Just getting started and it's going too well. Lots of questions.

[Mikey P]

Listen to Paul...

 

[dgardner]

instead of a new machine, you shudd mount an 18/20HP Kohler to run a 36/45 blower to your Bene System. Add a Little Giant heater to boost your already warm water

Did I misunderstand AJ's first post? I read that his brother bought a Bane, then bought a Powermatic Platinum 2001. I got the impression AJ bought the Platinum 2001. He said it made good heat (hit 280 he said).

 

[Spurlington]

I just re-read .. looks like the old boss the brother worked for had a Bane then the brother bought a Platinum ... right?

 

[GCCLee]

Is it unusual that I am confused now ?



Sheesh.......

 

[A.J.]

You need to do some more research before you go any farther your impression of pricing is way off.

I do not know Indiana Pro Clean. I did look at his web site. Looks clean and well organized.

He looks to be about 5 carpet trucks from his Facebook page. He also does Jan San. That is a lot of work at lower margins

I wouldn't call that made it big. I know lots of guy who run 1 - 1.5 trucks and make a lot more personally than us 4-5 truckers. True. I know I guy down in Jasper that has run a Butler for as long as I've been alive I think. It's just him and he clearly does very well.

You should find a mentor out of the area for university town cleaning. I think you might be off on your expectations of profit. Just wait till you drop a tranny and then a blower goes. Your $40 will be chump change. I have two friends in town that do this as a family business but I feel awkward asking for them to tell me how to be their competition. I do have a friend that works for the most well advertised apartment cleaner in town. I pick his brain as much as I can.

You never want to build a business where more than 10% comes from one client or 25% from one market segment.

Someone who is making most of their money in a short season in this business could get in trouble very quickly if something changes in the market. Years ago I landed a massive cleaning contract that was EASY money. 60% of my income. I got soft and quit picking up other jobs. I thought my life was ending when I lost it after a few years. Never again. Gotta keep that portfolio diversified

If you want good truck mounts call jondon in Roselle IL. If you are very mechanical look at butler units lots of top guys here run them. If you got big a kahonas get a big box truck like the big boys on here.

 

[A.J.]

I just re-read .. looks like the old boss the brother worked for had a Bane then the brother bought a Platinum ... right?

I worded that dumb. My brother bought the Platinum. He just can't focus to work for himself.

 

[A.J.]

Start !

These are part of your fixed monthly costs.
This is exactly why most contractors in any industry fail.

Long term planning worked into your costs.

When you buy a rental property, you have to figure out long term expenses like roof, foundation, furnace, on top of the yearly maintenance.
This is all worked into your monthly rent and should be saved in a separate account.

Any guy can figure out how much prespray or gas costs every month, what is your fixed replacement cost, advertising, retirement, disability.

Otherwise you will spend your life always looking for the next best thing...

I would add a couple more "costs"when it comes to pricing.

1. We need to replace van/equipment on a regular basis 7 years or whatever
so depending on which set up thats $500 month

2. We need emergency funds - $300 month at least
Its amazing how often you will find yourself saying " of all times for this to happen..."

3. When you were an employee you had all these invisible benefits that YOU now have to self fund.
Unemployment
Disability
Workers comp
Vacations
Medical
Retirement

Thats another $2k month

I know, I know you will worry about that stuff later....

Well I did a lot of math and I figured if i'm in the van, the company need to make $25-30 an hr. I need make $20 for myself. I went to put a bid in today for some apartments, they have people form 50 miles away come down and do 1 bed units for $60 with deodorizer and scotch guard. $10 for each added room. HOW? How do these guys make money? Maybe if they're lying about scotch guard and not spot checking whatsoever and getting 50 lined up in a row to do empty.....

I think I learn my new craft and go for people who want quality trustworthy work and a familiar face. I don't have any payments so if I get just one day a week of work that pays well I'll be fine. Dealing with a happy homeowner that doesn't fret the check and taking a little pride in a job well done sounds like a much better plan.

