IYO

[Larry B]

So if you have the vacuum and 175 on the truck and just never use it then your not a hack because you have them on the truck.














Brian at your age you will take pissing setting down to the next level shortly. Pissing a diaper again

 

[Brian R]

Here I try to pay you a compliment and you dis me like that.
I'm hurt. :|

 

[Ron Werner]

Mikey, don't you have a big $90.00 vacuum on your truck that you can use?

Why do you insist on letting the $100.00 vac do the work?


I've been around long enough to know that pre vacuuming is just to keep your filters clean.
Maybe vacuum up some heavy debris or powder...maybe.

The main reason for vacuuming (According the DAIICRC) is to get out the dry soil in order to decrease dry times...at least that's how I remember it.

SOmeone was just waiting for me to chime in on this I bet.
I've been vacuuming long enough to know that prevacuuming has a lot more importance than dry times and keeping your filter clean.
First, the only reason it decreases dry times is because if you don't prevac you'll be trying to flush all that crap out of the carpet and over-wetting the carpet. I did this when I first started because it was how I was taught; a company worried more about making money than doing a proper job.

Second, prevacuuming will keep your filter cleaner but there is a lot more crap in a carpet than even a V or AT will ever get out on its own. A wand is a wand, its designed to remove water and light soil on the top of the carpet. But for any seasoned cleaner, you KNOW how difficult it is to try and suck up a wet hair! What makes you think a TM is going to suck up all the soil from a carpet when it takes a specific special effort just to get a couple hairs up the wand???

Third, why not let the $100 vacuum do its job so that the $20,000 dollar machine can do its job without ALSO having to do the work a $100 machine could have handled? I watched a guy RX20 a carpet, move to the next area, and the area he JUST cleaned turned brown with wicking soil right before our eyes. He went back and forth over those areas 2 or 3 times. Had he spent 20 minutes with a cheap vacuum cleaner, he could have saved $20 in fuel and not over wet hose areas.

But now, dry times are not an issue because of better equipment and newer equipment (better fans etc.)


I'm sure you will disagree but you are losing money because of time restraints. Unless you actually charge for vacuuming. Which I think is wrong...
A higher price because of vacuuming is the same thing.

Clean the carpets in the most efficient way, charge accordingly and don't screw the customer with all the un-needed fufu crap.


How do you sleep at night?

WHy is it wrong to charge for vacuuming? Why is it wrong to charge to do something the homeowner could not do themselves? Very rarely do I go into a home and after vacuuming I have an insignificant amount of soil collected. VERY rarely.

Its not fufu. Its essential. If you go into someone's home and after steam cleaning, it looks all nice and you tell the custy that its "clean", you're lying to them because unless you properly prevacuumed first, you're guessing at best.

I'm sure Ken or someone that just prespray/rinses will disagree, but I'm not putting down that way, I understand that its "acceptable" business practice and that you can make more money per day if you don't prevac yourself. What I'll put down every day of the year is anyone who says that they are getting the carpet JUST as clean. I'll start posting new vacuum canister pictures again, had a couple good ones just last week from "clean looking" carpet. If all you do is just prespray/rinse, you're leaving a shit loud of soil in the carpet and you'll never know it. The only exception is those rare clients that have a maid that vacuums EVERY day, or they're these rich people that never "live" in their house. I bet I could make their maid look bad though. I've been in places where the house cleaner had just vacuumed.

Big thing now is cleaning for health. That means removing the allergens from the carpet. That means removing as much of the dry particulate as possible BEFORE getting it wet. The only way I know how to do that is by taking the time to prevacuum.

Removing that dry particulate also increases the lifespan of that carpet as there isn't as much in there cutting away at the fibres.

 

[Art Kelley]

[ If you go into someone's home and after steam cleaning, it looks all nice and you tell the custy that its "clean", you're lying to them because unless you properly prevacuumed first, you're guessing at best.

What I'll put down every day of the year is anyone who says that they are getting the carpet JUST as clean. .[/color]

You're guessing at best Ron that the soil collected in your little vacuum canister has more significince than the pounds of crap collected in the truck mount vacuum filter box and your process leaves the carpet cleaner.

