Lisa Wagner, if you have a minute

Mikey P

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I dont want to take you away from Tea Time with your dear friend Barry OBongo but I just have to ask you a question...

In your latest Blog post you said
"HOW TO HANDLE TUFTED RUGS:

If you own a tufted rug, and you’ve bought it from a reputable rug merchant, you will likely have no issues taking it to be professionally cleaned. Do not clean the rug yourself. These rugs take considerably longer to dry, and you open up yourself to a whole host of problems (and mess) if you try a D-I-Y clean.

These rugs also should never be cleaned in the home setting. Though there may be no warning signs on the rug itself, you open yourself up to potential damage to the floor underneath (yellowing, dye transfer, latex powder residue).

If you are a professional rug cleaner, these are the things you need to take into consideration, because today’s tufted rugs hold many more challenges than those from even a few years ago.


Now dear friend of mine, wouldn't you agree that if the hot water extraction fag were to lay a piece of plastic between the tufted rug and the floor, carpet, wood, tile or otherwise that "Steam Cleaning" a POS, worn out stanky, Ikea special would not hurt a damn thing?


Lets say the Tufted was in sound shape and just needed a good front and back vacuuming and a HWE rinse to brighten things up and make it smell froofy for while. I would think even the flamiest of Rug Fruits would concede that if done properly the world will see another day.

Wouldn't you?
 

ruff

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Re: Lisa Wagnor, if you have a minute

Last time this subject was discussed Lisa gave us the clear impression that:

"Though the world may see another day, it is still a crime against humanity."

:p :arrow: :idea:
 

ACE

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Mike Hughes
Re: Lisa Wagnor, if you have a minute

:lol: It’s Tough Crowd here.

I have been wondering to myself why you are publishing Lisa’s idiotic insights into rug scrubbing.
Her articles are remedial at best. Anyone who gain any knowledge form a Lisa W. article has no business being in this industry.

Really you can't pit wash the hell out of a tuffed rug?

What, Urine can damage wool?

Huh, UV can damage rugs?

Did you know potted plants should maybe not be placed on that priceless area rug?
 

ruff

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Ofer Kolton
Re: Lisa Wagnor, if you have a minute

Also Mike,
You did not disclose that at ICS there was quite an action full verbal sparring (to say the least) between our own Randy Hyde and the O Bongo dude.

And I thought that all the action was on this board :!:

Back to your original post: From my experience what sometime can happen is uneven pull of some of the loops (by the van's strong vacuum) that were not attached well by the glue.
However, that has a good chance of happening in a plant setting as well.
I guess in the plant one can correct all the damage without the client seeing or being aware of it.
 

Dolly Llama

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Re: Lisa Wagnor, if you have a minute

Ofer Kolton said:
Also Mike,
You did not disclose that at ICS there was quite an action full verbal sparring (to say the least) between our own Randy Hyde and the O Bongo dude.

damn...I might have to go look

I can see the headlines "Carnival barker vs Hyde

All my money's on Hyde !gotcha!


..L.T.A.
 

ruff

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O'Bongo is definitely............................something......................... else.

Needless to say, Randy is no longer on his top 25 list.
Actually, he may be just a tad after Lisa's dog above.

Randy may be raiding his own (secret) beer closet as we speak.
 

Mikey P

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rugfag cat fight...

Oriental Rug Cleaning Question...
Posted By Joe DeSouza on 11/7/2011 at 8:18 PM

What is the recommended cleaning frequency for rugs? Would it be the same as carpet (12-18 months)? I try to convince my clients to clean their rugs while i'm doing their carpet, but most of them tell me they would rather wait until next time - i.e. every 2yrs...I want to educate them on proper cleaning intervals but have not found any references to cleaning frequency....

Thanx!

Joe


Re: Oriental Rug Cleaning Question...
Posted By Lisa Wagner on 11/7/2011 at 9:54 PM

What I tell my clients is this... rug under regular use needs to be washed every 18 months.

If they are vacuuming every other week (using a canister vacuum or upholstery attachment because they only need to "dust" the surface fibers), they can extend it to 2 years.

If they have kids and pets, definitely 18 months.

If the rugs are wool, these look better longer because they have more "pockets" to hide soil in. Synthetic rugs need to be cleaned more often because they ugly faster - so those are usually annually (another reason why cheaper rugs end up costing more in the long run).

If they wait until the wool rug looks dirty, they've waited too long, because then it has pounds of soil in it.

So I have them take the rug and flip it over and run a vacuum slowly over the corner from the back to see if anything shakes out. If they see sizable dust, then it's time to clean.

Hope that helps,
Lisa


Re: Oriental Rug Cleaning Question...
Posted By Barry O'Connell on 11/8/2011 at 9:03 AM

Hello,
They say the real test of a person’s intelligence is how much they agree with you. If that is true Lisa is one of the smartest people I know. As soon as I read your question I was going to recommend the vac on the back test. Dusty Roberts of Rug Badger has a video out called The Six Second Challenge. He tales a Sanitaire and a Rug Badger and runs them in place on the back of a rug to compare how much dirt shakes out in 6 seconds. Of course the Rug Badger creams the Sanitaire but that is not the point here. If you just do the back with a Sanitaire for 6 seconds t is a dramatic test that shows the customer how dirty her rug is. For most dramatic results put white paper under the rug to show the dirt off better. If it is a room size rug you only need to flip over a corner. Your Expert Advice to your customer is look at what came out in 6 seconds imagine how much dirt would be released by a proper cleaning.
I like to emphasize that dry particulate matter is everything that you track in off the street. It often includes sand, grit, broken glass etc... that can drastically shorten the life of the rug. Then you can also talk about bugs, allergens and so on. If she still says no it is probably a money issue but with this simple and quick test you can up your income considerably.
Best wishes,
Barry O’Connell
http://www.SpongoBongo.com



Re: Oriental Rug Cleaning Question...
Posted By Scott Warrington on 11/8/2011 at 10:59 AM

One point that has not been made is that the cleaning frequency should probably vary with the use. The same consideration you might give to carpet in the entry way compared to cleaning carpet in the guest bedroom or formal dining area.