Don't think I'll need that dual wander.....

 

[Spurlington]

$25 - $30 an hr sounds like a nice side job pocket cash ... but dosent sound like enough to cover time spent building the business, depreciation cost, (wear n tear), office supplies, phone bill, insurance, income tax,van supplies etc.

Anything and everything that cost you money and time doing these jobs has to come out of your gross before net. I struggled building my business at anything less than $100 an hr.

Don't be afraid to collect enough to make a real profit. A lot of times customers don't go with the cheaper guy and if they do, you may find you could have done without them.

 

[Steve Toburen]

Don't be afraid to collect enough to make a real profit. A lot of times customers don't go with the cheaper guy...

Wow is that true. Lots of times customers are just bluffing when they say, "We're taking bids." In reality you may be the only person that answered the phone and actually showed up to look at the job!

Steve

PS the above shows the need to "widen your funnel" so you get more calls coming in. By sticking to your guns price wise you will not book every call but the ones you do will let you make a true profit. (And you won't be wasting time on no-profit work which will let you invest that time in marketing your business.)

 

[Shane Deubell]

Sounds like beer money...

I dont think the economics of running a business has sunk in yet.

 

[Mikey P]

If I had no mortgage, no vehicle payments, no employees and all related fees, no BFF, no pets, no hobbies that require more than a computer, no love for fine dining and no desire to ever retire, I'd be thrilled to earn $25 an hour 40 hours a week.



Assuming I lived in Porksville Alabama or some such shithole.

 

[A.J.]

If I had no mortgage, no vehicle payments, no employees and all related fees, no BFF, no pets, no hobbies that require more than a computer, no love for fine dining and no desire to ever retire, I'd be thrilled to earn $25 an hour 40 hours a week.



Assuming I lived in Porksville Alabama or some such shithole.

To be clear. $55 per hr. $20 for me, $30 for the biz.
Around here $20 per hr is good money. There is no way you're breaking $12 in this town without a degree. Everyone comes here for IU then stays. Chances are your waiter has a bachelors.

Also I think I'm sold on a Cobb. Your video on it is very helpful. I also like the El Diablo Diesel a lot too. Still weighing the options of course.

 

[A.J.]

Wow is that true. Lots of times customers are just bluffing when they say, "We're taking bids." In reality you may be the only person that answered the phone and actually showed up to look at the job!

Steve

PS the above shows the need to "widen your funnel" so you get more calls coming in. By sticking to your guns price wise you will not book every call but the ones you do will let you make a true profit. (And you won't be wasting time on no-profit work which will let you invest that time in marketing your business.)

Onc year I thought i'd get out of self employment and went to manage a storage complex. We were sometimes twice as high as anyone else and always full. When someone calls and prices checks, if you can get them to commit we had 80-90% conversion to an actual rental from them. If they like you, or in our case forced to be pushy (Why I quit), people will just say "okay" then write it off in their mind and not bother calling anyone else.

By the way, your links are great!

 

[hogjowl]

Veggie people aren't welcome here.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Quit now while you're ahead and save yourself a lot of grief.

 

[Steve Toburen]

By the way, your links are great!

Aw, shucks. Thanks, AJ.

Steve

PS Due to the "take-no-prisoners board vibe" here I seldom post links. But if ya like what I share, AJ, just go HERE. OR if you want one (free) "Make More Money" idea every Tuesday go HERE. (Now I need to duck and run for cover!)

 

[A.J.]

you rarely see me post in this room...because I'm a pi$$ poor bizman and don't belong here

but I'll share something with you....i started 25 years ago in the same trap you're thinking about getting into.
$50-$60-$75 dollar apts
You're not going to make what you think.
Those 50 lined up "like ducks in a row" in the student rentals won't go so smooth...painters and contractors will be in your way...they all won't be ready like they "promised"

Doors supposed to unlocked WON'T be
Carpets will be trashed.

