Latest with Harris Research vs. Mytee/All Holed Glides?

[John LaBarbera]

[quote="James Cooper":2viukq9z][quote="Mikey P":2viukq9z]James and the other idiots form ® who lurk here..


$900 was raised by me/mb/mikefesters to help GG with their lawyer's fee.


$900 got them 2 hours of face time.

approx 2.3 mil over 3 years from glide sales - yes , I did say donations were probably not significant , but just how much was spent on the fight from $$$ from glide sales ?? I would think several hundred thousand plus showing up to court , not counting the support from mytee and Jim B would leave them in better shape than what they are in now ??[/quote:2viukq9z]

I don't think they actually gave a shit about what harris could do, it appears to me they just said f it why pay all that money to the attorneys why not keep it. why not just change ownership when you absolutely have to, that way they are a moving target that can't be hit. this way it costs HR a ton of money and they can't do anything. to challenge HR on this I think it would probably take a $$$$500,000 war chest, good hell patent cases like this the legal fees go into the stratosphere that is why the bigger company almost always wins because they just out spend the other guys. if you are greenie and lisa why not keep the half mil be a moving target that can't be hit and hope like hell someone else kicks HR's ass on this. however the scenario below is most likely.

if I am not mistaken with john saying this has to go in front of a jury that means I think that all 12 members of the jury must decide there was infringement, which even in a slam dunk case is a scary proposition for the plaintiff. it also means HR could loose its patents on any of the at issue patents. what I predict happens is HR knows this and some sort of deal will be worked out with mytee weather its licensing or whatever. HR stands nothing to gain by the risks of going to court. mytee takes a risk too, so basically both sides attorneys know this full well and in my experience most are afraid to actually go argue the case in court. attorneys like to settle cases not strut their stuff down town. however for all of us MYTEE kick these guys asses!!!!! I want to see HR loose their patents and be out a half mil themselves with nothing to show for it. even if you have millions loosing a half mil to anyone still hurts, another thought is if mytee does work out some sort of deal it is to their advantage because with mytee having a licensing agreement in place and HR still holding the patents and prepared to defend them it effectively weeds out mytee's potential competition, maybe I should have been an attorney[/quote:2viukq9z]


I think what I said was pretty clear. I wish the best to Lisa and Greenie. They did all they could. Gross sales does noes allow for food, rent, gas, you know, all the things needed to live. So don't be misled by the supposedly high numbers, they can fool you. It's kind of like a CC making $100.00 per hr., sounds like a lot until you start to calculate the cost for machine, chemicals, insurance, repairs lease payment, helper, gas, taxes, machines ohh I already said that.

As far as Mytee goes, I didn't come all this way to settle on the Court house steps, there is no deal for me. Either the patents go into public domain or it's declared that I don't infringe. If Mytee actually infringes than I will stop making glides. It's really pretty simple. I just happen to believe their patents are not valid. I've felt this way from the beginning. Some may not understand my position on this because from a money point of view it doesn't make sense, but from a moral point of view it makes perfect sense to me.

 

[Bob Foster]

Fair questions , especially considering the fact that when the shit does hit the fan , each and every name of every individual buyer and distributor will be freely given to the court for HRI to contact at their convenience .

Cooper by that last remark are we as glide owners supposed to be scared or something? I hear Rob was on the chat line last night trying to scare people with that.

I can see the swarms of legal teams now pursuing everyone with a glide.

It's too late already to stop glide sales so what is the point of your last remark? It proves again what a bunch of morons you guys are.

 

[Guest]

Cooper by that last remark are we as glide owners supposed to be scared or something? I hear Rob was on the chat line last night trying to scare people with that.

I can see the swarms of legal teams now pursuing everyone with a glide.

It's too late already to stop glide sales so what is the point of your last remark? It proves again what a bunch of morons you guys are.

and just who gave you that advice Bob ?? Musta been the same guy that told folks not to show up for court and to continue to defy court orders .

Its never a pleasant thing to receive an legal notice form a company - but cleaners will be receiving them just as they have in the past and if you think distributors are not gonna suffer the wrath of HRI you are simply too thick to get it .

 

[Mikey P]

Were you also aware that Rob switched Lisa's and Jeff's passwords on ® so he could read their private messages?


What a great Admin you follow there Coop.