 

[DevilThomas]

Any carpet cleaner that doesn't bother to carry a Vacuum and a mechanical agitator of some kind on his truck is definately a hack....he is not prepared to do quality work... marketing and bullshit may get you jobs...only quality work will keep those customers and make you competitive. Customers judge your work by the only criteria that they can judge ...Appearance

To all those that have excuses like time, hourly rate, etc...I would suggest the best way to deal with a competitive business... is to quit chasing the "fast" buck, and pursue the "permanent" buck by carrying the tools one needs to perform quality work specific to the situation encountered... you might have to work harder for the same money sometimes...but that is how you build a trusting, loyal customer base.

Of course... if you are in over your head with Truck/TM payments, shop bills, etc... and can't afford to take the time not to be a hack... then you are probably doomed anyway. :wink:

Says the dude who is just starting out. Come back in a year or two and tell me when you're out of business. Truthfully, if I was a customer, I would be more concerned with the cleaner not dragging his hoses around my corners and furniture and damaging and breaking shit. I don't usually use a vacuum but I do a pretty thorough vacuuming with my hose along all the walls and cleaning up all the crap before I start. Say what you want, I've been in business for more than 20 years, way more than most of you jokers can say.

P.S. And I work mostly on referrals and repeat business. Literally no advertising.

So says the guy from little Delavan, WI....population approx. 8,000...who has 1 competitor (Jonsen). I guess you don't have to do quality work or advertize when your customer base is composed of relatives, relatives of relatives, and people you grew up with....say what you want...you probably "inherited" your business... :wink:

PS...We have to go to work today....We are slammed with business for the rest of the month...

 

[Brian R]

Ron, you are guessing at best no matter what. Just because you pull up a ton of soil with dry vac doesn't mean you know that you have it all.

I just think that vacuuming is a waste of time in most situations if you have the right cleaning equipment.

That $20.00 dollars extra spend on the big machine is an extra 2 or 5 hundred for the day if you can schedule it.

I think the carpets get just as clean with a prespray and a good flush.

I've looked down to the backing of carpets by separating the fibers and have seen the clean.
If you think you are pulling up any deeper than that, you are fooling yourself.

 

[Doug Cox]

Any carpet cleaner that doesn't bother to carry a Vacuum and a mechanical agitator of some kind on his truck is definately a hack....he is not prepared to do quality work... marketing and bullshit may get you jobs...only quality work will keep those customers and make you competitive. Customers judge your work by the only criteria that they can judge ...Appearance

To all those that have excuses like time, hourly rate, etc...I would suggest the best way to deal with a competitive business... is to quit chasing the "fast" buck, and pursue the "permanent" buck by carrying the tools one needs to perform quality work specific to the situation encountered... you might have to work harder for the same money sometimes...but that is how you build a trusting, loyal customer base.

Of course... if you are in over your head with Truck/TM payments, shop bills, etc... and can't afford to take the time not to be a hack... then you are probably doomed anyway. :wink:

Says the dude who is just starting out. Come back in a year or two and tell me when you're out of business. Truthfully, if I was a customer, I would be more concerned with the cleaner not dragging his hoses around my corners and furniture and damaging and breaking shit. I don't usually use a vacuum but I do a pretty thorough vacuuming with my hose along all the walls and cleaning up all the crap before I start. Say what you want, I've been in business for more than 20 years, way more than most of you jokers can say.

P.S. And I work mostly on referrals and repeat business. Literally no advertising.

So says the guy from little Delavan, WI....population approx. 8,000...who has 1 competitor (Jonsen). I guess you don't have to do quality work or advertize when your customer base is composed of relatives, relatives of relatives, and people you grew up with....say what you want...you probably "inherited" your business... :wink:

PS...We have to go to work today....We are slammed with business for the rest of the month...

Dude, you have no clue. If you want to get into a pissing contest, pull out your financial statements and compare them to mine. If you make more, I'll shut the hell up. Otherwise, piss off.

 

[Kevin. McCreary]

There is a lot more money to be maid being a hack if you don't let your clients know any different.
They keep calling back and keep referring and keep spending $$$$. So I guess the upper income homes
that I clean, that are never too dirty anyway, don't know the difference.
In my opinion you can make money with the Host method or any style of cleaning if you are professional
about it.

My Dad cleaned carpets in the 60's with a bucket and brush on his hands and knees and people still think he was the best.

 

[Kevin. McCreary]

Oh and who the hell wants a dusty stinky vacuum pushed around there house
any way when I can wet it all down and remove it from the house.

 

[hogjowl]

It would NOT surprise me if in 5 to 10 years we are worried about cross contamination to the point that vacuuming with our general population vacuum cleaners will be taboo.

