Is this wand OK?

[gimmeagig]

Hi guys,
I'm continuing here from a different thread because something came up there that makes me wonder if the wand I'm using is OK.
It came with the truck I bought from DA Burns. Which is a 1999 Hydramaster CDS 3.8. No Salsa pack on the heat exchanger but I put in a different thermostat so the truck puts out 215 degrees at the machine.
So I had a wick back problem (I might not have gotten the pad dry enough) and someone suggested that my wand might be partly to blame. This is the only wand I have ever used so I have nothing to compare it to.
I bought a glide from Greenie ( slots and holes) and the jets have been replaced is says 1/4W 8003 on them.The tube is 1 1/2"
The glide is of course very nice but if it interferes with getting the carpet dry enough I'm willing to give it up.
I was told that considering the limitations of my machine a 2" wand might be too much and that there is not enough heat produced for 4 jets.
So here are pictures of the wand head and I'd like to know if it is a POS or if it is good enough for my setup.
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii73 ... and003.jpg
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii73 ... and002.jpg
I know all about bass guitars and how to modify and play them but Wands ... not so much!
Can you enlighten me?
I just took the glide off for a job I have tomorrow to see if I can get better results without it.

 

[Mikey P]

a two inch tubed wand with your 2 inch vac hose directly connected to it will get you better dry times.


If you're on a budget look at Cobb's selection.

if you got money to blow out your ass get a Prochem Titanium.

 

[gimmeagig]

Cobb's selection? What is that?

 

[truckmount girl]

The wand you have is made by PMF, it is their 422 model. It is one of the family of 12", 2 jet, "classic" head wands of which most wand manufacturers make at least one model. It's not a terrible wand, but not great either, there are plenty better, but expect to pay for a good wand.

I would seriously consider moving up to a 2" tube when you can to get better performance. Also inspect all of your vac hoses and filters for clogs/blockages/cracks/seal leaks, etc.

The glide should actually help your performance a bit.

Take care,
Lisa

 

[Mikey P]

Cobb's selection? What is that?

Cobb carpet supply has a banner here

 

[ascrubabove]

Roxy the wand may not have been the problem, but compaired to what most of use, it is a POS cheepy wand. Leave the glide on it helps your dry times, plus if your not used to cleaning without it you could hurt yourself!

 

[gimmeagig]

I'm a little confused, With the glide on the opening is essentially smaller and the angle of the wand has to be so that the holes are flat on the carpet. The holes are narrower than the opening of the wand would be without the glide.How does that improve drying times?
What am I missing?

 

[gimmeagig]

What would be a better wand that still is right for my machine and not horribly expensive?

 

[Mikey P]

http://ccs5.com/zen/index.php?main_page ... ts_id=1327


Nice price, just needs a glide

 

[John Watson]

Roxey, I am not saying you do and I am not saying you don't, But, as far as to explain this "I'm a little confused, With the glide on the opening is essentially smaller and the angle of the wand has to be so that the holes are flat on the carpet. The holes are narrower than the opening of the wand would be without the glide.How does that improve drying times?
What am I missing?"

Hope this unconfuses you,
Its called volocity and the ventourie affect. , If you had a white powderry substance on a mirror and you wanted to snort it. Would you use a big straw or a smaller one?? It would take more to suck it up with the bigger straw. using the smaller one it suckes up easier with less suction.

After sucking the glide should work easier and leave the carpet drier, don't cha think???

Having fun,, John

 

[ascrubabove]

The holes in the glide consintrates the suction right on the carpet, also the round glide gives you more up and down on the handle of the wand while keeping the holes on the carpet plus the added ease of pushing and pulling. The small gaps on the side of the glide alow air to wisk away the water you pulled out of the carpet, keeping the wand and hose moving with air keeps the water moving to your waste tank.

 

[gimmeagig]

Roxey, I am not saying you do and I am not saying you don't, But, as far as to explain this "I'm a little confused, With the glide on the opening is essentially smaller and the angle of the wand has to be so that the holes are flat on the carpet. The holes are narrower than the opening of the wand would be without the glide.How does that improve drying times?
What am I missing?"


Hope this unconfuses you,
Its called volocity and the ventourie affect. , If you had a white powderry substance on a mirror and you wanted to snort it. Would you use a big straw or a smaller one?? It would take more to suck it up with the bigger straw. using the smaller one it suckes up easier with less suction.

After sucking the glide should work easier and leave the carpet drier, don't cha think???

Having fun,, John

Hi John,
So I got that part and I'm sticking the glide back on.
I'm now partially unconfused.
But someone here suggested I should get a 2" tubed wand but if I follow that "small straw line of thinking" wouldn't my 1 1/2" wand be acting like a "small straw" when connected to the 2" vacuum hose and actually have better suction ?