For rugs in areas that get steady use, I agree with Lisa's statements about 12 months, 18 months or 24 months. If there is little traffic, rugs may be able to go longer between cleanings if there is regular vacuuming to remove the dust and pollution that settles from the air even when there is no traffic.

I know of one rug expert who takes his lightly used rugs outside after the first heavy snow fall each year and places them upside down in the snow for a while to freshen them up. He does a full cleaning every 3 years or so. That have lasted many years and still look beautiful.

Scott Warrington
Director of Technical Support
Interlink Supply / Bridgepoint


Re: Oriental Rug Cleaning Question...
Posted By Randy Hyde on 11/8/2011 at 11:22 AM



I believe cleaning frequency should determined with use & soil not a cookie cutter standard. Obviously a rug in a formal lightly used dinning room doesn't need to be cleaned often as entry,family or kitchen rug we try to train the owner what to look for and when to determine their rugs are dirty.
I've gotten a fair number of new clients from a particular competitor that aggressively pushes "maintenance" cleaning.


As far as the badger test Vs. sanitaire Dusty used the sanitaire improperly with the handle locked up forcing the beater too low to dust properly.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXdoBMIy ... re=related
Modified By Randy Hyde on 11/8/2011 at 12:20 PM

Re: Oriental Rug Cleaning Question...
Posted By Barry O'Connell on 11/8/2011 at 6:14 PM

Something sounds a little fishy with your comments Randy. I wonder why lowering the beater bars would make dusting less efficient. By lowering the beater bars they would hit harder and increase the effectiveness. But maybe you are right, I guess we could test it. I mean really this logic makes about as much sense as buying a Rug Badger and not getting the dusting grids. Who would do that?


Re: Oriental Rug Cleaning Question...
Posted By Randy Hyde on 11/8/2011 at 7:03 PM

Barry that’s the difference between those of us that work in this industry & clean rugs daily for a living and those that only come here to play.

To answer your question it depends on a few things; how high or low the bar is set on the sanitaire, the condition of the belts, and the type of rug but most importantly a sanitaire isn’t used in a locked up position like that it pushes the bar to close to the rug and bogs down. I would expect Dusty to know this or maybe he knew exactly what he was doing in his "test". Perhaps Lisa Wagner can chime in they use Sanitaire Vac in their shop to dust is that how you use them Lisa I don't believe she owns a belt style duster?

As far as the grids gota make the upsell .. We have the grids so you must be talking about someone else? We find the grids damage the pile this is visible with a 10X microscope and some rugs like a 120 year old farghan Sarouk with dry rot & old stabilizing it's simply asking for trouble.




Re: Oriental Rug Cleaning Question...
Posted By Barry O'Connell on 11/8/2011 at 9:46 PM

I would love to hear anything Lisa has to say. I think she is one of the outstanding people in this industry. I understand she added a Rug Badger to the seminar that she and Jim Pemberton teach.
As for your old Sarouk, I guess that must be wha most of us call a Faraghan or also a Farahan unless you meant your rug was "Far Gone". Obviously it is not a candidate for dusting with a Rug Badger. I can't imagine where you get ideas like that. Maybe you don't know but there is a interesting new process for repairing dry rotted wool rugs. It involves the application of Barry Juice and then supplementing the foundation. If you need the name of a good repair shop that can handle this sort of work I would be glad to recommend one. I have some outstanding repair shops on my List of the Best Rug Cleaners and Restorers. We have two shops in your area but they are not using the Barry Juice treatment as far as I know.
Best wishes,
Barry O'Connell
www.SpongoBongo.com


Re: Oriental Rug Cleaning Question...
Posted By Barry O'Connell on 11/8/2011 at 9:58 PM

To everyone else please do not follow Randy Hyde's example. I don't think you need a microscope to know that dry rotted rugs should not be aggressively dusted with anything whether it is a carpet beater, Sanitaire, Rug Badger or Moore style duster. When a customer trusts you with a rug you have a responsibility to give it proper care. I can only hope it was Randy's own rug that he damaged.
Best wishes,
Barry O'Connell
www.SpongoBongo.com
Modified By Barry O'Connell on 11/8/2011 at 10:44 PM

Yikes! Beatings over beating rugs....
Posted By Lisa Wagner on 11/8/2011 at 10:55 PM

Okay... my 2 cents since you all asked. =)

We have dusted rugs with Sanitaires for decades. We remove the brushes and replace them with metal inserts, we use the narrow concave bar design rather than the standard round one - which was designed for rug vacuuming. It's kind of a figure 8 style from the side view.

We set it at NORMAL - not low. The point is to SHAKE out the soil from the back of the rug, and not to brush and pull up the dust.

We do use the Badger in our workshops right now, because I want cleaners to see the options. They get to test regular vacuums (so far no Sanitaire, but some powerflite and others) and see the difference.

We had a Badger in our plant for a month and did side by side testing. Some rugs, the Badger did better, some the Sanitaire did better, but BOTH could pull more soil out AFTER the other in both cases.

This is because each dusts differently. Badger beats/smacks the rug, Sanitaire vibrates/shakes the rug, and the 3rd dusting option (Auserehlian air compression BLASTS the rug). And each of these 3 will get more out after one another because none of them are doing it the same way, and especially on tightly woven rugs (like Sarouks), you ain't getting all the soil out no matter what you use.

And... if there is any OILY soil in there - it also ain't coming out with dusting - it's got to be washed.

The metal grates (similar to what is used to smooth out a ball field before a game) are in my opinion too heavy and too aggressive for softer pile, or looser weave rugs. I've seen marks made on the face of a 90-line Chinese with the grate, and the heavy Badger on top of it, that were permanent damage marks.

I tend to opt for the plastic grates - or to go without.

The pros with the Badger are that you will cover more area in much less time, and beat more in that time. So you get more dirt out in the same time if you are an owner operator. It will boost your productivity and profit if you are a one-man show, because you vacuuming slowly with a Sanitaire as the owner is no different than tearing up a hundred bucks an hour.