It took me 8-10 years to get out of the "apt trap"........."need" the work, fear of losing the account if i raised prices was the "trap"

we do a 1/4 of the apts we used to do, cause 3/4s of them won't pay what they're worth...cause there's always some "hungry new guy" like YOU (and me when i started) willing to do great work for cheap

you mentioned you hate drywall finishing (me too, i sub out the lg jobs)
But do you hate painting too?
Seems you'd have all the right contacts in place ....and start up costs are down right cheap compared to TMs and tools /gear


not that that would matter, cause I'm "guessing" you'd likely fall into the same trap there ...thinking you could make money painting 2 bd rm apts for $two-fiddy a pop


..L.T.A.

I work with guys that do painting on apartments. They make INSANE money painting them in Aug. One of the guys works with us about 1 day a week or less because he make 30k profit in Aug then sits on his butt the rest of the year playing video games.
They claim they can get my the carpet contracts....

 

[A.J.]

Did I misunderstand AJ's first post? I read that his brother bought a Bane, then bought a Powermatic Platinum 2001. I got the impression AJ bought the Platinum 2001. He said it made good heat (hit 280 he said).

Yes I'm running the very old billion Hr platinum. After spending hrs reading on here and youtube learning about what makes a good machine and how they work I noticed my freaking air supply in the waste tank is sucking in a LOT of water. Wish I had noticed that before it was put in the van.... This thing has had an unbelievable low maintenance life I think. Long as I get my investment back out of it (less than 1k for the machine its self) ill be happy it got me started. I'll buy a new TM within a few months.

On the Subject of some assuming I can't math and I'm going to waste my time and go broke; I have no bills at all, never been nor will I ever go in debt. I can afford to get by on much less than $100 per hr. Right now my concern is getting experience and building a name and reputation. Then I can charge $100 per hr.

 

[TomKing]

Well I did a lot of math and I figured if i'm in the van, the company need to make $25-30 an hr. I need make $20 for myself. I went to put a bid in today for some apartments, they have people form 50 miles away come down and do 1 bed units for $60 with deodorizer and scotch guard. $10 for each added room. HOW? How do these guys make money? Maybe if they're lying about scotch guard and not spot checking whatsoever and getting 50 lined up in a row to do empty.....

I think I learn my new craft and go for people who want quality trustworthy work and a familiar face. I don't have any payments so if I get just one day a week of work that pays well I'll be fine. Dealing with a happy homeowner that doesn't fret the check and taking a little pride in a job well done sounds like a much better plan.

Don't think I'll need that dual wander.....

Is that $20 per hour with burden? If it is not then your needs is $25

Quiet honestly $20 per hour is only $41,600 annual. You can make that and a lot more just being a tech here in central Indiana. There are multi truck guys all over this board that have techs that earn that and much more.

You need to be looking for $40-$50 per hour earnings as a owner.

Your company needs to make $100-$150 hour to be profitable. Sometimes $200-$250

Looking at what you take and what the company takes is really kind of backwards.

You need to start with a budget of expected expenses and then go from there.

You then take your production rate, travel time and down time to begin to figure what a truck can produce daily.

That then becomes your base need to bill number.

From that you begin to build a menu of services.

Doing this keeps you from just pulling numbers out of the air for pricing and earnings.


Commercial work with restaurants and rentals apartments or property mangers gets messed up all the time.

It is never as easy as they describe.
You will show up and they will not be ready.
They will close early and not tell you.
They will turn you away even though the staff did a courtesy call reminder just 4-6 hours earlier.
You will not have the ability to charge the extra trip fee because you are new and you need the work
If you do this type of commercial work it will be a regular occurrence not the exception
Your $20 per hour will be shot.
It will be more like $10-$15 so you will be working for less than $30k per year.

How do you plan to pay yourself $20 per hour when you have to drive for callbacks, estimates, fixing your truck, cleaning your truck, doing you accounting, planning your marketing, making sales calls, organizing your shop and anything else misc.

