Interview with Shawn York 9-26-07

Mikey P

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Can you tell us about the Carpet Cleaning business you had before you got into manufacturing?

I started it in 1989. My sister's boyfriend rolled into town with an old AquaCat slide-in to see what the Orem, Utah market was like. I did a ride along with him and within a month I was the proud owner of a brand new BaneClene Megaport portable machine. Six months later, while hauling a 5 gallon pail of water to feed my Megaport I decided to buy my first "real" TM. Dave Hanks sold it to me. It was a Prochem Cub. (Bridgepoint System 4) Thom Fielding built it. That eventually tuned into 7 trucks, (Mostly Prochem and HM and V prototypes) three offices, a contractor's license, and fire and water damage restoration and reconstruction. The name of the company was Power Extraction. I sold it when I started Vortex in 1997. I miss the owner operator days.



Rumor has it you talked to Power Clean first about taking over the production of the Vortex. Care to speculate where they would have taken your machine? How about HydraMaster, Butler or Prochem? Do you think any of them would have done better than Blueline?

Each of those companies had their strong points. However, I have no doubt that the Vortex has found its true home with BLUEline. What really caught my attention with BLUEline was the quality of the people in the organization. Thom and Mark have definitely created an atmosphere where people are proud to work for the company. Thom, Mark and I also had extensive conversations about what path Vortex should take and we agreed on every single point regarding manufacturing philosophy, quality and performance before we ever signed the deal. BLUEline is not a typical manufacturing firm in that they don't mind spending money when it?s appropriate. I like BLUEline's style and I like the way Mark and Thom run the company. Every member of the BLUEline/Vortex team is young, smart, aggressive, committed and ready to sleigh any dragon that comes their way. They are unlike any manufacturer I have ever dealt with on these points. I believe that BLUEline Equipment Company is the new industry leader because of the strength of the team. And despite Thom's and my obvious redneck/city-slicker differences he's turned out to be a pretty decent guy.


Are you disappointed or shocked that an Aero Tech has not had a HX blow up yet?

About a year ago I was asked a similar question by an "unnamed individual". He also asked the question in an assumptive way as though he was sure that I had already made the statement. I responded by telling him that I've never said such a thing and I have no idea if it will blow up or not. What I tell potential customers is far worse. My objection to using conventional direct exhaust gas technology on a PTO cleaning machine is three-fold; 1. It has to do with the amount of the heat and what happens to that heat when the machine malfunctions. 2. The potential of exposing the operator to diesel exhaust poisoning. And 3. Vortex technology is less likely to experience freezing issues.
Both the Vortex and the AT utilize thermo couplers, digital thermostatic temperature controllers, vacuum actuated exhaust diverters, 12v vacuum solenoids, and a vacuum pod in their heating systems. Each of these components is prone to failure or jamming. With conventional direct exhaust technology, the failure or jamming of one or a combination of these components could potentially increase the water temperatures equal to that of the exhaust gas if the wand is set down. (Over 450 degrees.) You can simulate this on an Aero Tech yourself if you?re crazy enough and are willing to risk your skin to try it: Set the digital temp controller at its highest setting to simulate a jammed diverter. I think it goes up to 500 degrees. (This also simulates a bad vacuum pod and a failed thermo-coupler in some cases.) Run the machine up to full RPM and set up a wand with solution hose and vacuum hose and then simulate a vacuum load. Wait 15 minutes then pull the wand trigger and see what kind of water temps you get. I have no idea what kind of temps it can produce but I would not be surprised at if it had an instant burst of 400 to 450 degrees ATM. Some machines end up in the hands of an un-trained operator who has no idea how the machine works. 450 degree water + inexperience + old solution hoses spells liability. These diesel engines produce A LOT of BTU?s . Collecting that heat is easy. What to do with the heat when something goes wrong is a whole different story. Conventional exhaust gas technology was the first way I tried to heat water on the second V I ever built. I abandoned it for two reasons; 1. It scared the hell out of me because it got so hot so fast and blew steam from hoses. And 2. I could not get the exhaust system (which was re-routed up through the floor) gaskets to match up close enough to seal perfectly. I could smell the diesel inside the body. Automotive exhaust systems are not designed for critical environments such as small work spaces where chemicals, machinery and tools are stored or mounted.
On a Vortex, when any of the above mentioned components malfunction (and if the malfunction causes a rise in temperature) a low pressure (150 psi) relief valve opens and evacuates the Xentherm fluid. That's it. With Xentherm technology the machine is incapable of producing water temperatures much above 320 degrees no matter which component or combination of components fail or jam. Try the above mentioned test on a Vortex and see how hot the (instant burst temperature) water gets. Also, Nissan Diesel engineers have inspected and approved the Xentherm technology. I still have not heard if Nissan Diesel has approved re-routing the vehicle exhaust system up inside the body. I also wonder what OSHA would say about it. Vortex technology keeps the exhaust system under the truck where it belongs ~ away from the operator.
Regarding potential freezing issues; With a Vortex, you can park outside between jobs for at least 5 hours in 20 degree weather before you should be concerned. I would never do that with direct-exhaust technology. Automotive exhaust systems MUST dump into the open environment which makes them more vulnerable to freezing. Conventional HX technology is just a way to get around the right way to do it.
If Kevin Miller can find a way to make conventional direct exhaust heat exchange technology safe from dangerously high water temperatures and prevent the possibility of exhaust gas from ever entering the work space 100% (especially from leaky gaskets) then you will see this technology on a Vortex and it will replace the current Xentherm technology. We will always offer the best technology known and available. I will not be surprised at all if Kevin can pull that off someday. I know he's been working on it. It just hasn't been done yet.