Some of the cons with the Badger are, not everyone can afford it (it runs about $3500) - it's not ideal for every rug, and it's darn loud (my weaving gals hated it when we had it because it was so loud - but guys who love the Vortex because it's loud will like this too). (Tim Allen "tool time" grunt-grunt here!)

My plant is a bit different, because we encourage our clients to wash their rugs regularly, so we are not getting in those rugs with 22 years of soil build up.

One more note - all rugs need to be dusted AFTER the wash also. There will always be fine dust that can be removed after the wash, because getting a rug fully wet, and especially those tighter weave fully depressed asymmetrical knotted rugs, more will come out with the full wet wash no matter how your pre-wash dusting is done.

Hope that answers some things from my end - and again all only my opinion.

If there was to come out a mini-Badger that was quieter, and a third of the price, I'd get it because that's what we need - something lighter that whacks and shakes. =)

Lisa


Re: Oriental Rug Cleaning Question...
Posted By Barry O'Connell on 11/8/2011 at 11:18 PM

Wow Lisa that is really cool. But I get to say you are wrong about something. I realize this may be the first time you were ever wrong LOL
Dusty has had what he calls "The Lisa Project" that you inspired. On the New York City Rug Tour he introduced a smaller, lighter, quieter, less expensive RugBadger. He has a contest to name the new machine and I understand tha Babybadger, MiniBadger, and "The Lisa" are tied for first place.
But even with the new machine do not dust damaged dry rotted rugs even if you have a microscope next to your rug pit and a bug up your ___.
Best wishes,
Barry O'Connell
www.SpongoBongo.com


Re: Oriental Rug Cleaning Question...
Posted By K.O. (Shorty) Glanville on 11/9/2011 at 12:47 AM

Oh my goodness gracious, I never realized that sarcasm was so rife amongst the rug


I couldn't see where this Randy Hyde bloke said that he actually damaged a rug..........

"We find the grids damage the pile this is visible with a 10X microscope and some rugs like a 120 year old farghan Sarouk with dry rot & old stabilizing it's simply asking for trouble.

But I can see his advice in where one would be asking for trouble.

Now it's someone else's turn to chuck it.

I use a pile lifter prior to vacuuming, prior to washing, then pile lifter and vacuum again after drying.

Am I doing something nasty oh great rug .

I look forward to some constructive criticism.

Have a great night, best wishes and sweet dreams.

Shorty down under.
Modified By Admin on 11/9/2011 at 9:14 PM

Re: Oriental Rug Cleaning Question...
Posted By Paul Lucas on 11/9/2011 at 12:50 AM

Hi Scott

I believe that your friend's method of rug cleaning is called a Snow Job.

Keep it clean

Paul Lucas


Re: Oriental Rug Cleaning Question...
Posted By Randy Hyde on 11/9/2011 at 1:01 AM

LOL, it’s nice you are reversing your position on dusting grids and are now saying you shouldn’t use a dusting grid! FYI,... They make microscopes for carpet cleaners bet many here like me have them don't expect you to know this since you are NOT in the carpet/ rug cleaning business. Here one at interlink supply
http://interlinksupply.com/index.html?s ... opes&go=Go


I agree Barry, don’t listen to me rather listen closely to Barry and his ignorance for this industry. A guy that’s not a cleaner, never owned or started a rug cleaning business and has little real world rug cleaning experience? Barry's a guy that makes data bases systems for politicians for a living this unique experiences that qualifies in his own words “Create a rug cleaning standard” for all of you to follow just a little hubris don’t you think Barry..LOL! I’d be offended if you where someone with real cleaning experience and knowledge but you’re not, good, god you don’t even know how to operate a vacuum properly!


So Barry (not a cleaner)is now saying Lisa Wagner (who's been in this business her whole life) is wrong..nice!


As for the mini whatever it's going to be called.. great! There's a need for something smaller and lighter weight than a badger




Lisa....
Posted By Joe DeSouza on 11/9/2011 at 8:41 AM

I have a sanitaire also as you described...how did you modify yours? Im assuming that somehow you removed the brushes and inserted a metal rod in it's place? Is this something my vacuum repairman can do?

Thanks!

Joe


Re: Oriental Rug Cleaning Question...
Posted By Barry O'Connell on 11/9/2011 at 9:43 AM

Hi Randy,
After 15 years of pleasant conversation on a number of Boards you now have all sorts of objections and complaints about me. Now I have to wonder if after about 15 years you just discovered your objections to me or does it have anything to do with you being dropped from my list;

Guide to the Best Oriental Rug and Carpet Cleaners and Restorers of Oregon
http://www.persiancarpetguide.com/sw-as ... regon.html

You see if someone I had respect for like Atiyeh Bros. or Ray-Burt’s said these things it would be one thing but when you attacked me I expect it and understand it.

As far as your claim of grid damage either you did or you didn’t. But I am not really that interested in your answer because I am not sure that I can take you at your word with anything you say about RugBadger.
I will also note that I am a man with many failures and weaknesses and yes I have designed databases. But when you attack me instead of coming clean on the question that is an Ad Hominem attack. That speaks to your credibility and integrity. I guess it is no surprise why you got booted off the list.
Yours truly,
Barry O’Connell
www.SpongoBongo.com



Re: Oriental Rug Cleaning Question...
Posted By Randy Hyde on 11/9/2011 at 12:03 PM

For 15 years you never showed up pretending to be a cleaning expert and shamelessly whoring badger all over the place

You started this Barry! I made a simple comment regarding the badger test Vs. sanitaire “Test” You took it to something else?

Since you are not a member of this industry I suggest you go back years ago on this forum, Mikey’s board and on Dusty’s own rug hub while I was the admin! I said the same about the a badger & sanitaire then,nothing has changed! Lisa has a similar opinion and now Lisa’s wrong too? Only Barry is right a guy with a website, little practical cleaning experience that doesn’t work in this industry.. is this about right?

Additionally , If one search you post history here on ICS and other boards they will find you have made ignorant & insulting statements about this industry, it’s members, cleaning chemicals, equipment. Including but not limited to ; Ellen Amerkan, Aaron Groseclose, Mike Pailliotet, Tom Monahan, joe polish, Howard Partridge…and you’re not even a cleaner or part of this industry, you haven’t earned that right.

