Judson Misconceptions Pt2

[Mikey P]

Let's keep the drama out of this thread and discuss the math mentioned.

http://youtu.be/1441GxMvHGY



I'm not good enough with a calculator to fact check the $50K extra to run a HX unit for ten years compared to a fuel fired unit..

 

[hogjowl]

The cost of the larger engine combined with the extra fuel costs must be calculated into your decision. I get his point that free is never really free.

 

[Deleted member 51539]

I could bag on Les' machine all day...But I like the guy.

We will explore the 4HT Little giant heater instead.

120 degree rise at 1.87 gal/min. (off the top of my head and i'm drinking so don't hate)

Unless you have a pre heater- 240 degree H20 (sustained) can not be achieved.

View attachment 3702

 

[dgardner]

I could bag on Les' machine all day...But I like the guy.

We will explore the 4HT Little giant heater instead.

120 degree rise at 1.87 gal/min. (off the top of my head and i'm drinking so don't hate)

Unless you have a pre heater- 240 degree H20 (sustained) can not be achieved.

C. Guy is correct about the rise and GPM.

If you assume 60 deg. fresh water, to get 240 sustained you would have to limit your flow to about 500 psi/04 flow. If you are willing to accept 200 deg. then you can bump to 450 psi/06 flow. This sounds bad until you realize that many HX units specify a max of 06 flow to meet their temperature specs.

Of course, sustained flow is worst case. No one keys the wand continuously for hours on end. if you key part-time, like only on the back stroke, then the apparent BTU from the heater increases and the temps are a little hotter.

That having been said, I think Les's HX costs are a little inflated.

 

[dgardner]

Les says that the HX machine burns $4.50per hour MORE fuel than his propane-heated machine. At $3.00 per gallon, that's 1.5 gallons MORE gasoline for the HX truckmount. Doesn't the TNT burn about 1 gph gasoline? That means the equivalent HX machine burns 2.5 gph? Does that sound right? And is he figuring in the cost of propane?

He says the big engine costs $5K to replace, and lasts 10,000 hours. Compare that with a smaller engine that lasts 4500 hours and costs $2500 to replace - isn't that about the same?

Did anyone read the close-captioned text? It's hilarious! Must've been auto-generated.....

 

[Moto52]

For those using propane get ready for a price jump. Propane has nearly doubled in price since the beginning of this year.
This may force Judson to rethink HX.

 

[Desk Jockey]

His math is correct, but his example is questionable depending on what unit he is talking about.

The Butlers will burn that much more fuel but a typical slide in will not. Our PC units only burn a gallon an hour and they have the big Nissan.

He is right about additional cost of the bigger motor initially but it seems like its a trade off of "pay me now or pay me a little more for secondary fuel along the life of the unit."

If you're an owner op the time to get you fuel is just your time but when you run a fleet of TM's and you sending tech's to fetch propane, not only is the fuel going to cost but the time wasted getting it.

As far as Myth busted, I think its salesmen hype. It can be argued either way. Honestly I don't feel there is a right or wrong, but its a personal or financial preference that needs to be decided when you're looking at units.

 

[Art Kelley]

His math is correct, but his example is questionable depending on what unit he is talking about.

The Butlers will burn that much more fuel but a typical slide in will not. Our PC units only burn a gallon an hour and they have the big Nissan.

He is right about additional cost of the bigger motor initially but it seems like its a trade off of "pay me now or pay me a little more for secondary fuel along the life of the unit."

If you're an owner op the time to get you fuel is just your time but when you run a fleet of TM's and you sending tech's to fetch propane, not only is the fuel going to cost but the time wasted getting it.

As far as Myth busted, I think its salesmen hype. It can be argued either way. Honestly I don't feel there is a right or wrong, but its a personal or financial preference that needs to be decided when you're looking at units.

Les's example is more along the lines of your Butler or my Pro1200 which gives the free heat but uses 2.1 gal/hr gas to do so. He's not factoring in the cost of the propane or the time and hassle of getting it. Let's look at that. I don't know the cost of propane use but let's say for those 1000 hrs/yr you use 500 gal. Last summer it was $2/gal, now it's $3/gal, probably go to $3.50?/gal after this hard winter. That's $1500. Then if you don't get paid for your time, (which you don't when filling) how many hours a year is that wasted? 50? If your time is worth $50/hr then there is no savings. If it's worth more, you lose.Plus if the heater has to be replaced after 10000 hrs, what do those cost?

 

[Desk Jockey]

If I were owner op and cost were a concern I would probably buy propane fired heat. Low initial cost.

But for us, I want as little maintenance and repairs as possible. Over the years liquid cooled has proven to be less of issue and built for the long haul.
Worth the extra to me but we rack up some hours on the powerplant.

Its costs you either way, the whole thing is really a moot point. Pick the type of powerplant and heat that best serve your use.

 

[Mikey P]

Waldo and I both were at ground zero of a propane Hiroshima.

While the two of us may be morons, the average cleaning tech should never be allowed any where near a Little Giant heater.


Lost my eyebrows, leg hair and my wig got so curled the next Mrs Piftleton that day mistook me for Tom Jones.


Owner Ops only IMO.

 

[hogjowl]

I thought you wanted to keep the drama out of this thread?

 

[Mikey P]

is the potential danger of Propane considered "Drama"?

 

[Art Kelley]

Waldo and I both were at ground zero of a propane Hiroshima.

While the two of us may be morons, the average cleaning tech should never be allowed any where near a Little Giant heater.


Lost my eyebrows, leg hair and my wig got so curled the next Mrs Piftleton that day mistook me for Tom Jones.