What would he do if glides were unavailable?


I cleaned with a Vortex for several years without glides. I just couldn't do forward strokes. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't dream of cleaning my own bedroom today without using glides. Especially with the bigger blowers we now use. That would be insane. Glides and the Vortex are two of the most significant improvements in our industry in the last couple of decades. However, I believe that there is a wand design coming soon that will make the HM patent obsolete without infringement. That's what I'm looking forward to.



Would the Vortex Bulletin Board still be active today if you hadn't banned Mikey?

Most likely it would not. I had no idea when I started that board what time it (and Mikey) would consume. You're like a bunch of gossiping old grandma's.



What Bulletin Board poster would you most like to see in a Vortex?


Definitely Martin Sutley. Pork-Boy is the cheapest carpet cleaner I've even known or heard of in my life. It's all I can do to keep from pig-slapping him. If we can get Marty in a V it would prove once and for all that ANYONE regardless of cheapness can increase their profits with The World's Most Powerful Cleaning Machine. I would also like to see Dave Rampage in a Vortex again someday.



Why has it taken until now to deal with the noise of the Vortex and why did Aero Tech get it done first?

Vortex successfully addressed the noise issues 18 months ago. The 7000 HAT is over a 9db improvement (at the blower casing) from any previous models. If indeed it's true that the competition snuck one past us in the noise department I can assure you that it won't stay that way for long. And until some numbers are published we really don't know for sure. See answer below for more details.



Will any manufacturer of truck mounts design a machine to use 2.5" hose and supply it with the equipment?


BLUEline is currently supplying all Vortexes with triple 2.5" vacuum ports. Shortly, Vortexes will come standard with two 50" lengths of 2.5" hose as well.



Whom would you like to punch in the face more, Smacky or Steve G?

Smacky.



Did anything good come out of FMI?

FMI currently works very closely with Kevin Miller, Thom and Mark at BLUEline. FMI's expertise is in specialized modifications to Japanese diesel trucks and engines. They are also technical resource to UD and ISUZU engineers because of their extensive experience in highly specialized applications and customization. Erv Reichert is a genius. FMI has been a huge help over the past year and I believe they will continue in that role. Jay Wilt at FMI has become a very close friend and we still communicate regularly.



Why did Aero Tech (and you) continue to build square fresh tanks when you knew a huge percentage of them failed?

Excellent question. The problem, unbeknownst to me at the time was not in the fact that the tanks were square. Rather it was the method in which the tanks were welded. This is one of the reasons why the Vortex has seen so many improvements since the BLUEline acquisition. BLUEline has a significant amount of experience on how to build tanks in an environment where drivers often take speed bumps at 30 MPH. Not one tank produced by BLUEline has failed to date. BLUEline tanks use a specific method of welding ( Double hemmed seam weldment) that insures structural integrity. There is no need to go to a round FW tank if you know how to weld a square tank for a rougher environment. Round tanks take up more space. That's one example of dozens of significant changes BLUEline has already made.



