-3hrs on a vacant 2 rooms and a hall to make $150? I clean to clean. I don’t pretend to clean, I don’t clean to fluff, I clean to remove the soil. I don’t know how to clean it any faster. Each step takes the time it takes. If I were to speed up then I would leave something to pad up. Its tedious as hell! Execute and lots of time to think.
Has anyone ever vacuumed a carpet so long it looks like the carpet is moving rather than the vacuum??
That said, I haven’t the time to fart around with a method that I don’t believe, physically and logically, will remove as much soil. From what I’ve read I might post pad someday to speed dry if anything or pick up the wee bit that “might” be left.
Talk about anal, if I were to OP, and I flipped that pad over and it was black, it’s done, flipped or replaced. How can a dirty towel clean effectively? That would be like me trying to HWE with slightly soiled water.
Just how black do those pads get before people replace them anyway?
My experience with the other methods: little to zip
Have I a lot to learn about OP and the other methods? You bet.
Do I have a lot to learn about it? Yes. Maybe.
Is there a lot to learn about it??? I don’t know, is there??
DO I need to try EVERY method that comes along and master it or can I examine the method and logically deduce its effectiveness in order to evaluate whether its worth my time or not? Can I not listen to others that have used it and evaluate it from their experience? I didn’t buy a Rotary Drimaster because I could see from looking at it that it wouldn’t clean near as good as their claims. I’m not about to go buy a HOST Liberator either.
John, I’ve heard you are the guru of OP, but you certainly aren’t the guru of HWE, not sure who has that honour. Care to learn about how to really HWE as you are telling me to learn about OP?
AS far as mastering HWE, its not rocket science, despite the CRI SOA BS. Prevac, prespray, groom, rinse/extract and it comes clean. NBD. The BD is in how long one takes doing each step and the chemistry that is used. (BTW I am a Master Tech, for what that’s worth.) Most guys look at $/hr and don’t take the time needed to do it right.
Why do “the other methods” always compare themselves to the worst of the HWE industry, ie guys that leave a carpet soiled, or soaked or whatever??? Lets compare all padders to Chemwho. That’ll splatter the fan, wouldn’t it!
You ain’t seen one of my vids because I never bothered to video my work as yet. I work alone and its kinda hard to be across the room with a vid camera and pushing a vacuum or wand at the same time. Plus who wants to watch a 3hr vid? These vids on youtube have guys from every method cleaning a room or hall in a minute or two. That really teaches a lot. Not!
I don’t know yet if this is MY calling, but this is where He has me at the time and I’ll do the work the best I can, I’ll help whomever I can, and I’ll try to improve whatever I can and I’ll promote good cleaning-whatever method that proves itself.
Is my post too long?
I did try to keep it short
The situation:
How often do carpet cleaners B&C about how much to charge? A LOT!
We should be able to charge more! Shouldn’t we?
Bonnet cleaning, padding, OP, encap, or whatever, the equipment costs, chem costs are a fraction of HWE. Time and effort to achieve the same appearance is a fraction of HWE. Even the potential for damage is less. The learning curve is less.
The initial premise:
SO what is it about HWE that keeps us from having the confidence to charge $1/sf. I’ve heard of guys balking at someone that said they were charging a $1.
Where the thread has led to:
A pissing contest between methods
I agree! It would take at least 35 yrs for an OP to clean as well as HWE.
(Just kidding, don’t get your sht in a knot over that comment. Too good a setup to let go.)I’m very anal about my cleaning, I have that part in common with Darlene. Just ask Bob Foster, he’s seen it and Steve Marsh keeps telling me I over clean/take too long. I don’t post my times or $/hr much because frankly, I feel I’d be ridiculed for taking that long. Anyone else spent 2-3hrs on a vacant 2 rooms and a hall to make $150? I clean to clean. I don’t pretend to clean, I don’t clean to fluff, I clean to remove the soil. I don’t know how to clean it any faster. Each step takes the time it takes. If I were to speed up then I would leave something to pad up. Its tedious as hell! Execute and lots of time to think.
Has anyone ever vacuumed a carpet so long it looks like the carpet is moving rather than the vacuum??
That said, I haven’t the time to fart around with a method that I don’t believe, physically and logically, will remove as much soil. From what I’ve read I might post pad someday to speed dry if anything or pick up the wee bit that “might” be left.
Talk about anal, if I were to OP, and I flipped that pad over and it was black, it’s done, flipped or replaced. How can a dirty towel clean effectively? That would be like me trying to HWE with slightly soiled water.
Just how black do those pads get before people replace them anyway?
My experience with the other methods: little to zip
Have I a lot to learn about OP and the other methods? You bet.
Bonnet spins and OP oscillates. In Teri-Towels case, it vibrates. Did I miss anything? I’m sure you’ll let me know.