Shows loads of character on your part.

uh, hello?


No reply or because it was not your account hacked into, you're willing to over look that scumbag move?

 

[Guest]

I think what I said was pretty clear. I wish the best to Lisa and Greenie. They did all they could. Gross sales does noes allow for food, rent, gas, you know, all the things needed to live. So don't be misled by the supposedly high numbers, they can fool you. It's kind of like a CC making $100.00 per hr., sounds like a lot until you start to calculate the cost for machine, chemicals, insurance, repairs lease payment, helper, gas, taxes, machines ohh I already said that.

As far as Mytee goes, I didn't come all this way to settle on the Court house steps, there is no deal for me. Either the patents go into public domain or it's declared that I don't infringe. If Mytee actually infringes than I will stop making glides. It's really pretty simple. I just happen to believe their patents are not valid. I've felt this way from the beginning. Some may not understand my position on this because from a money point of view it doesn't make sense, but from a moral point of view it makes perfect sense to me.[/quote]

Thanks for stepping up and for sharing your thoughts on this case that has provided so many more questions than answers . I am glad you took the time to offer your insights and of course your willingness to fight the fight the right way . Good luck and please keep us all informed .

 

[Guest]

[quote="Mikey P":ypcmpczd]Were you also aware that Rob switched Lisa's and Jeff's passwords on ® so he could read their private messages?


What a great Admin you follow there Coop.


Shows loads of character on your part.

uh, hello?


No reply or because it was not your account hacked into, you're willing to over look that scumbag move?[/quote:ypcmpczd]

and just how do you know anything was hacked ?? maybe you should get Steve H . on the job to make that determination .

 

[Mikey P]

and Hitler never really killed any jews...


You're a good guy Coop, but for Bawb's sakes dude, pull your head out of your ass.


Rob is a POS and you must know it by now.

 

[Bob Foster]

Thanks for stepping up and for sharing your thoughts on this case that has provided so many more questions than answers . I am glad you took the time to offer your insights and of course your willingness to fight the fight the right way . Good luck and please keep us all informed .

That was about as thin in sincerity as most of the remarks made by the head goof over there at TMF.

"Fight the fight the right way".... GFY Cooper.

 

[Guest]

[quote="James Cooper":3ltk0xcc]
Thanks for stepping up and for sharing your thoughts on this case that has provided so many more questions than answers . I am glad you took the time to offer your insights and of course your willingness to fight the fight the right way . Good luck and please keep us all informed .

That was about as thin in sincerity as most of the remarks made by the head goof over there at ®.

"Fight the fight the right way".... GFY Cooper.[/quote:3ltk0xcc]

I think , judging by the views on this thread , and the lack of vocal support for your position , that most folks are of the position that you should GFY . Lots of folks are more than a little upset at the direction this case has taken , just as a solid majority are also grateful that John L of Mytee has taken this fight seriously and is fighting it the correct and right way .

So once again , on behalf of all the folks that will be receiving a letter from HRI , you GFY Bawb !

 

[Bob Foster]

I'm fully confident of my opinion on this issue and most people know that I have the exact opposite sympathies to what you are trying to characterize me with. John is also personally aware of my perspective on this issue.

It's not my place to comment on any of the particulars as I am respecting those who I side with in not meddling or offering speculation on their legal course. Others are deliberately remaining silent for just that reason. And again for that reason that is all I have to say about this issue.

So your effort to paint me as something that I am not just backfired on you as fast as you tried to pull it off. Idiot!

 

[Guest]

good night Bawb !

 

[joe harper]

You know....COOP....The last time you were over here..SLUMM-In... :roll:

I thought you were "Quick on your feet.." & witTy... 8)

I voted not to BAN..your ass...

I rarely go over to TMF....But I just went over there and read the thread on this issue..

"Pretty..SAD " :shock:

WILL SOME ONE JUST "86"....HIS ASS... :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!:

I Heard "BOTH" sides now....&.... he is full of SH@T.... :roll:

 

[Bob Foster]

Nope, Cooper will not be banned. I strongly disagree with him but unless he starts lying or something that really pisses Mike off (with good reason) he is welcome to come here and post no matter how much I tell him to go back to TMF or to GF himself.

To be able to speak your mind is the fundamental difference between them and us.