When you were hurting for cash, how low would you go to make a sale?


I would never have involved any animals. Seriously though, I may give off the wrong impression sometimes on the boards regarding this subject. I?m actually a very low-pressure person. I am not much of a salesman at all. Ask anyone who has ever bought a Vortex if they think I used any pressure or tried to "close the sale". I'm not a "closer". Really good salesmen are "closers" and are able to convince people to do things they would not normally do if left to their own devices. Personally, I get my kicks from seeing people come to their own conclusion and get excited about making the decision on their own. More often than not, prospects ask me what they need to do to get their sale in the system. Selling is not my gig. I like being the guy who gets the phone to ring, not close the sale.



If you could steal any AT employees to come and work for BL, whom would you love to have?

I would take them all if I could. They're all pretty good at what they do. I would double the salary of a few of them and make them sweep the floor fulltime in Thom's office however. I'm actually kidding. I'm really glad that Aero Tech and I are finally getting along and that we can even joke about it a little now.



I have wanted a "Big Truck" for the last two years and am a few months away from buying a new one. I attended Connections last week and I have to say the new Aero Tech was more appealing to me. Not only is it cheaper but it?s quieter too. The somewhat local service I can get if I were to go with your machine is appealing but I need to use the machine at night so the noise really is the number one issue for me. Can I order a Vortex with the same blower that I heard on the AT? I heard the blower on the AT and it did sound quieter.

Thom and I have discussed this at length. Here was Thom?s response (and a perfect display of why I believe that BLUEline Equipment Company really is the new industry leader) Thom said, If indeed that blower in the Aero is quieter than a HAT then we better damn well find a way to get the Vortex even quieter or be prepared to eat a crow's butt and use the same Sutorbilt blower they're using. Then he said, It's about being the best and providing our customers with the best performance we possibly can. If the only way to get the best performance is by eating crow's butt then we eat crow's butt. Hell, virtually everything on the competition's machine is copied from the Vortex anyway. Whatever it takes to be the best.

Having said all that, until somebody puts a decibel meter on the blower casing of that blower in the Aero while it is running at EXACTLY 2000 RPM, I am not fully convinced that it IS quieter. I have been working with both Universal and Stoddard engineers for the last eight years. I am very well-versed on the noise issues of the Vortex. Universal and Stoddard engineers both agreed that the primary obstacle (aside from the noise emitted from the blower casing) in quieting the Vortex down was the body (box) of the truck. The silencer was actually secondary to the box. The material and shape of the box AMPLIFIES the noise coming from the blower casing. The quietest Vortexes I have ever heard have carpeted walls and floors. The Aero truck at Connections had carpeted floors and walls and the Vortex did not. This has had as much as a 6db improvement in some cases. Also, if you take two identical Vortexes and ran then side by side, but ran the diesel engine 70 RPM slower on one of them, you would be astounded at how commensurate the noise with the blower speed is. It's a HUGE difference. The DB emitted from the casing of a 7000 HAT has been published in an earlier post. I would appreciate somebody posting the numbers from the Sutorbilt blower on the Aero. I also understand that it is not a high-performance blower and that it requires greasing maintenance because it does not have oil on both ends. I?m with Thom. Let?s find out the actual numbers, details and advantages and then do whatever it takes to be able to offer the best performance/reliability/value to our customers in EVERY category. I've always used the best components available on the planet on the Vortex regardless of cost. BLUEline has the same philosophy. In short, we are addressing this issue.



Is it true that you didn't know what a 401K was when you suggested to Billy Lewis to dump his to buy a Vortex?


Billy Lewis informed me that he had a 401k and that he was considering using it to start his business. I agreed with him. I would have done exactly the same thing myself under his circumstances and I have done so on more than one occasion in my life. I like to "double down". It has served me well. (I never gamble though.) Everybody has different levels of comfort when it comes to risks that one is willing to take. Personally, if I have any money left over after paying the bills I put it into whatever investment I feel is going to bring me the greatest reward vs. the risk I'm willing to assume. I know what the chances are of a reasonably intelligent individual making a good living with a Vortex. I don't see a 401k being anywhere near as effective in providing a comfortable retirement as I do the operation and eventual sale of a successful cleaning company using a Vortex. I took a ton of heat on the 401k issue but I still see it the same way. I would give it up for a V (under certain circumstances) if that was the only way I could get one. I'm no financial adviser. I make that clear. Having said that; If anyone else has a 401k I'm very interested in talking to you.





