If you could have ONE..&..only ONE standard in this Industy

[joe harper]

WHAT WOULD IT BE....?

 

[Lee Stockwell]

That's the holy grail for sure.

Lot's of people would be happy to sell it to you....

 

[sweendogg]

ABOVE ALL ELSE.. Number one industry STANDARDD. BE COMPLETELY HONEST NO MATTER WHAT! I guarentee you can not go wrong. You may piss some people off, but this single rule will take you farther than anything else.

This is what keeps the very oldest business around for generations. A company is honest: it makes a comitment to provide a service and it makes good on that service to the best of their ability because they are honest with their customers.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

I have to warn that some honesty can be suicidal. Some people don't have a right to certain information, and others will be hurt by it.

Many times it's best to be quiet when "honesty" would cause more harm than good.

 

[joe harper]

Re: If you could have ONE..&..only ONE standard in this Industry

You are right Lee..!

I was going through some financial papers about an hour ago..I was looking at some
closing documents "Tax Purposes"..and was looking at my "Title Insurance Policy"...!
Here in Fl. we have a law called a "Promulgated Rate"...This law was instituted in the
late 1990's. This law FORBIDS.."low ball" Title companies to offer "ridiculously LOW"
rates for a Title policy..!!

The law sets a MINIMUM RATE to be charged to write a policy in Fl. So the Company
must charge ATLEAST the minimum rate.. The company is allowed to charge MORE money
for this service..However they MUST disclose the service can be obtained from another company..at the lower rate.

The Fl. Bar Association "attorneys"..Lobbied HARD for this law..because they had to pay
MUST higher rates for their Title Insurance Policies. There were Title companies
"popping-up" on every corner ..taking their business. THIS LEVELED THE PLAYING FEILD...!!!

It just seems to ME..that as an industry..We could do something similar, to institute
a reasonable rate for our services...FOR EXAMPLE: A cleaner could make a "livable wage"
at .15 sq.ft...This could be a promulgated rate..! If they charged a lower rate..their
business license would be revoked. This would PROTECT the consumer from $4.95 a room
B&S operators..And allow all legitimate cleaners to charge what ever rate they wish..

IT JUST SETS A BOTTOM FOR THE MARKE... :idea:

 

[sweendogg]

... being honest doesn't make you a tell all! Loose lips sink ships thats a true statement. But have integrity and honest when dealing with customers. And if they don't need to or shouldn't know something because it would put you, your company, employees the customer themselves at some sort of risk. Then the honest thing to do there is to not disclose the information. Rather than supply false information. Again you asked for one and only one standard... While a pricing rule may sound like a good idea.. you have just given the bottom feeders an improvement in their quality of life because now people have to pay 0.15/sqft for squirt and jerk cleaners.

And how can you justify that pricing structure from one cleaning method to another?

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Bill Bane used to teach "never publish a number". There's an element of wisdom to that for the reason you gave.

 

[Jeremy]

The only standard I concern myself with is my customers standard.

 

[joe harper]

[And how can you justify that pricing structure from one cleaning method to another?]

By setting the LEAGLE "bottom fee"...You control the market...

I can clean @.35sf and sell the client on SERVICE & QUALITY..."deliver value"

I canNOT..close a client against the $4.95 guy...

"Without giving the INDUSTRY a BLACK EYE"...That is where your HONESTY dilemma raises
it's UglY Head...I refuse to spend 15 minutes on the phone..Bashing "B&S" tactics with
a caller...!

"SOMETIMES THERE IS NO NURISHMENT IN THE TRUTH".... :wink:
If we lower ourselves to that conversation....WE LOSE..


Ps I have NO problem...helping the little guy raise his prices..!
It is good for everyone...It stabilizes the market..IMHO...
There will always be a lower end market..let them compete in it..
Then they would NOT have to be 50% subs for all the NEW marketing "WHORES"....

 

[ACE]

Dang Harper, It sounds like Cole really has you losing sleep.

Just kidding!

I am also concerned when I hear about contractors working for less than a living wage. Predatory franchisors and national contractors ruined the janitorial industry with similar tactics. I would love to see some class action lawsuits.

 

[joe harper]

Thanks Mike..

Actually...I am getting too much sleep...!

I turned the business over to my son 1/1/10..he has the whole "ball of wax"..Now..!

He has noticed in the past week..a huge amount of "price shoppers".... :shock:

We sat down today and came up with a plan...to handle the change in the market... :wink:

Greg is not really in my area...he would have NO effect on my son's business...
We have a VERY large customer base ...accumulated over a 30 year period..