 

[dealtimeman]

i must have missed when the circus came back and dropped off coop. i see cooper is still a moron!


cooper you are a twofaced coward that cant even think for himself, i have read post you make on the dumbassboard and i am a 100% sure that you are gutless pussy!

i say this because you have no bone to pick in this fight yet you run your mouth like a donkey with his ass cut off, screamin and acusing about an issue you have no biz in!


please stop maiking yourself look like such a dumbass. please pretend like you have a succsesful company and get to work on that and stay out of something you cant even understand.

 

[Lefty724]

I am both a member here and over there. As Bob posted above, this is none of my (or our) business, but I always like to hear both sides of the story regardless of the situation.

Being now that I have met this person face to face, I think my unbiased opinion is shifting in one way because he is a stand up guy, and really cares about the trade and tries to help everyone as much as humanly possible! Good luck guys!!

 

[Mike Draper]

I think what I said was pretty clear. I wish the best to Lisa and Greenie.

:roll:

Uhhhh, yea! I definitely get this feeling form all of your post. I'm also really worried that the attorneys are going to show up on my jobs and make me quit using my glide right there on the spot.

In all actuality if the fantasy attorney letter did show up that would be the last of it. Anyone with common sense would know that they are not going to follow around all 20,000+ carpet cleaners to make sure that they are no longer using their green glide.

 

[joey895]

Nope, Cooper will not be banned. I strongly disagree with him but unless he starts lying or something that really pisses Mike off (with good reason) he is welcome to come here and post no matter how much I tell him to go back to TMF or to G

To be able to speak your mind is the fundamental difference between them and us.

Unlike over at TMF where all of my posts on this topic were edited to the point of them making no sense or deleted.

 

[Guest]

Nope, Cooper will not be banned. I strongly disagree with him but unless he starts lying or something that really pisses Mike off (with good reason) he is welcome to come here and post no matter how much I tell him to go back to ® or to GF himself.

To be able to speak your mind is the fundamental difference between them and us.

You can speak your mind on T M F , theres several folks giving their opinion on a thread just like this . Where I draw the line is other unrelated bs that is added to the debate.

I think its important that questions be asked . When people bury their heads in the sand , it allows folks to continue to take liberties inches at a time , until the difference between fact and pure bs are blurred .

I have always said GG made quality , albeit pricey goods . Their service has been good , which is key for them to be able to charge their high rates.

But according to the court documents , it paints an entirely different picture of the goings on in relation to the court proceeding and their committment to fighting it to win.

In other words , as Steve G has already said , they basically took the money and ran and left the fight and the financial committment of the fight to others .

Yeah , maybe you can ball a letter from HRI up and throw it away , but doesnt it piss you off that your private info as a customer of GG is given away freely when the pressure of possible legal consequences finally catch up to them ???

WHat about the chem who shirts and the fight for the little guy ?? It appears like the little guy that was financing GG , You and me and everyone that bought a glide got the short end of the glide .

 

[truckmount girl]

Okay, I'm back. In the course of this weekend I had some back and forth on my Blackberry with rafael and he agreed to post an email I sent him on the TMF thread because I can't post there. Evidentially he did not choose to do that, so I'll post it here and then answer some of the other points brought up in this thread, but give me some time. I've got a family to take care of and due to the upcoming hearing, I also have to be careful what I say here or on any forum.

First, my email to Raf in response to the TMF thread:


Raf,

For one thing those are gross sales, not net profit or net inconme. We never netted more than $40,000 in a single year. You don't realize that warranties, exchanges, give aways, etc. all go down a full priced sale, then are discounted and expensed from there. Also we sold a lot of things other than glides, those numbers are for the company as a whole, not just glides.

then the whole donation thing...geez we never asked for donations....EVER. I defy anyone to show otherwise. Mikey did some raffle/promotion thing with proceeds to go to us, and that brought $900. total. over the years people have sent \a little here, a little there, totaling at most $500. Our attorney was $300/hr. so you can see how far the donations went. We had an attorney in the beginning, but eventually had to drop her when she needed $30,000 cash up front to go to Utah for depositions. We didn't have it.

Greenie is not an owner anymore, so all of this aint hurting him, it's hurting me. I am still doing everything possible to fight this. i've sold the business and now work for it as an employee. The injunction is against jeff and i personally, not against greenglides. I couldn't turn over customer or distributor lists to anyone if I wanted to because I no longer own the business and they are not mine to give.