Would you do it all over again?

Absolutely. And it's not over yet. I believe the day will come where MOST cleaning machines built will be a Vortex or be based on original Vortex technology. (cab-forward, diesel PTO machines that heat water from engine exhaust) Virtually every company I know of (and I know 99% of them) who has purchased a Vortex has been able to increase their profits and assign that success directly to their ownership of a V. I do not believe it makes sense to own anything other than a Vortex (except under a few circumstances) after talking to Vortex owners for a decade now. The V is catching on faster and faster. More and more people are becoming aware of the advantages every day.





First it was Dave Rampage and now it's Wizard. All of your poster boys are jumping ship to Aero Tech. How long until Mikey bails?

There are over 350 Vortexes on the road now. I know of only 11 Vortex owners who have bought an Aero. (It could be as high as 14) All but two of them I know of owned the older model 777 Vortexes. One of those Aero guys (Paul S.) is now coming back to a Vortex after owning both a 6008 vortex and an Aero for well over a year. Comparing an older Vortex 777 to a brand new Aero is like comparing a 1998 Porsche Boxster to a 2007 Porsche Cayman. (The Vortex is a 2007 Porsche 911 in case you were wondering) I would have thought that Aero could take more V owners than they have in 3 years time, honestly. Vortex is a solid name and it will always be The World's Most Powerful Cleaning Machine. We outsold the competition by 400% last month and we are typically 200% to 300% higher in sales every month.



What did he do before he invented cleaning equipment?


I was working on an electronic device that had to do with self-subliminal programming just prior to the Vortex. I abandoned that project in 2000 and I will be filing a provisional patent on it again in 2008.



How do you feel now when you stroll the isles at Connections and you see all the other TM manufacturers trying to keep up with the Vortex?

I did walk the floors and look at most of the other machines with my two sons. It was fun to listen to them point out the same thing. Meeting people who are not carpet cleaners and who don't live in Utah but have heard of the Vortex is also really cool. Listening to stories from new V owners from the job-site of their first job is my all time favorite Vortex activity. Running a Vortex on a job you're familiar with on your own turf will change a man forever. A good demo on your own turf is an experience every cleaner should have. Disbelief is the most common reaction. It really does clean that much better and faster. Those stories are a blast to listen to.



Are there still plans to build a V Slide In?

The Vortex 4000si has been in the works since a week before BLUEline and I signed the acquisition deal. This is a very exciting project for all of us. While all of our competitors have been scrambling to build bigger and bigger machines and blowers we've been back on the old playground building a VERY high-end, small #4 blower slide-in machine. I can't say any more than that but I can assure you that it will create quite a ruckus when it?s launched. It will be priced similar to most #5 slide-in machines on the market and it's 100% pure Vortex style and performance. It?s definitely the "Vortex" of slide-in machines. There are lots of other exciting things in the works that are top-secret.



What exactly happened with Dave Rampage? One day he is the Vortex man of the year and the next he is bashing you hard on ICS.


Honestly, I really don't know what happened with Dave Rampage. I wish I did understand it. I know we had a couple of arguments on the phone about dumb stuff. (dumb misunderstandings) It was a little heated but I didn't think it was the kind of stuff that would permanently ruin a friendship of several years. There was a time when I wished the friendship still existed. I miss those sweatpants.



What other changes does he think our industry needs to make (outside of TM design)