Your trusted resource list is you property and you have every right to determine who you want or don’t on it. But inclusion or removal such as mine can be for any or no reason it’s based on your whim, specifically your ego! You pulled me after I said that I didn’t go to your NY rug shindig because I didn’t want to be part of Dusty/ Barry ego stroke. As for Atiyeh Brothers & Ray-Burt’s both are well respected companies both are members of the newly formed ARCS I refer business to them on occasion you would do well to keep them on your list.

Am I upset about being removed.. Not by the time it happened. You have been trying to use your resource list as leverage on me for some time privately in e-mails and to a lesser degree publicly. I would rather not be on your list for this reason and as others have pointed to me that you have people on your list now that steam clean, shampoo oriental rugs in home? Your list meant something to me in the past it was full of experts it doesn't anymore it's price is a badger! I’ve never really derived business from your list it usually brings out the “Pseudo” collector interested in getting their craigslist, salvation army finds identified but don’t want/cant to pay for cleaning.


Best of luck


Re: Oriental Rug Cleaning Question...
Posted By Richard Chavez on 11/9/2011 at 12:48 PM

Wow, a rug snob fight, anyone bring some popcorn? LOL

The harrow is a poor choice for a filter grate, the thing is so sharp we only move it with gloves on.

A plastic alternative would be a much better choice, especially when dealing with higher value rugs.

P.S.
Oh no offense meant by the "Rug Snob" inference....well unless the shoe fits.

;)


Re: Oriental Rug Cleaning Question...
Posted By Barry O'Connell on 11/9/2011 at 12:49 PM

Hi Randy,
I see you keep repeating that I said Lisa was wrong. It is either a question of intellect or integrity. Should I give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are a little dim? What I said was:
“But I get to say you are wrong about something. I realize this may be the first time you were ever wrong LOL”.

The reality whether or not you can or will grasp it is that I was joking. That is what “LOL” means (LOL Lots of laughs). Lisa is a very dear friend and it is wrong of you to try to make something of it when it is a joke between friends. Maybe it is stupidity but I really think it is a lack of integrity. There is not much point in debating things with a man who is a fool or a liar.
With disdain,
Barry O’Connell
www.SpongoBongo.com

Modified By Barry O'Connell on 11/9/2011 at 12:53 PM

Re: Oriental Rug Cleaning Question...
Posted By Randy Hyde on 11/9/2011 at 2:10 PM


I get your attempt at revisionism & call me names if it makes you feel better...go ahead get it out of your system! Just the facts from me Barry, are you still saying a badger is better hands down than a sanataire in every situation or not and no damage can happen from the grates? Do you think dusty can do a re-test using the vacuum properly?


No disdain here Barry! In fact i'm still going to refer people to spongo bongo i'm even going to keep the link to your site on my web site! This fool, liar or person with a lack of intellect or integrity still has some respect for you. I seem to be in good company since you called Aaron & Ellen Amerkan a cheats. Anyway, I choose to believe for what ever reason you have lost your senses but I hope you will someday make a full recovery.

Best Wishes


Stay out of the way Chavez you don't want to get hurt with us swinging our man purses around :-) Crap...even chavez get's it with the steel rug grates!





Re: Oriental Rug Cleaning Question...
Posted By Richard Chavez on 11/9/2011 at 2:32 PM

"even chavez get's it with the steel rug grates!"

"Even" dang I rate an "even"?

Thanks a lot Randy...Rug Snob!
;)


Re: Oriental Rug Cleaning Question...
Posted By Barry O'Connell on 11/9/2011 at 3:23 PM


Hi Randy,
The problem here is that you go for the kill in these arguments and then you go over the top. You present the classic “Strawman Argument”. You wrote:

"Just the facts from me Barry, are you still saying a badger is better hands down than a sanataire in every situation or not and no damage can happen from the grates?"

This is a dishonest statement. When you say “are you still saying” you are being untruthful. I never said it so how can I still be saying it. If you don’t get my point Google “Strawman Argument”. Wikipedia says:

“A straw man is a component of an argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.”

I don’t think the RugBadger is best in all situations. I never said that. I recommend a wide array of dusting techniques. We do not really disagree on all that much. I think you have it in for Dusty and you go over the top in constantly trying to put him and his product in a negative light. We got along just fine until I dared to disagree with you. Then you pull out every smarmy dirty trick in the book to win. I wish you would quit trying to win at all costs and instead just tell the truth in a fair and balanced manner.
As for Ellen and Aaron, just yesterday I was praising their course as a great choice for some people. When you say I called them, “a cheat” that is an untrue mischaracterization of my position. Aaron knows exactly where I stand and we remain friends even where we disagree. I was quite touched that they invited me to speak at their upcoming training session in January. I can’t go but it was nice to be asked.
Yours truly,
Barry O’Connell
www.SpongoBongo.com



Re: Oriental Rug Cleaning Question...
Posted By Barry O'Connell on 11/9/2011 at 3:37 PM

I also need to point out that dihydrogen monoxide has damaged more rugs than all the dusting systems ever created. I found out from a trusted source that not only have you used dihydrogen monoxide but you continue to use this dangerous liquid and regularly satureate rugs with it. Despite the dangers of dihydrogen monoxide I have never criticized you for using it. I bet if truth were know you even drink it :-)
Yours truly,
Barry O’Connell
www.SpongoBongo.com



Re: Oriental Rug Cleaning Question...
Posted By K.O. (Shorty) Glanville on 11/9/2011 at 3:45 PM

RICHARD CHAVEZ !!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I think you rate more than an "EVEN".


After all mate, this (intelligent) ??, discussion, is between two people discussing the best way to clean Oriental rugs and other stuff.

I would compare the required knowledge to your Prez; telling you how to do a WDR in a moldy, flooded basement.

Best wishes, Yours truly, Best of luck,
With disdain,

Shorty down under the rug challenge fiasco with Taco's firmly in hand. (LOL).


PS:: Here's the S.T. kicker that I always look for.......


What is the recommended cleaning frequency for rugs?