 

[Mikey P]

Does not work that way.


I'll lets someone who profits off of glide sales spend the hour explaining it to you.

 

[gimmeagig]

Does not work that way.


I'll lets someone who profits off of glide sales spend the hour explaining it to you.

So you are not against glides because you recommended a glide with the wand from Cobb you suggested.
The explanation that John gave me ( whether or not he sells the things, I know him and trust him)makes sense to me, so for now at least I stuck the glide back on.
Doesn't mean I'm totally clear on it or sold on it one way or the other.
One day when I have made a little more money I'll probably get a better wand 2 or 4 jet I'm not clear on that one yet either.
I hope you guys will keep posting responses because I'm eager to hear your opinions and suggestions.

 

[truckmount girl]

The principle of the narrowing applies at the terminal opening.

That's why 1.5" hose all the way would cut your performance, but a glide will enhance it.

Also: If you hook your unglided wand up to your running TM and hold the wand up off the carpet....let's say for ease of numbers and sake of argument, you are moving 250CFM and generating 12" of lift through the wand opening. Great, right? Now, you put that same unglided wand down onto the pre-sprayed plush carpet and the lift generated by your blower, pulls the wand down onto the carpet and causes a massive loss of airflow. the CFM goes down to a (theoretical) 50 and the lift goes up to a (theoretical) 15 and your relief valve is screaming.

Now - hook the same wand up to the same running TM with a glide installed and raised up off the carpet. You will not get as high a CFM as the unglided wand off the carpet because of the restriction, let's say you are now moving 175CFM and your lift is 13. So you assume (correctly) the glide is now hindering your performance. HOWEVER now place the glided wand on the pre-sprayed plush carpet. Due to the round shape and larger diameter, the wand can't penetrate enough to block off airflow. Also the Teflon keeps the wand moving easier across the top of the carpet instead of digging in and blocking airflow. Their is also the principles of slot velocity and the Bernoulli's principle, accelerating the air making it through the glide. Because the glide does not lock down, airflow is not as restricted as it is with an unglided wand....so instead of moving 50CFM, the glided wand is now moving 100-125....and the lift is holding between 14-15, which is easier on the components without as much airflow being lost through your relief system.

The smaller the machine (less available lift) the more difference narrowing the terminal nozzle makes. If you run a portable or a small TM with a #3 blower, a glide will make more difference to dry times than if you run a large TM with a #5 or 6 blower (more available lift). In a large blower, your airflow is already maxed out by the wand tube, vac hose, etc. and further narrowing won't make much difference at all in dry times....HOWEVER it will make a huge difference in ergonomics, because when a #6 blower causes a good, high flow wand to lock down on the carpet, it aint easy to pry it off and push it forward. This causes some guys to use tricks to break suction, in order to move the wand.....tricks which cause air loss and unven extraction.

What you do lose with a glide is Agitation. With a smooth, polished bar of Teflon, you will not get the agitation which can help loosen soil that metal wand lips give you. So you must either make up for that with higher water volume, pressure, heat or mechanical agitation.

And that, my friend, is how and why glides work.

Take care,
Lisa

 

[TimP]

A cds is fine for a 2" wand.

You want the restriction to be where the carpet is not before. That's why you want a 2" wand.

Glides mainly help by allowing you to push the wand under high suction. They don't hurt dry times. You can turn up your machine and still push the wand, it doesn't lock down and airflow continues at the wand and not the relief valve.

With the wand you're using the problem you're having is the jets. If you angled them it would help but the place they are makes for too steep of an angle. You have to lower the pressure a lot and the flow of water to keep from wetting the backing. Also never ever buy brass jets for a wand. They wear out too fast for wand use. And when they wear out they don't clean as well.


The only problem I have with glides is that they don't scrub well. That's why I've been using my RX-20. However the RV-360i is supposed to be good. I'd look into them if you wanted to offer the best cleaning. Without having to lug around a 100 lb 175rpm floor machine, to get your agitation that glides lack.

 

[John Watson]

Roxey, My chopska off to you my friend, your question on which wand has brought out the best answer and responses that totaly explain why the glide works.. Miss Lisa splains it better than anyone I have ever heard before. The only thing I can add is that with updated pre-cleaning solutions, higher heat, more flushing action, we don't need except on the rat nasties alot of extra aggitation. We are still using the cleaning pie but some slices are a bit different sized.

Yes the glide helps 1 1/2 systems, if thats all you got.. but having it 2" all the way including the plumbing to the blower and out of the blower works way more better.. Before I got my 2" greenhorn wand I pimped out my 1 3/4 ProChem Quade with Glide, easy touch valve, larger jets extenders and drip stoppers. What a difference that made, I was completly blown away when I got My Christmas present(a little early) Greenhorne a few years ago.