I would like to see an increased awareness for all Vortex owners (all high powered machines really) to increase your jet sizing and increase your water flow. It really is amazing when you clean on a V with a high-flow wand. You will be providing an even higher quality service to your customers if you do this. This will position legit companies even further away from the hacks. You have a long ways to go before it's too much water for the size of your blower to recover. I believe that the Vortex has spawned a new way of cleaning. It used to be that we were trying to "steam" clean the carpets with a fine mist spray of super hot water. What the "high-flow" Vortex owners are doing is "High Speed, Fast Dry, Carpet Washing". Every Vortex owner I have recommended this to has called me back and was just blown away at how much more thorough and effective they were able to clean. Ron Lippold was the first V owner I know of to clean with a 24 flow wand. He went from a 6 flow to a 12 flow to an 18 flow and then to a 24 flow wand. Each time he increased the size he called and reported how blown away he was. This goes to prove that you really can clean more effectively with 2 gallons of 200 degree water than you can with one gallon of 300 degree water. There is more energy contained in 2 gallons of 200 degree water than there is in one gallon of 300 degree water. As long as your blower has the power to get all that water back out you should take advantage of all the energy your machine can provide. I had a local V owner who owed me a favor clean my own carpets yesterday. I made him change his jet sizes out before he cleaned. I believe you can do a better job with high flow. Increasing your water flow is as dramatic a difference in overall efficiency as going from a 2" vacuum hose to a 2.5" vacuum hose. It may even be as dramatic a difference in some cases as going from a 1.5" vacuum hose to a 2.5" vacuum hose. I can?t stress enough how much more you can get out of your Vortex (or any high powered machine) and how much more value you can provide your customers by just increasing your wand jet sizing.



Why don't most manufacturers make their own wands?


I really don't know for sure. I can only guess that it has to do with profitability. It seems to be an item that manufacturers cannot get a good profit margin on. Outsourcing to a company who produces in larger quantities may be the only way a manufacturer can afford to offer it. Thom would be one who could answer this question best.



Shawn...tight jeans up the crack of your ass has become somewhat of a trademark of yours...thong or commando?

Thanks for noticing Chuck. I thought I saw you checking out my stuff at Connections but I wasn't sure. This was definitely a hot topic of conversation in the booth. I took as many questions as I could during the show but hopefully I can create some more clarity here; I'm definitely a commando man. I made this choice in September 1985 while trekking through the jungles near Tibas, Costa Rica and I've never looked back. I would highly recommend going commando to anyone. It's more of a lifestyle really. I feel it's important to treat the boys with the utmost respect in every situation I encounter. Unconditional freedom and the right to proudly display one's religious heritage is one way I show them the respect they deserve. In turn, they've demonstrated an incredible loyalty and commitment to me and to doing their job with the most impeccable of work ethic. They are rightfully proud of their accomplishments and I have to say, they're probably the best in the biz and I?m pretty proud of them too. We have a very deep mutual respect for each other. It's a fair arrangement for all three of us, and I hope it continues for many years. Regarding my ass crack; I wear regular ole' Levi 501's like most of the rest of the free world does. I just have a dead sexy ass that draws attention no matter what jeans I wear. Ask your wives. They were all talking about it at Connections.



Is it true that you make as much money off AT's as you do on Vortexes? Do you know how many machines each company is selling?

No. that is not correct. The amount of money for both trucks is close, but a very small percentage is from AT trucks.



How has the dealer network helped out? How much have the dealers had to do with the increase in sales?

It's a whole different ball-game with dealers. Although we're not fully up to speed yet with training across the board quite yet it's become very obvious that cleaners are much more comfortable buying from a company who provides local service and warranty. It seems we have at least a dozen deals in the works with dealers at any given time over the last couple of months. Local relationships are obviously very important.



What's the deal with Adam Hale? How will he fit in?


I will let BLUEline and Adam announce specifically what Adam will be doing for Vortex but I will say this much; I cannot think of a more straight-forward "does what he says: kind of guy than Adam Hale. He is a knowledgeable Vortex owner and he knows this industry well. I am certainly excited about what he is bringing to the table. Adam has a significant amount of hands-on expertise with a Vortex, but he also brings with him an uncommon integrity, work ethic and some very creative ideas for the future. Adam and his family are class-act and I'm sure glad he's on-board and part of the team.



What advice could you give a guy considering a used 777? Can one of the wastes tanks be removed on a 777?

I've seen lots of guys buy Venturi owned 777 models, gut them and restore them and then turn a 10k profit. They are worth every penny that Venturi is asking for them but they do need a little more TLC than the owner operated 777 models. 777 Vortexes have a reputation of being solid workhorses. I saw a 1999 go for $48k a few months ago and I think it was worth every penny. It sold for $54K brand new eight years ago. It had a lot of life left in it. You can take out the second waste tank. You just have to re-plumb the vacuum system accordingly.



What exactly is your role with BLUEline and what are you doing specifically with Vortex?