Owner Ops only IMO.

When I look at the conditions inside my van when I'm working balls to the walls, let's just say it's not pristine. When I look at my history of recklessness and carelessness (my two amputated fingers are just a laugh a minute), I know dicking around with a propane bomb is a recipe for disaster for me. I don't look at my HX, or even inside my 1200 cover for years at a time. I'm doing some long overdue work on the machine this week replacing an unloader that's been leaking for 3 years and some hoses, and changing oils, which are still clean after three years.

 

[JS41035]

I've never looked back at a bad month and had fuel cost be the reason. Even at five bucks a gallon. I gotta say buy a machine that makes you wanna work. And buy based on reliability. I like the heat of the fuel fired stuff. But I've been there when they malfunction. Cool story to tell and a scar I like to make up stories about, but not fun at 2 AM. But we have been able to start fires in vans with a wide variety of methods so take my advice with a grain of salt


....

 

[GCCLee]

Ever played with a flame thrower?


tit for tat,
I would rather deal with luke warm water shooting at me : ) more than I would like dealing with the aftermath of a fire in my rig.
Talk about some Odorcide, lol

 

[Desk Jockey]

Propane is really pretty safe. With a little instruction you'd have to be a real idiot to get hurt.
LOL

The biggest thing is if it blows out or has trouble lighting, let the air clear before you actually ignite it. Keep your face away from the heater when you do light it.

In all the years (decades) with multiple crews we only had one incident and that tech allowed the propane to build up and burned his eye brows off. Definitely his fault but one knock against having (brain dead) tech's using propane heat.

As an owner op, you really shouldn't have any problems. No more dangerous than lighting your hot water heater or furnace at home.

 

[GCCLee]

Propane is really pretty safe. With a little instruction you'd have to be a real idiot to get hurt.
LOL

The biggest thing is if it blows out or has trouble lighting, let the air clear before you actually ignite it. Keep your face away from the heater when you do light it.

In all the years (decades) with multiple crews we only had one incident and that tech allowed the propane to build up and burned his eye brows off. Definitely his fault but one knock against having (brain dead) tech's using propane heat.

As an owner op, you really shouldn't have any problems. No more dangerous than lighting your hot water heater or furnace at home.

I learned at a young age what Gasoline and a Match does!

No one seemed to think that was important enough to tell me I suppose, then on the 4th of July the suns a beeches lit a friggin firecracker in my hand and forgot to tell me to throw it!

Respect is demanded at all times with any kind of fuel! especially when under pressure.

 

[hogjowl]

I've singed the hair on my left hand a couple of times. Both times it was my fault. If the striker was working properly on the heater, it wouldn't have been necessary for me to be bent over lighting it with a lighter. When these heaters come from the factory, the pilot light is never lined up with the striker tube correctly.

 

[Jerry]

I guess I cut my teeth on a HX machine and that's what I'm used to. It would be nice to have damn near instant heat with a diesel or propane unit but I just don't want to mess around with duel fuels. Matter of personal taste....

 

[Desk Jockey]

I hate those piezo igniters. Those are the weakest link in the system.

I'd use a barbecue grill lighter.

 

[Mikey P]

That Auto Igniter Draper has should be on each and every LG.

By law.

 

[Desk Jockey]

I agree. Might as well sell them like that, its much more reliable and safer.

 

[Mikey P]

By law.

When mine blew I had neighbors all down the street running out looking for the 747..


If Nell0s and Cobb can do it, I'm sure Les could too.
I'd rather have 190 on my ten flow wand than that fooking bomb to worry about

 

[hogjowl]

Did yours actually blow up, or did it flash over under the heater when lighting?

 

[Mikey P]

Flashed out.
The thermostat was on high when it blew out and bone headed me stuck my fireplace lighter in there...POW!

gas was filling up the chamber for a while..

I hated worrying about my guys fvcking up worse.

 

[Desk Jockey]

If Nell0s and cobb

can do it, I'm sure Les could too.

Exactly my point. Those guys can build decent units, with Les's experience I would think he could build a better one.

 

[hogjowl]

Well then quit being so dramatic. Nobody but you heard it and the neighbors didn't come running down the street.

Unless your tank blew up, nobody but you knew about it.

Unless, of course, your screaming drew the attention of people around you.

Or the smell of your pants drew flies.

 

[Desk Jockey]

The junker's or Paloma hot water on our Steam Genie shook so hard and growled so loud once, it scared the sheet out of me. I thought it had cleared the air but I WAS wrong.

 

[Mike Draper]

I could bag on Les' machine all day...But I like the guy.

We will explore the 4HT Little giant heater instead.

120 degree rise at 1.87 gal/min. (off the top of my head and i'm drinking so don't hate)


Unless you have a pre heater- 240 degree H20 (sustained) can not be achieved.

View attachment 3702

I'll put $500 on it that I can sustain 240+ on a 12 flow TI wand under heavy cleaning conditions. My water comes out of my tap and into my tank at 43 degrees in the summer. However, I want my $500 to be matched and given to me if I can prove it.....

Mikey, You've known about the $35.00 spark re-igniter since you owned the Judson. 10 minutes is all it takes to hook it up, and you still didnt after the supposed explosion? My propane never reached higher than $1.22 a gallon last year. Propane always goes up in the winter and falls drastically in the summer when we need it most.

Mikey says "C'mon back Les, but I'm gonna keep re-posting videos of your business on my forum and making fun of them, gonna keep trashing your best friends to while I'm at it" Somehow I dont really think you want him back.

 

[Deleted member 51539]

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