Roxey Call me 360-854-0222 I will make you a deal on my old PC Quad and an upholstery tool that will tide you over till you can afford more..

 

[Doug Cox]

Heres a thought, why not just try to help the dude learn how to clean carpet before telling to go out and buy a wand that is going to be more cumbersome than what he already has. I had a HM CDS and the same wand that he currently has with a glide and it performed like shit which explains his problems. I suggested a wand that works well for me and would be easy for him to learn on. We all know most of you guys think the Hydra Hoe is a POS, but I think if he switches to a 2" wand with a glide nothing will improve.

 

[Jim Bethel]

Heres a thought, why not just try to help the dude learn how to clean carpet before telling to go out and buy a wand that is going to be more cumbersome than what he already has.

Doug, meet Roxy.

Roxy, meet Doug.

It sounds like Doug just volunteered himself to be your cleaning coach - he even had the same machine and wand

 

[Dolly Llama]

believe it or not, the amount of pre-spray used has as much to do with dry times as anything.
PSI, flow rate and wand technique are the other big factors

the wand and glide are actually pretty low on the scale
The exception are some low loop pile carpets where wand "lock down" is common .
That's less common on cut piles due to the nature of construction


a glide makes life easier..THAT is their greatest virtue ..and many of the sOOper dOOper wands are ball busters without a glide..that's why we use them

I get a kick out of the dudes that swear by the Greenhorn stair tool as one of the greatest cleaning tools they've ever owned .
(BTW, I agree it's good cleaning tool)
But those same peeps will dog the ubiquitous 2 jet wand as a poor cleaning POS.
Maybe they haven't looked real good...cause the jet/head design is nearly the same..... :roll:


If you're using a 1.5" whip hose, get rid of it.
Go 2" all the way...save the whip hose for your Upl tool

the easiest, surest way to reduce dry times is to add air movement .
airmovers, Airpaths, or even cheap Patton fans will make the greatest difference in dry times


Lastly, don't believe the dry time claims you hear on the boards .
Most that claim 1 hour dry are FOS...what they're calling "dry"..ain't..it's still damp in reality .
they're flat out lying or don't know what "dry" means

A few top tier outfits may be getting close to that dry time...but they're using airmovers of some type to get there



..L.T.A.

 

[truckmount girl]

I wasn't even going to get into the angle of the jets, baby steps, but yes, jet angle makes a big difference in wand performance as well, with or without glides. The wand you are currently using has poor jet angle and the jets can't be adjusted to correct it.

Look for wands who's jets point toward the lips of the wand instead of straight down at the carpet.

Take care,
Lisa

 

[gimmeagig]

Heres a thought, why not just try to help the dude learn how to clean carpet before telling to go out and buy a wand that is going to be more cumbersome than what he already has. I had a HM CDS and the same wand that he currently has with a glide and it performed like shit which explains his problems. I suggested a wand that works well for me and would be easy for him to learn on. We all know most of you guys think the Hydra Hoe is a POS, but I think if he switches to a 2" wand with a glide nothing will improve.

Hi John, Doug and I know each other already. I really appreciate all you guys a whole lot and without the help I consistently get from you I'm be terrified going out there as a carpet cleaner. As it is I'm just a bit on the edge on jobs. And concerned whether everything is working like it should(will my machine start, will anything blow up on me :shock: , how's the vacuum,how's the pressure, how about the GPH mixture ,did I over look this....or that.... Sort of like it was when I first started playing gigs as a bass player.This is just a new type of gig for me and I'm sure I'll build my confidence and hopefully also my skills along the way.

I'm not doing a lot of jobs yet because I'm still getting the word around that I'm in business and probably also because of the time of the year. But I did a job yesterday where I followed Bryan O'Halek's wand technique using my wand with the glide back on..Seems like I got very good results.The customer was happy so was I. After jobs I always clean out my waste tank because I like to see what I pulled out and even though this particular carpet didn't seem super dirty, I still ended up with about 15 gal of dark soup( there were pets in the house) and my inline filter had quite a bit of sandy sediment in it. ( even though I thoroughly pre vacuumed with my Windsor Sensor vac). The "soup " still had a little foam on it so I'm thinking I had the mixture right too. The flow meter is always a little touchy and it seems like it's easy to dial in too much or too little.
By the way, when I was done with that job I placed the little styrofoam pads under a sofa and had to kneel down to do it. My khaki pants that I wear on jobs did not have a wet stain on the knees afterward. So I think I got it dry enough and I'm hoping wick back isn't going to be an issue. I'll call the customer in three days to make sure everything OK because this time I quoted it right and I will absolutely go back if there's a problem. I'm learning
Anyway, Bryan O'Haley just send me a message saying that the truck I bought from him should have had a Hydrahoe in it and he doesn't know why mine didn't. So if a big company like DA Burns which could probably afford anything uses it, it can't be a bad tool right?
So the fact that it is only a single jet might not mean that it is an inferior wand. So I'm considering it if I can get one for a good price.I guess it's a 2" wand right? I probably will stay away from 4 jet wands because for now I'll try to keep it simple.But I understand now that 2" will improve my drying capacity.