However..Greg will be able to dominate his market area..in a very short time..!!!
Many of the cleaners in his area...will be wiped out.. But this "biz" ...is a game
of survivial... :wink:

 

[Bjorn]

o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZqsZitTf_4o]

 

[Mikey P]

What ever Rob Allen decides which is best for me.

 

[joe harper]

What ever Rob Allen decides which is best for me.

"Will you PLEASE...give "T"..his MeD'S...& turn off his YoU-TuBe..."BUTTON"...

He is WORSE than that "f-N"..Harper with the SmiLLeY'S... thathurts :mrgreen:

 

[Erik]

I think T's would be, all his costomers to be very hot woman

 

[hogjowl]

I would MUCH rather deal with low ball hackers than the government ANY DAY.

Please do not encourage government regulation in our businesses.

 

[sweendogg]

Sounds like our business models are very similar Harp. Your right there is no point in bashing the b&S guys but rather just focusing on the value you can offer them. I know my biggest problem when talking to customers on the phone is not stopping to ask what there complete needs are rather than just explaining our system. I tend to answer their questions before I ask my own.

 

[joe harper]

I just see NO....organization in our industry that tries to establish a threshold for the
consumer to compare the cost of a legitimate service. The consumer has NOT been
informed or educated as to a reasonable fee for carpet cleaning.

Most industries have lobbyist or a REPUTABLE organization that represents there constituents. DON'T misunderstand my motives here...I have No use for Unions
or government intrusion into our industry..!

What we do have IS...distributor's and organizations offering "cookie cutter" marketing
plan's & certifications...that are designed to line their own pockets..! They have NO
interest in using any of their PROFIT's.."gleaned from this industry" to invest in the
FUTURE of the hand that feeds them.

I have NEVER seen a NATIONAL ad on television...To promote the integrity of our industry.
If a Jon Don or Bridgepoint.."Big Dogs" would put aside .50 cents a gallon from the sale
all their juice.."I would buy their product" This could FUND an ad campaign to inform the
public HOW TO HIRE A COMPEDENT CLEANER...would be a great start.. :wink:

Would you go out and shop the price of your NEUROSURGEON... :roll:
I know the surgeon that charges $2000.00...surely does the same job as the surgeon
that charges $20,000.00 ...RIGHT... :?

 

[Jim Martin]

That there were standards...........

 

[Hoody]

This is a tough one. We're one of the only industries that have been able to "self-regulate", without much of the government coming in and putting their say on things(the various IICRC Standards have helped with this)

As time goes on, and things change we need to continue to self-regulate ourselves. We know the government is already breathing down our necks with this, and its really only a matter of time.

I look at the industry today, and wonder what it'll be like when I'm in my 40's and 50's. I know Joe's son and I will have it much harder then, than we do today.

 

[RIP IT]

RB26TT
now you're talking MY language!

 

[Hoody]

Okay I should have said the standards are an ATTEMPT to self regulate even though it isn't LAW. My bad.

 

[Hoody]

Did you get bad food at your classes ?

 

[joe harper]

Many of us see our TRADE as a JOB...We need to see it as a BUSINESS....!

If you don't see what is happening to this industry.."You are Blind"... :!:
We are already regulated by the mills warranties,EPA,Federal State & Local ordinances,
and most of all Insurance Companies..If you think that the Insurance companies have
NOT taken control of the Water Restoration part of this Industry.."You are Crazy"...

Not only do they CONTROL the market...The control the PRICE..!!! They have instituted
policies & procedures such as "Preferred Vendor's" & "Exactimate"....Which are the PUREST
forms of COLLUSION.!!! They have done this to control their "Exposure" for Incompetent
& Dishonest Cleaners..! It is BIG MONEY..and if you are not represented properly...you
will be SQUEEZED out of the market..!

I Would venture to say that..80% of restoration could be completed CHEAPER..through
tear-out & replacement. BUT the procedures that are "REQUIRED" & DRYING EQUIPMENT
that is "SPECKED"...produces much more PROFIT for all involved. Any restorer's here
must admit that the "REQUIRE PROCEDURES" that are in place..MIMIC the procedures
required by the ASEBESTOS INDUSTRY...almost verbatim...!

For those of you that that are NOT aware..! Asbestos removal.."CAUSED" more exposure
to the public..by the attempted removal...than if it had been "LEFT ALONE"...!!!!
The pipes could have been SIMPLY been "encapsulated" with a common household GLUE..
and been safe for another 100 years...The danger was in the removal process..when the
fibers were allow to become AIRBORN..!!