If you are not earning enough to pay yourself for that time then you might just be getting yourself a minimum wage job.

My very first carpet cleaning job was a $400 residential cleaning in a mid level production neighborhood. I had a used truck and truck mount (not recommended in retrospect). I bet we have cleaned less than 50 apartments ever.

I attended SFS with Jondon before I even owned a truck mount. look at it here www.jondon.com

I sat next to Ivan a board member here. He asked me why not start with Restoration instead. He was right bigger profits.
I met Joe a multi truck company in another college town. He became a great friend. I met Tony at a MF event.

Both of those friends said stay away from apartments if you can. They live in college towns and have great multi truck companies but don't recommend it to a friend. Hum?

You might want to hold up go to a class. Keep a full-time job and clean evening and weekends to get started.
Meet some quality people out of the area.

Other companies employees are not a good source for advice as a owner. They most of the time have no idea how the total package works if they did they would be owners also.

My son once told me " Dad if they have 8 years experience in a multi truck company and they didn't promote them to a manager what makes you think they can be that for us?" He was right
Translated
If they know so much about running a company why don't they run one?

PS watching how to do stuff when you are inexperienced on Youtube allows you no ability to vet the person who created the content.
Want to know about how to
Fix truck mounts our expert Jim
What trucks can help a multi truck or one trucker Brian
Cleaning technique and small tool guru mike
Building a brand in a small town mark
Restoration on a small scale Richard or mike
How to tick people off Marty or myself do well at that.

There are others just a sample of what you can learn here.

Hope some of this helps.

 

[Mikey P]

 

[Mark Saiger]

That rocked Tom King!

 

[Mikey P]

Cleaning technique and small tool guru mike

wait a minute...

 

[Mark Saiger]

wait a minute...

LOL

 

[Steve Toburen]

This group does not deserve you, Tom. (Did your fingers hurt after typing all that?)

Steve

PS AJ, I can see you are aching to try doing apartments. And despite everyone's caution to the contrary you are likely to go that way. (As is your right.) I I understand why you would feel this way:

...I can afford to get by on much less than $100 per hr. Right now my concern is getting experience and building a name and reputation. Then I can charge $100 per hr.

So I say GO FOR IT! But please don't let yourself get "detoured off into the Dark Side" permanently. Dark Side? Yes, our industry is full of good guys living a high pressure, marginal, lower-middle-class existence while barely surviving from one low-priced apartment (or residential) phone call to the next. Some on here (including me) have been there- done that and we try and help others avoid this very sad business (and life) model.

Let me suggest a compromise, AJ. Go have fun with apartments. Learn the tricks of the trade. BUT at the same time become a regular here. AND start building a "parallel business model" like these guys are suggesting of premium priced work where you charge AT LEAST 100.00 per hour while delivering quality and service to match. I started out on the "cheap side" (20.00 to clean and living room and hall even though to be fair that WAS back in the 1970's!) and many on here did so too. BUT we didn't stay there (too many do) and you shouldn't either. Or at the very least...

Remember the great counsel you got here on MB and just like the Prodigal Son come back and put into practice what these smart and experienced people (who have NO agenda except your welfare) have been telling you!

 

[A.J.]

Thank you Tom! I can't imagine a better place to have gone for free solid advice.

You guys have made me rethink everything. There's a reason you're pros with enough time to waste here
The county over where I have a lot of ties (from growing up there and having my brother still live there) has no competition. A heavens best, and a small time hack. I think I can go the "Premium quality carpet cleaning" way with $100 an hr there quite easy. Here where I live a couple large restoration guys have that market. Always room for more I guess.

 

[Desk Jockey]

The county over where I have a lot of ties (from growing up there and having my brother still live there) has no competition. A heavens best, and a small time hack. I think I can go the "Premium quality carpet cleaning" way with $100 an hr there quite easy. Here where I live a couple large restoration guys have that market. Always room for more I guess.

