Jeff Woods – Judson Installs Reengineered Heat-Exchange Unit

[Leslie Judson Jones]

k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OKTxCIcKDMk]














PART 1

k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkBzsBKM0Usk]



PART 2

k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDu9ji19AK4k]

 

[joe harper]

Re: Jeff Woods – Judson Installs Reengineered Heat-Exchange

That,s COOL.....good job..!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I will be sending you my Everest 650 HP.......The 1st time it...( Hi-Up's ) 8)

 

[Bob Foster]

Re: Jeff Woods – Judson Installs Reengineered Heat-Exchange

He could sell all the parts that came off of the Blueline for a tidy sum.

 

[Scott S.]

Re: Jeff Woods – Judson Installs Reengineered Heat-Exchange

cool les, great job. simple is better in my book. keep up the good work...

 

[woodsey]

Re: Jeff Woods – Judson Installs Reengineered Heat-Exchange

First report after three jobs with modified thermalwave, SWEEEEET !!!! Had to turn the heat down a bit , alota poppin goin on and the line was getting a bit warm. Ran it on single wand and had good dry time . Nice and quiet. No problems. The heat never fell off on a large commercial job I did this morning . Jeff Woods

 

[Warren Wallace]

Re: Jeff Woods – Judson Installs Reengineered Heat-Exchange

Great job Les, a true pioneer!! The #4 little giant heater is the best!

 

[GeneMiller]

Re: Jeff Woods – Judson Installs Reengineered Heat-Exchange

Sorry but what A shame. next time just replace the low pressure shut off switch for 30 dollars.

gene

 

[Out of Character - 0]

Re: Jeff Woods – Judson Installs Reengineered Heat-Exchange

Judging by how quick the LG turns off I would assume the Blueline is preheating the water. That's a recipe for retarded heat that the Blueline didn't have before.

 

[Leslie Judson Jones]

Re: Jeff Woods – Judson Installs Reengineered Heat-Exchange

Sorry but what A shame. next time just replace the low pressure shut off switch for 30 dollars.

gene

Gene,

I appreciate the advice on what it would have taken to repair this unit. I wish Jeff Woods had your phone # when he was down and out, but unfortunately he was told by two of the most popular distributors and the manufacturer that his machine would need a $2,000 computer. I wonder why they never suggested the $30 low pressure switch?

To bring you up to speed with the situation with Jeff Woods, he was having to drive a good distance for his repairs, and once the warranty was out, it was costing him a considerable amount of money in repair costs and down time. Once we got the unit in Greenville, all I did was reset the computer which allowed the unit to run properly. I wonder why the 2 distributors and the manufacturer didn’t suggest that? Jeff did receive a call from one of the distributors suggesting it, but it was after I had possession of the unit and had already reset it.

The low pressure switch was not faulty on this unit and if it had been, it would not have solved Jeff’s problem of the heat dropping to 140 degrees on the high-flow. His unit now sustains 240 on high-flow. Gene, I do appreciate your reply. You might want to look at my other two videos about reengineering. There are several things you might want to check on your unit. One – there is a hose coming out of the bottom of the intake manifold that is very close to the exhaust manifold and it is brittle. Two – You need to put some type of heat shield around the wiring harness as it is routed across the top of the exhaust manifold. This is explained in the other two videos.



Thanks,

Les

 

[Leslie Judson Jones]

Re: Jeff Woods – Judson Installs Reengineered Heat-Exchange

Judging by how quick the LG turns off I would assume the Blueline is preheating the water. That's a recipe for retarded heat that the Blueline didn't have before.

We’re not preheating the water with the truckmount. We converted the pump and regulator to operate with cold water only. This extends the life of these two components dramatically. The #4 Little Giant heater, really doesn’t require any preheating. The fuel consumption under commercial carpet cleaning conditions is .9 of one gallon of fuel per hour. Under residential conditions it is around .5 gallons per hour. We feel the simpler the system, the better even if it might cost an extra 25 cents per hour to operate.

 

[woodsey]

Re: Jeff Woods – Judson Installs Reengineered Heat-Exchange

Gene thanks for reading the post and your input . The low pressure switch was not the problem with this unit. Let me back up a bit, the name of this unit is the THERMALWAVE which indicates it should have alot of heat, it did not as it was more like a thermalripple.To get any kind of heat it HAD to run on dual wand. A waste of fuel and it put more wear on the engine and parts. To be fair I do run high flow. With the little giant#4 I get instant 240 degrees on idle if I want and have no bypass. No need to run dual wand setting unless I am dual wanding . The thermalwave was made with very good parts. Great engine,blower ,pump and frame .It is also a very large unit and when in a van it it takes up ALOT of space. When there is a problem you cant get to it in the van unless you have 3 extra joints in your arm and its no larger than a broomstick. I could not afford to take it to the shop 200 miles away and have it worked on every time it had a problem. The problems were coming out of the over complicated heat exchange control system. With the new set up there is very little to go wrong and if it has a problem I can work on it in the van and easily repair it myself. With all of the old parts removed its now like a 57 chevy, open the hood and there is not much there . Here is the bottom line , I now expect the heat system to last as long if not longer than the motor ,blower and pump and be just as trouble free. There is an added bonus that the little giant allows less strain on the motor and pump hopefully extending their service life. Woodsey

 

[GeneMiller]

Re: Jeff Woods – Judson Installs Reengineered Heat-Exchange

Jeff my pump has over 8000 hrs with hot water going through it so I wouldn't worry about that. I just hate to see removing working parts to change it to a 4ht. You could of added that and used a lot less propane. I didn't watch all the videos so I don't l know , did you replace the computer or add a carburator ?