Would it be the same as carpet (12-18 months)?

I try to convince my clients to clean their rugs while i'm doing their carpet, but most of them tell me they would rather wait until next time - i.e. every 2yrs...

I want to educate them on proper cleaning intervals but have not found any references to cleaning frequency....

I like the straight forward answers by the "CLEANERS".



Re: Oriental Rug Cleaning Question...
Posted By David VB on 11/9/2011 at 3:51 PM

Lisa - Thank you for a fair and balanced report.

Barry - Thanks for the definition of a straw man. It is a great description of how some use smoke and mirrors to confuse and distract to win an argument.

I have a Sanitaire and a Rug Badger. We find the Rug Badger vastly superior on most rugs we clean,unless you want to triple your time dusting (as Lisa said). We also use the steel grates. Are they a problem for some soft pile rugs like a Chinese? Yes. Is that anything new? Hardly. As with most tools, you just have to know their limitations and use them accordingly.

Most of what is said here is a matter of opinion. It becomes a problem when opinion turns into an agenda. Some have equipment or training to sell and may slant things accordingly. Some go on the attack in an effort to damage someone as a result of taking sides in someone else's dispute. Some promote others products since they benefit in some way.

There are those though who genuinely are there to help others. You just have to figure out who they are. The nice thing about being in business is you get to make the decision for yourself who to listen to.




Modified By David VB on 11/9/2011 at 4:10 PM

Re: Oriental Rug Cleaning Question...
Posted By Barry O'Connell on 11/9/2011 at 4:35 PM

Thanks David,
You gotta love Lisa. She calls it the way she sees it and I can’t get mad even when we disagree which is not often. I am really please that Dusty listened to her and built the new RugBadger to her specifications.
I tell the truth and do my best to help people. I know I tick some people off but I just learn to live with it. So when guys start slamming me I can take it. The one I feel bad for was Richard Chavez. Seems like a nice guy and he ends up getting slammed. It is sort of like the driver who slows down to look at the accident and gets rear ended.
As for this discussion I hate to see the MB foolishness start on this board.
As for the RugBadger it is a tool. Back home I have a wide variety of hammers. Tack hammers, ball peen, roofing hammers, claw, ice hammer, sledges, mauls and some I don’t know the name for, but there is a certain job where each one is the best. I also know that with all the different hammers there is one that I use the most. For many rug washers the RugBadger is the best tool for most rugs. Now I know when I did brick work I used the 5lbs maul the most and when I did upholstery I used a tack hammer a lot so no one tool does everything but that does not diminish its value.
By the way I like your website. I found the info very useful.
Best wishes,
Barry O’Connell
www.SpongoBongo.com



Re: Oriental Rug Cleaning Question...
Posted By K.O. (Shorty) Glanville on 11/9/2011 at 8:19 PM

I can feel the love.

I also see the funny side when a couple of blokes are having a dig at each other in jest.

Man purses indeed. !!!

Grow up, we have MAN BAGS down under :)

Fair dinkum, this place is better than going fishing.

Always bites to be had. LOL LOL ROFLMAO

Shorty down under.


Re: Oriental Rug Cleaning Question...
Posted By Bob Foster on 11/9/2011 at 8:22 PM

Make your own duster out of an electic reel lawnmower. Take off the blade and screw on some straps. There you go...

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R ... ogId=10053
Modified By Bob Foster on 11/9/2011 at 8:27 PM

Re: Oriental Rug Cleaning Question...
Posted By Stephen Dusty Roberts on 11/9/2011 at 10:01 PM

Holy smokes, what a thread. I will be the first to say that the RugBadgers are not always the best solution for dusting rugs, but most of the time they are certainly faster then a sanitaire and certainly a lot more reliable, and with a little common scense on what to Badger and what to not Badger you will be safe. Using a piece of TYVEK between the back of the rug and the straps solves the "too agressive" issue.
Here is a link to the doc that goes out with every RugBadger and this gives some good tips on how to safely use the units and deal with small and delicate rugs. http://www.rugbadger.com/forms/BasicUsersGuide.pdf

Bottom line is if you don't have enough business volume to justify a RugBadger then I will wholeheartly recommen you get a Sanitaire SC888 with the Vibra groomer 1 roller and then ask your local vac repair shop to remove the brush strip and insert a second beater strip. To find one of these you can usually do a seach on Ebay and the cost will be under $200.

Good news is that we have created a new smaller RugBadger, but have not yet marketed it. This unit will be much less $, less weight but is still very reliable. We hope to have it up and available from our webstore in short order.

Regarding buiding your own, I have seen many. Mostly from people that told me that they did not need a RugBadger as they had created their own using anything from a large vacuum, to a Pile lifter to a VonSchraeder machine. Funny thing is these ppl end up buying a RugBadger in the end and tell me they had wasted their time and money to make something that did not work very good, broke constantly and was dangerous.

This is a first time I have seen someone with a plan to make one from an electic lawnmower. Maybe Bob is onto something and will share pics and video.


Re: Oriental Rug Cleaning Question...
Posted By Randy Hyde on 11/9/2011 at 10:24 PM

You mean straw man comments like this...

“To everyone else please do not follow Randy Hyde's example.I don't think you need a microscope to know that dry rotted rugs should not be aggressively dusted with anything whether it is a carpet beater, Sanitaire, Rug Badger or Moore style duster”

Accept some of the blame too, for your own post will ya!

Barry you stated that ….“Dusty Roberts of Rug Badger has a video out called The Six Second Challenge. He tales a Sanitaire and a Rug Badger and runs them in place on the back of a rug to compare how much dirt shakes out in 6 seconds. Of course the Rug Badger creams the Sanitaire”

You imply a badger/strap duster is “of course” more effective you didn’t say other dusting methods may work better and of course the badger was better the sanitaire was used wrong. I’d be here arguing the same thing for the badger If it was put on a furniture dolly rolled across a rug vs. a sanitaire and some halfwit tried to tell people the sanitaire of course creamed the badger it not a fair test! At no point in this thread have I trashed the badger as a piece of equipment or as a dusting method.