Those posts on TMF....I don't understand why these guys are doing this to me and my family. I've nevber said a bad word about Nick or Rob.

More to come.

Take care,
Lisa

 

[harryhides]

Yeah , maybe you can ball a letter from HRI up and throw it away , but doesnt it piss you off that your private info as a customer of GG is given away freely when the pressure of possible legal consequences finally catch up to them ???

I suggest to you that in this day and age there is nothing "private" about a Company's name and address.

James, anyone can claim that "lots of folks" have the same concerns as you but unless you can produce some evidence like a very long thread of fellow CC'ers supporting your view, it's really just the opinion of one person - you.

 

[Guest]

Yeah , maybe you can ball a letter from HRI up and throw it away , but doesnt it piss you off that your private info as a customer of GG is given away freely when the pressure of possible legal consequences finally catch up to them ???

I suggest to you that in this day and age there is nothing "private" about a Company's name and address.

James, anyone can claim that "lots of folks" have the same concerns as you but unless you can produce some evidence like a very long thread of fellow CC'ers supporting your view, it's really just the opinion of one person - you.

what do you want , names on a class action suit ( could be a real possibility ) ??? Theres plenty of folks pissed from the last time names were given out , and this time especially when even more facts come out.

 

[Guest]

Lisa I posted your post over at T M F . You are not banned , and anytime you want to you are welcome to post . If you have any trouble pm me .

 

[truckmount girl]

Thanks James.

As for the reason i can't post there, that is answered in my next email to Raf:

Hi Raf
No problem. I don't want you to speak for me just post copy and paste.

As for why I can't post - I had an account there and had signed in and posted several times. They deleted my password and changed it in order to read my pm's. (I had no pm's other than to rob) after that I wouldn't accept their offer of a new password.

I'm a big girl I can handle an backlash. I know I've done the best I can to handle the suit and give good service and products to my customers. Its not been easy and differences between jeff and I only made it harder for me. I've been through hell and back in the last few years...but I'm happier now than I've ever been.

I'm writing this on my phone at the beach. My husbands family is having a bonfire. I won't be able to get to the puter until tomorrow afternoon.


Thanks and take care
Lisa
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Take care,
Lisa

 

[truckmount girl]

James,

In the early days of the lawsuit we were asked for our business records by HRI in order to determine sales and income. We complied, under the advice of our attorney, who explained that she would have the records marked confidential (and they were). Which she said did not allow them to be used for any other purpose. They (HRI and their attorneys) used the records to contact customers (after we had lost our attorney) which we felt was a violation of the confidentiality, we then filed a complaint in court and with the Utah State bar, but it went nowhere.

The protection of customer's personal information is and always was deeply important to me.

There are well over 100+ court documents in this case, James. If TMF wants to be conscientious about telling the whole story, they should post them all. there is far more to this than the document posted there would suggest. The miscarriage of justice in our case was (and continues to be) so greivous that a famous patent expert volunteered and ghost-wrote a 100+ page document for me that the court found compelling, but too late. I was not able to get the help I needed to compose a response to their request for summary judgment becauseI did not know court cases and history and all the complexities of patent and civil law. the time to respond came and went (there was no "court date" we missed for that, by the way) The only court dates I ever missed were on the contempt issue and i notified the court and HRI's attorney of my inability to attend.

I've done, and continue to do, the best i can to fight this with my limited knowledge, time and resources. I'm not ashamed of anything. I would have liked to see you or any other person do better given my circumstances and resources. You weren't there, you haven't been there the last 6 years. You haven't even read all the court documents which don't even scratch the surface.

I know you don't know me well, but from what you do know of me, do you honestly think I'm like that?

Take care,
Lisa

 

[renegade_cowboy]

Lisa I posted your post over at T M F . You are not banned , and anytime you want to you are welcome to post . If you have any trouble pm me .

Its TMF, no one gets banned, they just use a program so you cant access your account. There are some good people over at TMF, I just wished they realized how shady Rob, his son and a few other are. They have some serious ethical issues over there. Lets be honest who really respects those clowns anyways.

James your a good gopher for them, hope you're atleast getting a reach around from them when you all hang out.

 

[Guest]

I dont know all the complexities of the case , but thats why people are asking questions .