So...It is NOT how the cleaning industry will be regulated..it is WHEN.. :shock:
I feel we as "cleaners" ...had better become PROACTIVE....instead of REACTIVE... :wink:

Owners Operators ..days are NUMBERED.!!!!

Soon we will become just "LABORERS"...for an UNION,INSURANCE COMPANY,or a CORPERATE
CONGLOMERATE, or perhaps worse than all a GOVERMENT REGULATED "GrEeN cLeaN" POLICY.

Isn't CoMMuNiSm GreAT....

PS This is not intended as an alarmist post..."Just open ONE EYE.." :!:
LIke my "MIA BuDDY"..Jimmy Lawdig"..AKA "dADDY"..

 

[joe harper]

Cole has you that scared? :wink:

Sorry Fred...

I missed that post... :!:

Little "gReGoRy".. is still in the WOODSHED with me..

Soon he will succumb to my "Hazing"...they all do.. :wink:

Look how I have helped..Scott Sergetti.. He is now residing in a "MeNtAl InSTitUtE"
in Up-State NY. being tutored in sPeLLinG & receives his "Lithium" in a timely manner.. 8)

And what about "Brian Robison"..aka "MaRy".. :!: he is NO longer a post whore..& has
moved to TEXAS.."where everyTHING is BIGGER"..Which has SaTiSfIeD his homosexual
issues..and he has calmed down..I always suspected he was a SIZE QUEEN... :roll:

Ps Notice how "I"..have never RaTTlEd you CaGe.."Fred"...."I know what I am doing".. :wink:

 

[daniel@procarpet]

So you want to monopolize the carpet cleaning industry and have a set minimum. The market place sets the price and it is up to the customer to go with the service that fits their needs and their budget. The airlines tried to monopolize and set prices and it hurt them and the consumer. The free market benefits the consumer in many ways. I would love to get .35 cents a foot and can with a lot of customers but I also don't advertise in the yp and would never try to get high end jobs out of the yp. You mention your son has encountered a lot of price shoppers. How many times must I say yp = price shoppers plain and simple. If you want to command a higher price then the only way you are going to get that price and close jobs is to bait and switch to a degree. Ofer the customer a basic cleaning (low moisture, open areas only etc.) and quote that price over the phone. Upon inspection hand the customer a price list with each of your cleaning packages and services. Give them the option for a basic cleaning or your more thorough cleaning at a higer rate and have them sign off on the price. If they can not afford your deeper cleaning then give them a basic cleaning.

You would only close about 10 percent of your jobs here out of the yp cleaning at .35 cents a foot. Now if you did what it took to get your foot in the door and gave the customer options and let them choose, you would likely convince most of them to go with your more expensive cleaning packages and also get a lot of repeats as well. You would still be providing a premium service and not a splash and dash poor cleaning.

 

[Hoody]

Many of us see our TRADE as a JOB...We need to see it as a BUSINESS....!

If you don't see what is happening to this industry.."You are Blind"... :!:
We are already regulated by the mills warranties,EPA,Federal State & Local ordinances,
and most of all Insurance Companies..If you think that the Insurance companies have
NOT taken control of the Water Restoration part of this Industry.."You are Crazy"...

Not only do they CONTROL the market...The control the PRICE..!!! They have instituted
policies & procedures such as "Preferred Vendor's" & "Exactimate"....Which are the PUREST
forms of COLLUSION.!!! They have done this to control their "Exposure" for Incompetent
& Dishonest Cleaners..! It is BIG MONEY..and if you are not represented properly...you
will be SQUEEZED out of the market..!

I Would venture to say that..80% of restoration could be completed CHEAPER..through
tear-out & replacement. BUT the procedures that are "REQUIRED" & DRYING EQUIPMENT
that is "SPECKED"...produces much more PROFIT for all involved. Any restorer's here
must admit that the "REQUIRE PROCEDURES" that are in place..MIMIC the procedures
required by the ASEBESTOS INDUSTRY...almost verbatim...!

For those of you that that are NOT aware..! Asbestos removal.."CAUSED" more exposure
to the public..by the attempted removal...than if it had been "LEFT ALONE"...!!!!
The pipes could have been SIMPLY been "encapsulated" with a common household GLUE..
and been safe for another 100 years...The danger was in the removal process..when the
fibers were allow to become AIRBORN..!!

So...It is NOT how the cleaning industry will be regulated..it is WHEN.. :shock:
I feel we as "cleaners" ...had better become PROACTIVE....instead of REACTIVE... :wink:

Owners Operators ..days are NUMBERED.!!!!