“We got along just fine until I dared to disagree with you. Then you pull out every smarmy dirty trick in the book to win. I wish you would quit trying to win at all costs and instead just tell the truth in a fair and balanced manner.”

What are you talking about? I simply pointed out this isn’t a fair comparison test you ran with it! your the one that kicked me off you site because I didn't agree with you not the other way around.

“As for Ellen and Aaron, just yesterday I was praising their course as a great choice for some people. When you say I called them, “a cheat” that is an untrue mischaracterization of my position”

You are correct you said they “screwed” a fried of yours not cheat!I stand corrected

(9/23/2011 at 11:21 AM) on this forum
“Howard, I am a little angry but not with you. I am preparing a post on how I feel Ellen and Aaron screwed a friend of mine and by that token a man I believe to be a friend of yours as well.”




Re: Oriental Rug Cleaning Question...
Posted By Randy Hyde on 11/9/2011 at 10:32 PM

At least Dusty’s post is offering options and not a badger is the end all for everything! Dusty I’m sure you recall past phone conversations we have had where on some rug not all but some rugs a sanitaire just works best and to be fair on some rugs a badger works best!
Can we all at least agree then that one dusting method isn’t the end all!



Re: Oriental Rug Cleaning Question...
Posted By Barry O'Connell on 11/9/2011 at 11:52 PM

Hi Randy,

When I wrote:

“To everyone else please do not follow Randy Hyde's example .I don't think you need a microscope to know that dry rotted rugs should not be aggressively dusted with anything whether it is a carpet beater, Sanitaire, Rug Badger or Moore style duster”.

I was reacting to your comments which now you said:

“We find the grids damage the pile this is visible with a 10X microscope and some rugs like a 120 year old farghan Sarouk with dry rot & old stabilizing it's simply asking for trouble.”

You say “We Find” how did you find. Did you damage a rug or not. Or when you said “We Find” did you really mean “I think”. Were you lying, or just being tricky and deceptive. Was there a damaged rug and did you examine it under your microscope. If there was a damaged rug, who damaged it? Were you a witness to it being damaged? If there was really a damaged rug can you really swear that a Badger damaged it? If you can swear to that you must have done it or seen it done. Whose rug was it? Was it the Dry Rotted Sarouk? How many rugs did you damage? When you say “Some rugs” it indicates more than one. You used the plural not me. When I read it I thought you were telling the truth. But now it appears that you were lying. You did not see a badger used on a 120 year old dry rotted Sarouk and then examine it with a microscope, did you? It is not a strawman to believe you and take you at your word.
As for Aaron. I told him what I thought and he did not disagree or tell me I had it wrong. But as to exactly what I said is between me and him. I think you are caught in your own lies and want to drag Aaron into this just like you tried to drag in Lisa to take the pressure off of you.
We have burnt enough bandwidth with this crap. Shall we just call this a tie and quit. We have nothing to gain by going another day
Yours truly,
Barry O’Connell
www.SpongoBongo.com



Re: Oriental Rug Cleaning Question...
Posted By Richard Chavez on 11/10/2011 at 9:21 AM

No problem here, I have thick skin and I'm not easily offended. I was just giving Randy a hard time over his comment.

I do have concerns of potential fiber damage when using the sharp edged drag mat/harrow. Not just of dry rotted goods but any rug with dense pile.

I've thought about having our drag mat sprayed with bed liner just to cover those sharp edges with rubber but not sure if it would work or not?

I'll back out of the way now, so the man purse swinging can continue.
;)




Re: Oriental Rug Cleaning Question...
Posted By Barry O'Connell on 11/10/2011 at 9:51 AM

Hello Richard,
Very valid questions. In my experience with the grids they will not hurt the average Oriental rug. With more fragile rugs using a sheet of Tyvek under the rug is an option. But it is not a good idea to use a badger for everything. I washed an extremely fragile textile that certainly could not be badgered or beaten or even normal air dusting. It was so fragile that it could not be safely dusted even by floating it on an air current. The solution was to air dust with low pressure with the textile sandwhichiched between nylon screens. The screens gave it support and protection so that the air would not cause any of the rips and tears to spread. Then we followed up with a horsehair brush and a low sudsing detergent. I was first shown that by a curator at the Textile Museum and then refined it when I was a consultant to the Smithsonian Museum of the American Indian.
As for the spray-on bedliner I wonder if it would still be flexible to roll. I will talk to Dusty and also to a friend of mine who is a distributor for bedliner spray and industrial coatings. He is really more in body shop supply but he carries the other stuff.
Best wishes,
Barry



Re: Oriental Rug Cleaning Question...
Posted By Stephen Dusty Roberts on 11/10/2011 at 10:23 AM

For folks that are concerned about damaging fragile or soft rugs using the dusting grids I supply I encourage you to go out and get some 4'x8' sheets of the plastic lattice work from Home Depot or Lowes. Just make sure you get the product that has the smaller holes or you could possibly stress the foundations of some weak rugs. Not quite as fast as our dusting grids, but certainly much better then Badgering directly on the floor and much cheeper too boot. For any of you using my dusting grids, just lay some of this on top for the fragile and sensitive rugs. Problem solved. Hope this helps.


Re: Oriental Rug Cleaning Question...
Posted By Barry O'Connell on 11/10/2011 at 10:39 AM

Great Dusty, As long as you stipulate that some rugs can be too fragile even for this we should be OK. There are some rugs that are too fragile and damaged even to be vacuumed. we don't want to leave room for people to play games with extreme examples.


Re: Oriental Rug Cleaning Question...
Posted By Randy Hyde on 11/10/2011 at 11:49 AM


“Was there a damaged rug and did you examine it under your microscope. If there was a damaged rug, who damaged it? Were you a witness to it being damaged? If there was really a damaged rug can you really swear that a Badger damaged it?”