In fact, if I could stand pushing and pulling an unglided titanium wand on my 6008 blower all day, I'd probably not be prevacuuming now. I've seen the crud and junk THAT thing will pull out of a carpet and you can't tell me a vacuum cleaner will pull more out.

 

[Ernie G]

Marty, it is taboo, its in the new energy bill! LOL

 

[Ron Werner]

You're guessing at best Ron that the soil collected in your little vacuum canister has more significince than the pounds of crap collected in the truck mount vacuum filter box and your process leaves the carpet cleaner.

Ron, you are guessing at best no matter what. Just because you pull up a ton of soil with dry vac doesn't mean you know that you have it all.

I just think that vacuuming is a waste of time in most situations if you have the right cleaning equipment.

That $20.00 dollars extra spend on the big machine is an extra 2 or 5 hundred for the day if you can schedule it.

I think the carpets get just as clean with a prespray and a good flush.

I've looked down to the backing of carpets by separating the fibers and have seen the clean.
If you think you are pulling up any deeper than that, you are fooling yourself.

I'd really love to put that to the test. That was the whole reason behind that demo I put on at MF. Put a bunch of sand and carpet deodourizer powder in a carpet, clean it with a machine that most would agree would give the best "clean", let it dry and then vacuum it. In the demo it was a Genesis but unfortunately he wasn't using a greenhorn or equivalent. What he did remove was a fair bit of the sand, what it failed to remove was the powder, which once it got wet, it was there to stay.

I've see so much lint and hair come up from vacuuming a carpet that had just been vacuumed by the owner, I've seen what's on my prefilter before the TM (which is as fine a mesh as a blower filter, but I've NEVER seen more in my TM filter than I have in my vacuum canister.
I know a TM only will put a lot of junk in the filter if it's not prevacuumed, but is the soil removal maximized? When you get down and look into the carpet, you're looking over less than a square inch, would you see a white powder thats caked onto the backing?

 

[Doug Cox]

[quote="Art Kelley":2ky37bmq]You're guessing at best Ron that the soil collected in your little vacuum canister has more significince than the pounds of crap collected in the truck mount vacuum filter box and your process leaves the carpet cleaner.

Ron, you are guessing at best no matter what. Just because you pull up a ton of soil with dry vac doesn't mean you know that you have it all.

I just think that vacuuming is a waste of time in most situations if you have the right cleaning equipment.

That $20.00 dollars extra spend on the big machine is an extra 2 or 5 hundred for the day if you can schedule it.

I think the carpets get just as clean with a prespray and a good flush.

I've looked down to the backing of carpets by separating the fibers and have seen the clean.
If you think you are pulling up any deeper than that, you are fooling yourself.

I'd really love to put that to the test. That was the whole reason behind that demo I put on at MF. Put a bunch of sand and carpet deodourizer powder in a carpet, clean it with a machine that most would agree would give the best "clean", let it dry and then vacuum it. In the demo it was a Genesis but unfortunately he wasn't using a greenhorn or equivalent. What he did remove was a fair bit of the sand, what it failed to remove was the powder, which once it got wet, it was there to stay.

I've see so much lint and hair come up from vacuuming a carpet that had just been vacuumed by the owner, I've seen what's on my prefilter before the TM (which is as fine a mesh as a blower filter, but I've NEVER seen more in my TM filter than I have in my vacuum canister.
I know a TM only will put a lot of junk in the filter if it's not prevacuumed, but is the soil removal maximized? When you get down and look into the carpet, you're looking over less than a square inch, would you see a white powder thats caked onto the backing?[/quote:2ky37bmq]

Let's be fair Ron, Half the shit you vacuum out of a carpet is fiber and the rest is soil that that you don't know how much more you got than the other guy.

 

[Doug Cox]

Thomas- So why doesn't your company doesn't come up in any searches. Maybe because your a loser like I suspect? And other people on here.

 

[Doug Cox]

It would NOT surprise me if in 5 to 10 years we are worried about cross contamination to the point that vacuuming with our general population vacuum cleaners will be taboo.

In fact, if I could stand pushing and pulling an unglided titanium wand on my 6008 blower all day, I'd probably not be prevacuuming now. I've seen the crud and junk THAT thing will pull out of a carpet and you can't tell me a vacuum cleaner will pull more out.

So Marty- Why do you you continue to vacuum?....................................................



























Is it the Waldo thing?LOL









































Too bad all you guys let Mickeys Board set the standards instead of yourselves. There is a middle ground where everyone can be happy, you know.