I have moved out of the sales and technical support role very recently. Shortly I will be doing primarily consulting, advertising and marketing for the Vortex project. I really enjoy being the guy that gets the phone to ring. I have not worked much at all in the last 4 months however. My sons moved in with me full time 6 months ago and I've been focused on them lately. The boys haven't lived with me for ten years. I'm like Mr. Mom now. They are 15 and 17 years old.
 
G

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What is the proper wine to serve with crow's butt?

I'd think a flavorful white, something on the sweeter side...say a VERY late harvest Chardonnay. Or, would a light red be better, as I'd guess that crow isn't the most subtle of flavors...like say a Sangiovese?
 

Mikey P

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What wine did you and I share that night you kissed my butt to get back on the board after I banned you?


I believe it was Two Buck Chuck's Pucker Up Red Table whine.
 

Bob Foster

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Shawn, can you share with us an ideas on changing the configuration of the box on the typical V and also what chassis selections V intends on offering in the near future?
 

truckmount girl

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Shawn,

Welcome and thanks for being here.

What was the most difficult part of starting Vortex back in the day? Did you get financial backing or did you self-finance? How long was it before Vortex and/or you personally saw a profit?

Take care,
Lisa
 

Mikey P

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OK every one please excuse Shawn's delay but he spent all day on the key board getting those answers to me just in time so he needed to take a ride in his Hummer to clear his mind.


Shaws and I have a well documented up and down relationship. We have both wanted to ring each other's necks at times but I can happily say that I consider Yappy to be a close friend and one I look forward to talking to on a weekly basis.


With that being said, please respect my guess and treat him as if he were sitting in your living room.

My first question is;

What part did the Bulletin Boards play in the success of the Vortex?
 

Mikey P

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Those 140 trucks brings up my second question...

Would you and your machine have survived if not for Venturi?


And how many truck mounts did you make before they placed that huge order?
 

truckmount girl

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Wow, that 140 truck order must have been exciting...and scary too. Did you have any fears you wouldn't have the capital to build the machines? Or did you take a large portion of the payment upfront or finance the build some other way?

Take care,
Lisa
 

vincent

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We spoke about a year ago concerning the Vortex slidein. You told me that there were going to be 30 beta units and there were 3 left at the time of our conversation at $29k per.

Tell us all how the testing is going and are the beta testers going to get a new & improved version when the final unit is built?
 

Greenie

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Just a comment at this time. The best thing to happen to the Vortex is the distributor network. The worst thing to happen is the distributor network.

Hopefully everyone selling and servicing the machines is as open minded as Shawn.

I see a lot of old school myopic thinking out there behind the counter.

Like selling truckmounts with portable wands jetted with 04 flow.
 

Mikey P

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On the subject of flow..

What are wands are being sold with Vs these day and how are they jetted.


If you say 06 the interview is officially over.
 

Greenie

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Since the door has been opened on the new 4000si, tell me why I would pay thousands more than a ThermalWave II for a #4 blower?

Could it support dual wand? heat? vacuum?
 

Mikey P

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Getting back to those 777's..

What modifications did Venturi do to them?
Do any of those changes make sense for the average owner-op to keep using?
 

vincent

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I understand there are costs involved, but why charge a beta tester, when in fact the unit they are using will not be the final product? $30k is kinda much for a prototype that may never see production. Then the tester has to get a van, probably tanks, reels and so forth.

It seems Vortex would pay the tester instead of the tester paying Vortex.
 

Greenie

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Well at least we can see the bionic woman, cause 06 flow just cost Thom a steak dinner and drinks before he will hear the end of it from me.

I might need a new watch too.
 

Mikey P

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Shortly, all V wands will be jetted at 12 or higher right out the door. I am embarrassed to say that they are currently being delivered with normal aspiration currently.


How do you sleep at night...
 

vincent

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No Mike, I have perfect hearing. I'm just asking questions, you're afraid too.

Besides, these are interesting questions we would like to hear answers to.
 

Greenie

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Early adopters know the price of new technology.

If you are not an early adopter, you are the mainstream.
 

Mikey P

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That really blows me away Shawn..

After all the conversations you, Ron Lippold, Greenie and all the other High Flowers have had..




"The Worlds Most Powerful Patio Misting Machine"
 

Greenie

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Doesn't blow me away, the average Dealer is....average...with average customers.

Rome was not built in a day.
 

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