My water going into my machine starts at around 85 so the heat exchanger doesn't have to boost it much. I run high flow with no problem maintaining heat. This has been the most trouble free machine I have owned. I have only replaced sensors as part of maintenance with one exception, the air temp sensor went out. I have worn out 2 starters, 1 radiator and the nissan water pump but that's it.

I did also replace the blower since the bearing seal failed which did mean the blower would eventually go. my fault for over greasing, who knew. I was told it would probably run 2 years before failing and give me plenty of notice but I didn't like taking the chance.



gene

 

[Mikey P]

Re: Jeff Woods – Judson Installs Reengineered Heat-Exchange

good lord!

the most trouble free machine I have owned. I have only replaced sensors as part of maintenance with one exception, the air temp sensor went out. I have worn out 2 starters, 1 radiator and the nissan water pump but that's it.

I did also replace the blower since the bearing seal failed which did mean the blower would eventually go. my fault for over greasing, who knew. I was told it would probably run 2 years before failing and give me plenty of notice but I didn't like taking the chance.

So what did you have to do to your worse TM that you've owned? :shock:

 

[Leslie Judson Jones]

Re: Jeff Woods – Judson Installs Reengineered Heat-Exchange

Jeff my pump has over 8000 hrs with hot water going through it so I wouldn't worry about that. I just hate to see removing working parts to change it to a 4ht. You could of added that and used a lot less propane. I didn't watch all the videos so I don't l know , did you replace the computer or add a carburator ?

My water going into my machine starts at around 85 so the heat exchanger doesn't have to boost it much. I run high flow with no problem maintaining heat. This has been the most trouble free machine I have owned. I have only replaced sensors as part of maintenance with one exception, the air temp sensor went out. I have worn out 2 starters, 1 radiator and the nissan water pump but that's it.

I did also replace the blower since the bearing seal failed which did mean the blower would eventually go. my fault for over greasing, who knew. I was told it would probably run 2 years before failing and give me plenty of notice but I didn't like taking the chance.



gene

Gene

Do you still have the old blower? These blowers have vents that let the grease vent out if you do over- grease them.

Over- greasing will not make the blower go bad. Judson Vacuum has over 600 of our blowers still in operation in Milliken textile manufacturing factories http://www.millikenmilitary.com/Pages/index.aspx and some of them have over 200,000 hrs on them, and they get over-greased every 15 days.

If you still have the old blower send it to me and if it’s good I will buy it from you.

Thanks

Les

 

[floorguy]

Re: Jeff Woods – Judson Installs Reengineered Heat-Exchange

hey why take out the heli-coil??

to me it seems as a good way to "pre-heat" the water before the heater

 

[joeynbgky]

Re: Jeff Woods – Judson Installs Reengineered Heat-Exchange

I don't think it is a good idea to pre-heat water going into a little giant! I hear bad things can happen if you do! Like tear it up.. am I right Les?

 

[Nate The Great]

Re: Jeff Woods – Judson Installs Reengineered Heat-Exchange

I don't think it is a good idea to pre-heat water going into a little giant! I hear bad things can happen if you do! Like tear it up.. am I right Les?

Wait, what?!? Who'd you hear that from?

 

[Leslie Judson Jones]

Re: Jeff Woods – Judson Installs Reengineered Heat-Exchange

hey why take out the heli-coil??

to me it seems as a good way to "pre-heat" the water before the heater

Doug ,

The reason that we did not leave the engine coolant water heat exchanger on the engine is to gain maximum reliability, and it’s not needed anyway with the new #4 Little Giant heater. I’m not a big fan of water cooled engines on truckmounts, for the simple reason that the unit is several hundred feet away from you while in use and you can not see it. If there is an issue with the water cooled part of the engine and the temperature safety switch does not shut the engine down, you’ve just burned an engine up.

In other words, if we had a water-cooled engine in a riding lawn mower or a car, we can see it overheating from the steam exiting the radiator, plus we are sitting there monitoring a gauge at all times. With an air-cooled engine there is no concern at all with these issues. We feel the most important thing is maximum reliability and simplicity of a truckmount.

 

[Leslie Judson Jones]

Re: Jeff Woods – Judson Installs Reengineered Heat-Exchange

I don't think it is a good idea to pre-heat water going into a little giant! I hear bad things can happen if you do! Like tear it up.. am I right Les?

Joey, preheating the water in a Little Giant heater will work, but if you pay attention to the temperature gauge there is quite a bit of fluctuation and the #4 Little Giant heater does not require any pre-heating. This allows us to design a very simple, trouble-free system.