 

[Brian R]

Doug wrote

Too bad all you guys let Mickeys Board set the standards instead of yourselves. There is a middle ground where everyone can be happy, you know

Well said.
I have been known to vacuum every now and then.

It's just not an everyday accurance.

 

[Ron Werner]

Let's be fair Ron, Half the shit you vacuum out of a carpet is fiber and the rest is soil that that you don't know how much more you got than the other guy.

The majority is NOT fibres. Its dust and sand and unknown powder, sometimes its latex from backing breaking down. Go back and look at all the pictures I've posted. Yes, there are fibres there, a lot of lint, but the majority is granular.

AS for this cross contamination stuff, the only way that's ever going to be an issue is if some idiot starts making a big deal out of it and it gets all out of proportion as did the mold issue. I've been vacuuming since 95 and maybe once or twice a year I felt the need to wash the brush etc because the last place was such a filth trap.

I would love to not vacuum. It doubles the time it takes to clean. If you saw what I've seen come out of carpet that I "thought" was clean enough that I didn't need to vacuum, you might understand why I do not trust to not vacuum. I look at what comes out and I ask myself if this stuff would have gotten removed from just steam cleaning and it always comes back to me the same; No it wouldn't. Its like in my video. Some guys said that they would have gotten that carpet "just as clean in half the time" by just steam cleaning. No, they would have left a LOT of crud in that carpet, and it twernt just fibre I was vacuuming up.

 

[Al]

We pre vac on almost every job, we pre scrub the ones that need it and still post pad a few.
8)

 

[Chris A]

Don't forget you also don't have to obsessively vacuum... I started pre-vaccing because we were getting complaints of being too fast on the job. Now we seem to have a happy medium.

 

[hogjowl]

You Junior High half-witts either pick and choose which part of a post you want to pick on, or you aren't smart enough to actually read and process the logic of anything over one sentence.

I continue to vacuum because I CAN'T push an unglided wand all day with this 6008 blower.

Think about that a bit before you embarrass yourself any more.

 

[Ron Werner]

Don't forget you also don't have to obsessively vacuum... I started pre-vaccing because we were getting complaints of being too fast on the job. Now we seem to have a happy medium.

I agree. I've a friend that pre-vacs and he's more obsessive. I just vac the area and if see the soil coming out I slow down and let the vacuum do its job. I'll take pictures and time myself on my job today. It hasn't been steam cleaned in a while and the housecleaner is the one that referred me.

 

[Brian R]

I suppose if I had a helper, I would make him or her vacuum.

 

[Mikey P]

Robison,


dude...


stfu with his I do this and I do that bs.
You do nothing but answer the phone and alphabetizer your lipsticks and pancake collections.


You have no idea waht your KP monkeys are doing out there.



and at fiddy% I bet they aint doing MUCH!









Ron is dead on in every thing he says.

if you don't agree, you're a short cutting hack.


period.

 

[Brian R]

You act like I've never cleaned a carpet before.
And I still clean some of our bigger jobs, dumbass.


At 50% he is making more money than some of you at 100% with a hell of a lot less overhead.
He makes more money than I do at the end of the day from what he does.
That's why I have to run more than just one or two crews to justify me only getting 50%.

It works, and it helps everyone make money involved.

So you STFU about this that you know shit about, Fucktard.

 

[Mikey P]

OK Kevin.

 

[Brian R]

I know, I sounded like him huh?

Well I get pissed Goddamnit!!!
-George Carlin.

 

[Doug Cox]

Martin- I want to apologize for disregarding your first sentence when I asked you my question. For such a wisecracker, I didn't think you would turn into such a pissy bitch. I was just busting your balls.

 

[Greenie]

fucktard...lol

 

[Ron Werner]

Here's the job,
LR/DR combo, FR, hall, 2 bedrooms. almost 1000sf
moved most of the furniture - Thank God for sliders

here's what the LR/DR, Mstr bedroom, and FR looked like

Vacuuming took 1hr

You can see the layers of soil. There is some carpet fibre but its only part if it. There's a lot of dust and hair and soil. Couple dark soil lines from entrances.

Here's how fine my prefilter is and here's what got caught on the prefilter after steam cleaning

Had I not prevacuumed that, there is no way I would have removed the same amount of loose particulate. I could have used the tank filter, much courser holes, I still would have left stuff in the carpet just wouldn't have seen as much in the filter.

The client was thrilled with the work.
Took about 5hrs (including talk time with client), about $550.