The first rug we/I noticed damage too was an old Peking Chinese rug there was a oxidized dark brown/ black damaged the loss wasn’t prior to dusting. As I recall both the badger and a sanitaire where used on the rug it was a nice day and the bay door was open the contrast of color (tip fading) and pile loss was pronounced . we have 1 5' grid the rug was large 9x12 or so. after doing the first half and flipping it over there it was little dips like carpet beetles make but semi-uniform we assumed it was there the contact with the grid and the vibrations that seems to have sheared the wool. Shearing fixed the issue but still damage is damage. A similar issue happened with a samad noble house or rugs by Robinson rug (tea washed Indian rug) that rug I looked at under magnification there was a loss and physical damage to wool sharp angle crimping. The crimping much of this was removed during cleaning but there where area of actual slight pile loss. There was a wool and silk Tabrize sheared low that took some effort to get marks out of the silk after cleaning. That's when I stopped using the grid as for a faraghan sarouk on the grids I said “and some rugs” AND “simply asking for trouble.” it was an example for you of a rug one needs to be careful of.

Also, lets be clear. I never said the badger damaged the rugs I said the grids damaged the rugs in fact the Chinese rug above I believe and in all fairness we used a sanitaire most not the badger.


“Were you lying, or just being tricky and deceptive.” “When I read it I thought you were telling the truth But now it appears that you were lying.” “As for Aaron. I told him what I thought and he did not disagree or tell me I had it wrong. But as to exactly what I said is between me and him. I think you are caught in your own lies and want to drag Aaron into this just like you tried to drag in Lisa to take the pressure off of you.”

You don’t give a crap if I’m telling you the truth or not you are a persona here to whore Badger products you will pick this apart and try and twist it its what you do. What lies? You posted on this forum for all to see anyone here can go back and check for themselves your childish deliberate misspelling of Aaron’s and others names and saying they screwed someone. I don’t need to drag anyone into this, Aaron & Ellen for that matter rarely if ever posts here which is why it’s so sleazy of you to slander them here!


After all this crap what are you now telling people "As long as you stipulate that some rugs can be too fragile even for this we should be OK." did it really have to go this way?

what's the "WE" Barry are you financially tied into badger now, are you involved in badger as a business?

As for Chavez we are friends on mikey's board,..hard to believe a nice guy like Chavez handing out there ..lol
Modified By Randy Hyde on 11/10/2011 at 11:51 AM

Re: Oriental Rug Cleaning Question...
Posted By Richard Chavez on 11/10/2011 at 1:25 PM

Yes we are but I'm still insulted by the "Even" implication.
;)

As far as MB, where you post doesn't change who you are. MB is a little looser with language but there are many very good people over there.





Re: Oriental Rug Cleaning Question...
Posted By Barry O'Connell on 11/10/2011 at 2:39 PM

Thanks Randy,
First of all I have no financial interest in RugBadger. Not a penny. I also help Dusty with his Marketing Webinars for free. We also conduct a free program on ProCleaners Network for rug Cleaners and I do that for free. There are so many rug cleaners anxious for help that I get a kick out of helping them. I did visit Dusty in Victoria and he bought me lunch and dinner but I forget what I did for breakfast. I am not a big breakfast eater. I know people say it is the most important meal of the day but I usually skip it. But Dusty is a friend. I do what I do because I think it is right and God amply provides for my needs. I am not driven by money. I pray for my needs and God never fails me. Although there are times when I have to cut back to less expensive cigars. Now Dusty did promise me some Philippine cigars next time he goes over but his wife talked him out of it because she thinks the cigars are bad for me. I wanted to try the cigars because I read that Douglas MacArthur preferred the Philippine cigars to Cubans. I am thankful that God gives me what I want rather than what I deserve because I am not a particularly good or holy man. Every time I get in my Jaguar I think it funny how a sinner like me makes out while so many good people go lacking.
Back to the rugs. You wrote:
“old Peking Chinese rug there was a oxidized dark brown/ black damaged”
I think the oxidation was the problem and the grate was incidental. With oxidation the wool becomes brittle and prone to break. We have both seen rugs where one or two colors especially brown and black are down to the foundation while all the other colors are good pile. My thought is that the damage was unavoidable in that foot traffic or almost any pressure could have broken the fragile wool. Still I think you have to be very careful of dusting, grids, or any agitation with oxidized wool. One possibility is to use Barry Juice on these rugs. What it does is treat the wool with an infusion of keratin and wool type amino acids. It might help. We have had very good results with old damaged wool but I do not remember a specific case of applying the formula to oxidized wool. I will talk to Wade Shehady and see if he has in suitable samples in his patch barrels to test. I wish you were one of our beta testers since you probably see more of the antique rugs with problem wool than most shops. By the way I do not make a cent on Barry Juice I just help with it because it is really good for people who wash antique rugs.
Best wishes,
Barry O’Connell
http://www.SpongoBongo.com



Re: Oriental Rug Cleaning Question...
Posted By Barry O'Connell on 11/10/2011 at 5:35 PM

Hi Randy,
I called Wade and he has a Antique Kuba fragment with the corrosive black. He is applying the Barry Juice tonight and when it dries he will give it a vigorous test to see if the black can withstand the punishment. If this works it could be a real help with a serious rug problem. I don’t know what to expect since with corrosive black we have a problem that started over 100 years ago. But it is worth testing. By the way Wade is the fellow who came up with the technique of using Barry Juice to treat dry rotted rugs. By getting the rotted area limber again he can then insert good cotton into the foundation to reinforce the damaged areas. The big advantage is that it saves the time and cost of removing the damaged areas and reweaving on a newly inserted foundation.
Best wishes,
Barry O’Connell
http://www.orientalrugtalk.com



Baby Badgers!!!!!
Posted By Lisa Wagner on 11/10/2011 at 10:12 PM

Well, we used the Badger today in our workshop. There were some great photos of soil released - and there also were some problems on the smaller, and softer rugs - and we actually did talk about how it would be nice to have a lighter, smaller, option.

So I am happy to have been part of the "inspiration" for a baby Badger. Perhaps Badger-lite (or Badger-light).

But those metal grates are a beast to use and move. I personally would never own them. Plastic and fiberglass grating is available on-line as another option.