You guys told the courts that almost all your income was acheived from the sales of glides . You guys also tols us time and time again you priced all your products at premium prices to ensure you could afford to stay in business and not be like the brokedick carpet cleaners of the industry . Then , out of all the sales that were made , you guys couldnt afford to put back 75 g's or so a year to finance a defense to fight HRI ?? out of 2.3 gross thats a drop in the bucket considering you guys were the primary employees of GG , a self stated mom and pop operation.

I really truly dont understand .

Didnt any distributor offer assistance in your fight against HRI , didnt any witnesses give you guys enough info to keep them off of you guys so you could continue to sell glides legally as Mytee has ??

Any pertinent infoyou would wish to post on TMF I would be wiling to post it for you .

 

[truckmount girl]

I dont know all the complexities of the case , but thats why people are asking questions .

You guys told the courts that almost all your income was acheived from the sales of glides . .

At what period of time are we talking here, James?

You guys also tols us time and time again you priced all your products at premium prices to ensure you could afford to stay in business and not be like the brokedick carpet cleaners of the industry .

Sure, but the expenses of constantly developing and refining new models and products was astronoimical. many products with such a limited market that profits would never be seen. It was a matter of friction with jeff and I. We did not agree on the growth and direction of the business and the business often operated at a loss as a result of this.

Then , out of all the sales that were made , you guys couldnt afford to put back 75 g's or so a year to finance a defense to fight HRI ?? out of 2.3 gross thats a drop in the bucket considering you guys were the primary employees of GG , a self stated mom and pop operation.

There are plenty of multi-million dollar companies that operate on a loss. Gross sales mean nothing. it's how much you keep. I submitted tax returns for all years, including '08 (they lost them or can't find them) we didn't even take salaries from the company, so the net income is what we had left to live on. if you saw our home, bank accounts, anything else you would know we were living very frugally and had no reserves.

I really truly dont understand .

I know you don't. It's obvious from what you say and imply.

Didnt any distributor offer assistance in your fight against HRI , didnt any witnesses give you guys enough info to keep them off of you guys so you could continue to sell glides legally as Mytee has ??

No. AND i WOULD NOT HAVE ACCEPTED IT BECAUSE i DON'T FEEL IT'S THEIR RESPONSIBILITY. I paid for Cobb's representation, he paid his expense for coming to Cali for deposition.
(Sorry, caps lock) as for witnesses, sure there is plenty of info to knock the patents down, but it's not that simple. Drafting the paper(s) required to effectively quelch a patent, even a bad one like these, is an art form and not easily accomplished by a carpet cleaner with a high school education and no background in law or patents. My patent expert wrote an exquisite paper, but the court deemed it was too late. There is a reason why patent attorneys are the highest paid attorneys of all and the average patent lawsuit that goes to court costs 3 mil. Generally, the party with more money that can hold out the longest wins. facts have little bearing on the issues.

Any pertinent infoyou would wish to post on ® I would be wiling to post it for you .

You may post any of my responses here there, as long as you post them in full and in context. however, I think there is a little more going on there than meets the eye. I get frustrated just reading the crap that's being said.

Take care,
Lisa

 

[truckmount girl]

PS- The injunction included all products offered on our website, including hose, jets, everything. Not just glides. they got an injunction that said their patent covered vac hose, solution line, jets, checkvalves, etc. That's how bogus it was and still is.

Take care,
Lisa

 

[Ken Snow]

Here, here Lisa! Our retail showrooms will gross around 4.2 million down from over 9 million in the late 90's. People might think that is a lot of money, but our breakeven is almost 8 million wih our brick and mortoer oand overhead structure (actually we have mitigated a lot of that but our BE now is still over 6 mill).

 

[truckmount girl]

Also James, pulling down a bad patent is best done by experts because if it is unintentionally fuddled you can make it harder to take down later. There were maneuvers we could have taken, a patent exam through the USPTO, that would have been far easier and cheaper to bring the patents down, but Drieaz and Mytee's attorneys dissuaded us from that because if we did not play it perfectly (and remember, I'm a carpet cleaner, not a patent attorney) it could jeopardize their cases. So we did not pursue those paths in deference to them.

Answer me directly and honestly here James. Do you really think I'm that kind of person? Do you really think I don't care?

Take care,
Lisa