I’m not trying nor do I have any inclination to teach it. I do have LOTS to learn, about MUCH in this industry. My only inclination to learn any other method is to be knowledgeable about them so I can properly advise my clients if another method would be more to their benefit. Or to use the method for those rare jobs (very rare) when HWE doesn’t clean enough, ie CGD or extreme soiled comm carpet, or for where a TM won’t reach, or possibly in place of a porty. I have limited space in my current truck so getting an OP isn’t even an option at this time.
Do I have a lot to learn about it? Yes. Maybe.
Is there a lot to learn about it??? I don’t know, is there??
DO I need to try EVERY method that comes along and master it or can I examine the method and logically deduce its effectiveness in order to evaluate whether its worth my time or not? Can I not listen to others that have used it and evaluate it from their experience? I didn’t buy a Rotary Drimaster because I could see from looking at it that it wouldn’t clean near as good as their claims. I’m not about to go buy a HOST Liberator either.
John, I’ve heard you are the guru of OP, but you certainly aren’t the guru of HWE, not sure who has that honour. Care to learn about how to really HWE as you are telling me to learn about OP?
AS far as mastering HWE, its not rocket science, despite the CRI SOA BS. Prevac, prespray, groom, rinse/extract and it comes clean. NBD. The BD is in how long one takes doing each step and the chemistry that is used. (BTW I am a Master Tech, for what that’s worth.) Most guys look at $/hr and don’t take the time needed to do it right.
Why do “the other methods” always compare themselves to the worst of the HWE industry, ie guys that leave a carpet soiled, or soaked or whatever??? Lets compare all padders to Chemwho. That’ll splatter the fan, wouldn’t it!
You ain’t seen one of my vids because I never bothered to video my work as yet. I work alone and its kinda hard to be across the room with a vid camera and pushing a vacuum or wand at the same time. Plus who wants to watch a 3hr vid? These vids on youtube have guys from every method cleaning a room or hall in a minute or two. That really teaches a lot. Not!
I don’t know yet if this is MY calling, but this is where He has me at the time and I’ll do the work the best I can, I’ll help whomever I can, and I’ll try to improve whatever I can and I’ll promote good cleaning-whatever method that proves itself.
Is my post too long?
I did try to keep it short
bob vawter
Grassy Knoller
Dolly said:
That was a well written properly structured sentence wit NO misspelt words at all....GO GIRL!
Great post Ron, I too am anal and I have been all over the US and Canada cleaning against HWE guys, most of who told me I "couldn't" do as good and definitely not better than HWE. I know HWE but am no master of the method, by any stretch, but have cleaned with several who are, they were surprised, most surprised enough to add OP to their arsenal, and several switched over completely.
It definitely wasn't based on what I did or did not say, but only on what OP did.
It definitely wasn't based on what I did or did not say, but only on what OP did.
bob vawter
Grassy Knoller
That only proves that SOME people will believe anything they hear.....usually the ones that can't step up to the proper method!
Poor OPee wanted one of my Genies so bad that he was making me payments on one......
Poor OPee wanted one of my Genies so bad that he was making me payments on one......
I hold the title of Greatest Carpet Cleaner on the Panet. I personally try mastering every method I can. I have a large enough truck to carry all my toys and I love trashed carpet(makes me look better). I prescrub with a mercury 175 and really take the time and effort to do that job right. I keep my vacuum clean as a whistle so I don't lose suction and vacuum 95% of my jobs. Since there was enough positive feedback I ordered a bunch of Judson Juice o2 system and Hot Sauce
With that said on another post someone told me I could not be 3 things 1. affodrable 2. The best 3. the fastest. My reply was simple I will never be the fastest. I take the time to do as perfect a job as possible. I do not want to rip off my customers so the host liberator stays home. I used that machine text book and the method just isn't good enough.
I just bought an OP machine, chems, pads everything I hope I will need. If it doesn't have a regular situation for me to use it or doesn't meet my standards well into the broom closet it will go. I am hoping that I will find situations to sell this on a consistent basis
With that said on another post someone told me I could not be 3 things 1. affodrable 2. The best 3. the fastest. My reply was simple I will never be the fastest. I take the time to do as perfect a job as possible. I do not want to rip off my customers so the host liberator stays home. I used that machine text book and the method just isn't good enough.
I just bought an OP machine, chems, pads everything I hope I will need. If it doesn't have a regular situation for me to use it or doesn't meet my standards well into the broom closet it will go. I am hoping that I will find situations to sell this on a consistent basis
having personally been a noob at HWE and OP at one point in time, it is safe to say that the potential for damage is far greater for a noob on the smart end of an OP machine -vs- a noob on the smart end of a wand.
thanx --- Derek.
thanx --- Derek.
RichardnTn
Member
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2006
- Messages
- 447
Which method leaves the carpet the cleanest ? less dirt on the yarn, less hair, less lint, less sand and grit on the backing..... Is it like putting a pretty hat on an ugly baby, hat's pretty but the baby's still ugly? No flames please, I ask out of trying to be objective... I am going to get a machine to bonnet after some of this wicking olefin. Richard R
Ken Snow
RIP
If you can't clean 1000sf an hour and get it clean I would say it is the operator, not the method that is the problem :-)