 

[The Magician]

Block of the vaccum, its probably set at 12 hg. Increase it to 14 and use 2" hose with adapter to your 1 1/2 wand. No cost and it will help drying, Use air movers like Larry suggested. I cleaned that way for years till I listened to Mikey and purchased a T. wand. Do you use drying strokes and correct wanding.?

 

[gimmeagig]

Block of the vaccum, its probably set at 12 hg. Increase it to 14 and use 2" hose with adapter to your 1 1/2 wand. No cost and it will help drying, Use air movers like Larry suggested. I cleaned that way for years till I listened to Mikey and purchased a T. wand. Do you use drying strokes and correct wanding.?

I should have been more clear, sorry. I do have 2" vacuum lines I just have a 6 ft leader hose connected to the wand. The Machine is a CDS 4.8 made in 1999. That was the bigger one of the two they were making.Before I shut off the machine I always spray in the lube for the blower and the HG reads 13 at that point .My machine runs at about 1900 rpm. I've been wondering if that is a little too low and if I should raise the RPMs on the machine or on the truck engine then I might be getting up to 14 hg, right? (Doug, are you there? Can you help me with that?)
I do have 4 Mytee Airmovers I clean a room and before I move to the next one I stick one or sometimes two of them in there depending on size.
As far a as drying strokes goes I'm cautious with that and I probably do too many.
I did really study the post that Bryan O'Haley wrote on another thread on wand technique. In short: Cleaning in 4 foot chunks ,Wet pass to the right and back and the the dry passes. Accomplishes TACT. I want that. Made a lot of sense to me and I tried it for the first time yesterday. Seemed to have worked even with the wand I currently have.I'm trying, I don't want to be a hack. Really I can't say it enough times, I am truly grateful for all the help! I don't have a lot to offer in return at this point (except maybe that I ask a lot of stuff that any newbie may have an interest in).
Anyway I'm starting to realize that I should get a better wand. Probably before I buy anything else.So I'm looking into that.

 

[Doug Cox]

Mine was a 4.0 and I ran it at about 2250 rpms. the newer ones might have ran at lower rpms. Maybe some one else can confirm. Just remember, you are going to get a biased view on wands, so you have to sift through the info and make a decision on your own.

 

[gimmeagig]

Mine was a 4.0 and I ran it at about 2250 rpms. the newer ones might have ran at lower rpms. Maybe some one else can confirm. Just remember, you are going to get a biased view on wands, so you have to sift through the info and make a decision on your own.

I just talked to John and I'll buy his wand . Hadn't planned on buying a new one, wanted some other stuff first but you planted that seed in my head and I've realized ( reluctantly) that I have to get a new wand before I buy anything else.
As far as the RPMs go, I think I may have to have that checked out.If I'm getting 13 hg at 1900 rpm. I'm not too far off but maybe I can do better by raising it a little. Now should I just raise the idle of the engine or is that something I adjust on the machine itself?

 

[Doug Cox]

You need to set the rpm's to the correct setting under load (which means totally blocking off the vacuum at the machine)and then adjust the vac release on the tank lid. The settings on the CDS are easy yet complicated when it comes to getting them right.

 

[gimmeagig]

Doesn't sound that easy. I saw in my manual that there should be a vac release on the top of the tank , not on the lid, but it is not there at least I could not find it. I had my truck checked out a year ago by LPM in Spokane, they didn't say there was anything missing on the truck. I suppose I'll take it there to have them look at it again. So much to learn about the business, I guess I won't take any chances and I'll let them dial it in for me.

 

[Doug Cox]

I'm sorry, it should be on the back side of the tank, right behind the drivers seat.

 

[TimP]

A cds 4.8 should be ran at 1400-1600 on the VDO on the machine. I don't know what the engine rpm should be as my truck doesn't have a tach. As far as your vac relief with both ports completely sealed factory setting is 14 hg. The adjustment is under the waterbox where the vac tube from the blower connects to the waste tank. There is a knob/bolt that you can turn that increases the tension of the spring, I believe it's on the right side.