Soon we will become just "LABORERS"...for an UNION,INSURANCE COMPANY,or a CORPERATE
CONGLOMERATE, or perhaps worse than all a GOVERMENT REGULATED "GrEeN cLeaN" POLICY.

Isn't CoMMuNiSm GreAT....

PS This is not intended as an alarmist post..."Just open ONE EYE.." :!:
LIke my "MIA BuDDY"..Jimmy Lawdig"..AKA "dADDY"..

Thank you Harper! Like I said the standards were our industry's first attempt at trying to regulate ourselves. They provided a guideline, but unfortunately they are cause and effect statements. If you do this, this can be the result. They could be considered good or bad depending on your outlook. By following them, they keep your liability down as far as negligent lawsuits are concerned. And of course there are areas that consider OSHA, and they keep your liability down for receiving a fine.

I wonder about the loops and hurdles we'll have to jump through in years to come.

 

[joe harper]

daniel,

Sometimes I think the only thing you have a good GRASP of is ..."your DiCK".... :roll:

You are so FULL of "Kool-Aid"...marketing ...i think you are DrUnK.. :!:
I ONLY ADVERTISE IN THE YELLOW PAGES....!!! "Hell our minimum is 30cents a sft.."

We advertise SERVICE & QUALITY...The customer that RESPONDS to our ads is a
High end client..."Because that is what our ad TARGETS... :!: If you have a "sHiTTy AD"
you will attract a ShiTTy client...!! A "cookie cutter" business card SIZE ad .. Will attract
the "price shopper" you speak of.. "IN there mind" ...if you cannot afford a FULL PAGE AD
you probably don't charge as MUCH as the guy with the FULL PAGE ad... :idea:

I am posting about a TREND that has manifested its self in the RECENT economy..!
The mid to high-end cleaner is on there way out ...if adjustments are NOT made..!
I SEARCH for the REASONS.."This is NOT my 1st RoDeO..." I see a phenomenon that is occurring in my market that is UNUSUAL... :idea:

There is a DESPERATION to PRICE SHOP ....out of a real financial necessity...! People are destitute...!!! "Desperate people do desperate things" I see cleaners that have been in business for years in my area PANICKING...! They are cutting their prices by 50%..just to get work..

They are trying to save a "JOB"...Not their "BUSINESS"...They are dropping like flies.!!!
We will DOWNSIZE and RAISE our prices...... :shock: :shock: :shock: "Why"..you say.. :?:
Because with the mantra of customer RENTION..is feudal in this economic climate!!!!
Certainly ..."you must retain your BASE"..However the ATTRITION RATE...of homeowners
in fla. is tremendous...due to the FORCLOSURE rate.. :!:

What all of us will experience is a CHANGE in the process in the way the client perceives
their investment..! The "Homeowner" ..last year..that payed you $300.00 to PROTECT their investment...Will NOW be willing to pay yo $150.00 ..for the same service.. :shock: The reason being ...they have LOST all equity in their investment..and probably are in FORCLOSURE!

SO we BETTER..!!!! Be PROACTIVE in our approach to this problem and INSTITUTE a realistic
BOTTOM for our service..NATIONALLY...Or you will have VORTEX cleaning @ $4.95 a room ...
just for the "PRIVIALAGE"...of being their own Captain.."On a SinKinG ShIp".... thathurts
So every one's High-End ..client base will take a HIT.. :idea: The key will be evaluating your best clients and DOUBLE your efforts in delivering the BEST service money can BUY...!

Trying to SELL ...on superior quality & expense of our equipment ..will fall on DEAF ears...
RENTERS do NOT care about quality or "dry times"...the just want CHEAP...!
Feel free to bring this up at your next "SFS" meeting...

My concerns are NOT for me ..I am RETIRED..My concerns are for my SON entering in this
type of unprecedented market..It will be tough for HIM ..but I have the utmost CONFIDENCE
in him..."Very Proud"..!

Ps for all you young men struggling in this BAD market.."Keep your chin up"...as My son & I
work out solution to these problems...I will SHARE them with you ...FREE..!!!
I will always return you calls or PM..

 

[RIP IT]

lol...just noticed the gt"r"....


why don't ya crate an RB30 bottom end up for a brother and ship it at cost............or maybe we can get Harper to pay

25&26 heads ready to go when it gets here.............76 280z recipient

if you wouldn't mind throw some of those FullRace headers in the box too

would love too... 'cept made a promise with the wife that the next car for me comes AFTER
1. The new home we are building
2. Her new car

so might be a while



...sorry back on topic