 

[floorguy]

Re: Jeff Woods – Judson Installs Reengineered Heat-Exchange

Ok ok wait a sec....you still left a liquid cooled motor in right??

As i see it the heli coil does 2 things....A. heats the water and B helps cool the engine....when the cold water goes through it takes the heat from the antifreeze and cools it down... not arguing...just thinking out loud...that if you already have it on there, and it works...and it doesnt cause anymore restriction issues (hey i yanked all 3 of my "heater core" exchangers) Plus (and maybe this is just u flow fired fellows or us in the north) but i like it for upholstery cleaning, or 2 preheat in the cold climates..

just saying...that to me is a fairly simple part that could be left in as a benefit...if its broke then yank it

 

[joeynbgky]

Re: Jeff Woods – Judson Installs Reengineered Heat-Exchange

I was told that............ If you even put hot water in your fresh water tank that it will be to much heat for the LG, meaning that it could crack the coils. And to only use cool water in the fresh water tank, which would be the same as pre-heating your water. So if I put hot water in my fresh then my water temp would be much hotter, without damaging the LG? hmm

 

[Leslie Judson Jones]

Re: Jeff Woods – Judson Installs Reengineered Heat-Exchange

Ok ok wait a sec....you still left a liquid cooled motor in right??

As i see it the heli coil does 2 things....A. heats the water and B helps cool the engine....when the cold water goes through it takes the heat from the antifreeze and cools it down... not arguing...just thinking out loud...that if you already have it on there, and it works...and it doesnt cause anymore restriction issues (hey i yanked all 3 of my "heater core" exchangers) Plus (and maybe this is just u flow fired fellows or us in the north) but i like it for upholstery cleaning, or 2 preheat in the cold climates..

just saying...that to me is a fairly simple part that could be left in as a benefit...if its broke then yank it

Doug ,

The main reason we eliminated the engine coolant heat exchanger is they have issues with leaks. That is why they are required to be welded completely closed now. As I said before, the less parts on a unit, the better. Believe me I promise, if something is not on the unit, it can not give you a problem.

 

[Leslie Judson Jones]

Re: Jeff Woods – Judson Installs Reengineered Heat-Exchange

I was told that............ If you even put hot water in your fresh water tank that it will be to much heat for the LG, meaning that it could crack the coils. And to only use cool water in the fresh water tank, which would be the same as pre-heating your water. So if I put hot water in my fresh then my water temp would be much hotter, without damaging the LG? hmm

Joey,

Judson only runs cold water in our fresh water tanks, in our pumps, and in our regulators. This benefit outweighs the benefit of being able to preheat a little more volume of water. The number 4 heater alone heats enough volume of water, so there is really no need to do anything but just use the #4 heater. Remember; Simple = Less Problems.

 

[joeynbgky]

Re: Jeff Woods – Judson Installs Reengineered Heat-Exchange

does this go for the #3 as well?

 

[GeneMiller]

Re: Jeff Woods – Judson Installs Reengineered Heat-Exchange

Les, yes I have the blower and yes it still works. I was told by the mechanic at TAW in Tampa what caused the problem, although you probably would know better. At that price range they are considered disposible so why take a chance.

Mike any machine that gets used will need parts, somethings just wear out. My machine doesn't leave me stranded and I don't need a backup.
I'm not the type of person who waits for his brakes to squeal before I replace them. Just my way.

gene

 

[Ron Werner]

Re: Jeff Woods – Judson Installs Reengineered Heat-Exchange

I was told that............ If you even put hot water in your fresh water tank that it will be to much heat for the LG, meaning that it could crack the coils. And to only use cool water in the fresh water tank, which would be the same as pre-heating your water. So if I put hot water in my fresh then my water temp would be much hotter, without damaging the LG? hmm

Joey,

Judson only runs cold water in our fresh water tanks, in our pumps, and in our regulators. This benefit outweighs the benefit of being able to preheat a little more volume of water. The number 4 heater alone heats enough volume of water, so there is really no need to do anything but just use the #4 heater. Remember; Simple = Less Problems.

Answers my question Les

 

[Out of Character - 0]

Re: Jeff Woods – Judson Installs Reengineered Heat-Exchange

We feed ours 160-180F.

 

[Leslie Judson Jones]

Re: Jeff Woods – Judson Installs Reengineered Heat-Exchange

does this go for the #3 as well?

Joey,

Preheating with a #3 will allow it to maintain temperatures on higher flows like on a high flow wand. So if you have a #3 and you want it to heat more volume, then yes, preheating would be the answer for that situation. Personally I would replace the #3 with a #4. The fuel consumption of a #4 during residential cleaning is only .5 of one gallon of gas per hour.

 

[mwall2230]

Re: Jeff Woods – Judson Installs Reengineered Heat-Exchange

Les, just by curiosity what's the maximum psi you can run on a Little giant #4

 

[Leslie Judson Jones]

Re: Jeff Woods – Judson Installs Reengineered Heat-Exchange

Les, just by curiosity what's the maximum psi you can run on a Little giant #4

1500 LBS MAX