Its both good and bad. If there is little competition its more than likely there is little demand for your services. You'll probably fair better where there is demand for your services, despite it being more competitive.

 

[A.J.]

This group does not deserve you, Tom. (Did your fingers hurt after typing all that?)

Steve

PS AJ, I can see you are aching to try doing apartments. And despite everyone's caution to the contrary you are likely to go that way. (As is your right.) I I understand why you would feel this way:
So I say GO FOR IT! But please don't let yourself get "detoured off into the Dark Side" permanently. Dark Side? Yes, our industry is full of good guys living a high pressure, marginal, lower-middle-class existence while barely surviving from one low-priced apartment (or residential) phone call to the next. Some on here (including me) have been there- done that and we try and help others avoid this very sad business (and life) model.

Let me suggest a compromise, AJ. Go have fun with apartments. Learn the tricks of the trade. BUT at the same time become a regular here. AND start building a "parallel business model" like these guys are suggesting of premium priced work where you charge AT LEAST 100.00 per hour while delivering quality and service to match. I started out on the "cheap side" (20.00 to clean and living room and hall even though to be fair that WAS back in the 1970's!) and many on here did so too. BUT we didn't stay there (too many do) and you shouldn't either. Or at the very least...

Remember the great counsel you got here on MB and just like the Prodigal Son come back and put into practice what these smart and experienced people (who have NO agenda except your welfare) have been telling you!

I think I've been throughly turned off on apartments!
My only nagging feeling is the family I go to church with; they don't advertise, all work part time And support 3 family's well from almost exclusively apartments. They dont advertise. They make half their yearly income in 1 month. Some people are certainly making money in apartments.
I have a friend that works for the most advertised apartment cleaner in town. He swears he's been with the owner during the summer and he will sometimes spend all day just picking up the phone to tell people he's to busy to take any work for the next few weeks. The guy isn't one to exaggerate.

Oh well

I only want 3 days a week of work anyways so I can probably make high end work better than apartments anyways.

 

[steve_64]

you can make a $100 an hour and more cleaning apartments.
you have to develope a system that allows you to get in and out quickly yet still do quality work.
apartments are a great place to learn your trade imo.
nobody around watching every move you make. you can experiment with different products on the same carpets and soiling issues. you dont have to worry about poisoning anyone when trying new products on smoke odors or disinfecting.

i didnt set out to be an apartment cleaner, it found me and i ran with it because i wanted to work.i dont regret a minute of it.

cleaning residential is a different experience and sometimes its hard to make the shift back and forth. with apartments i dont worry about dragging hoses around corners as much or dragging in dirt on my feet or from wrapping up hoses in the mud. just clean them on the next job. or about bumping baseboards with the wand or knocking pictures off the wall.
there is so much more to be concerned about with residential than apartments other than getting the carpet clean.

with all of that said, id rather clean upscale residential because it is more profitable in the long run.
you can up sale furniture and protector and deodorizers. you set your price versus being told what they will pay.

the problem is, you have to market better to find enough work to keep you busy. especially when you are new. apartments are like being on automatic. they call i go clean. no extra sales work. as a one man show its difficult to be a salesman. a manager, a mechanic, a tech all within a couple hours every day, over and over and over.

 

[Dolly Llama]

[QUOTE="steve rutherford, post: 4338140,
apartments are a great place to learn your trade imo.
er.[/QUOTE]


THAT I agree with
You'll see more situations in a year and how best to deal with them than 5 years of res

It also a perfect proving ground for different chems and side by side evaluations

LTA

 

[Captain America]

You should make at least 50% profit as a owner operated.......more after you pay off your equipment....
I make 70-80%..... No employees , equipment paid off....
Only expense is gas , oil changes, tires and powder preps ray.
I'm with steve you can make$$ at apts. no advertising.........
Get a zipper go to work make some pesos......