Looking forward to seeing the new unit,
Lisa

P.S. Joe - if you call Jon-Don ask for the bar that is specifically for rug dusting for the Sanitaire - they will know what you are asking for. It's a more concave shape. But I will be buying the baby Badger to test with our next workshop, which looks like it will be in March since we now have a back log of companies wanting to go through our Textile Pro program. It's been a blast... =)




Re: Oriental Rug Cleaning Question...
Posted By Stephen Dusty Roberts on 11/10/2011 at 10:29 PM

Lisa

Yes, you were the inspiration. I will post up pics real soon, but still have not got a good name for the new little beast. Maybe we will do a naming contest!


A big congrats on the workshop. I've had a couple of my friends there and they are saying it is a fantastic event (im not surpised of coarse)

Joe, Make sure you ask for the Vibra 1 roller as it makes a big difference especially when you remove the brush stip and slide in a second beater strip.


Re: Oriental Rug Cleaning Question...
Posted By Stephen Dusty Roberts on 11/10/2011 at 10:35 PM

Lisa, it is very easy to deal with smaller and softer rugs by using the TYVEK housewrap. Just get an oversized piece of the TYVEK, lay over the backside of the rug(s), roll the Badger on top, flick on the switch and happy/safe badgering!

Here is a link to the operation manual that goes out with all the RugBadger Pro units and shows how to use the TYVEK. Will you try the TYVEK next class and let me know how you like it?




Re: Oriental Rug Cleaning Question...
Posted By K.O. (Shorty) Glanville on 11/11/2011 at 4:48 AM

That must be the missing link.




Re: Oriental Rug Cleaning Question...
Posted By David VB on 11/11/2011 at 9:27 AM

Nice thing about the metal grates is they are easy to roll up so you can sweep up the dirt. They are heavy and awkward, but I haven't done anything with mine except roll them out and roll them up. When we have a soft rug, we just don't use them.


Re: Oriental Rug Cleaning Question...
Posted By Stephen Dusty Roberts on 11/11/2011 at 9:31 AM

LOL> I missed putting the link showing RugBadger operation with TYVEK to protect smaller/delicate and fragile rugs. http://www.rugbadger.com/forms/BasicUsersGuide.pdf

Thanks for the reminder Shorty.


Re: Oriental Rug Cleaning Question...
Posted By Richard Chavez on 11/11/2011 at 10:20 AM

I agree with the "They are heavy and awkward" I would add to that "sharp to handle".

Has anyone tried spraying them with bed liner?

I have a new WDR truck I need to have sprayed, I might just take the drag mat and see if they can spray the edges and it still be able to roll up.


Re: Oriental Rug Cleaning Question...
Posted By Randy Hyde on 11/11/2011 at 4:53 PM

Yes, the rug had oxidized brown/black,.. I’m not sure if it was the vibration of the wool on the grates at angle+ weight+ vibration or possible pinching of wool between metal links + weight +vibration with the wool? Regardless of the reason the damage happened in our care and was the result of our actions and therefore our responsibility.


I experimented with a few solutions to hydrate/soften rugs 3-5 years ago they generally result in too rapid resoling and the softening and didn't result in a dramatic improvement for reweaving/sewing. Of course I’m probably lying about this too!...you could ask Pablo Gomez about it he was at your NY rug tour he was at my shop when I was testing one of them.


Re: Oriental Rug Cleaning Question...
Posted By Stephen Dusty Roberts on 11/11/2011 at 5:22 PM

Richard.

Our dusting grids are certainly not recommended for all rugs, just most. For the rugs that are safe to be dusting on the grids, they will make your job much faster and cleaner. Faster because the rug is suspended and the dust easily can drop out, cleaner because the pockets formed by the rugs make a closed cell and trap the majority of the dirt from blowing out the sides of the rug and contaminating your work space and air. Our grids also have virtually no surface area as they are standing wire and have no tread on them.

You should not have to pick them up, just roll them up. We do these in 2 sections of 6'x10' as you can easily put the two 6' widths together and make a dusting pad that is 10'x12' and that is good or 90 plus percent of most rugs. You just shift the rug over when it is oversize. Sharp? No they are are not knive blades, but could be too much for some rugs. Just use them with a little bit of caution, just like with any good tool. Just be selective with which rugs to use the dusting grids with.

Oh yes, one other reason we have have done the grids as 2 sections of 6x10 is the weight is exactly 100 lbs and we feel that if you have to move them around that is the upper limit for what one man should handle.

Regarding spraying them with bed liner, I am sure that would help for when you are dealing with soft or fragile rugs, but you will then loose the benefit of being able to roll up the grids and quickly sweep or vacuum under. I think you would be better off just snapping up a couple plastic lattice sections to lay on top of the metal grids for when you Badger the sensitive rugs.

Hope this all helps. Do let me know how the lattice works if you do get some.



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Connor

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Re: Lisa Wagnor, if you have a minute

ACE said:
Did you know potted plants should maybe not be placed on that priceless area rug?


If it's that priceless, why the heck would you lay it on the floor and walk all over it?
 

Studebaker

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And to think I could have just peacefully sat here and listended to my dog snore and fart... But no I had to read all of that!
 

John Watson

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I challange all youens to a dust off!!!

Me and Miss Hildy can woop all of yous, Of coarse she is over 60 years old and her grate must by now have rounded over edges from all her use. I know I sure hurt. She tackled many of those 90 liners without damage, Shes lighter than a badger, does her own sucking and so much more volupious than a flippen sanitare. She don't beat nutten, she couresses the large soils from among the warps and wefts.. The reason I found for the demise for the Hildy family was the larger inplant dusters could do it faster. Dave Burns Jr told me thats why they retired their Miss Hildy and said Mine possibly could have been theirs. Yous guys names the time and place for the show down, but please hurry cause my stuff is for sale to the higest bidder.
 

John Watson

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up yours there big head. Remember your the wanabe rugsucker that couldn't hack it, Now that I am now totaly retarded, my spark might be low, but like an ol magnito, watch it I can still git cha...

Your the proof bigger aint always better..
 

Mikey P

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Oh I hacked those few hundred rugs just fine...
Didnt take long to figure out there is far more money in wall to wall.
Unless you can pump out rugs non stop like Snow does in production line,its a waste of time and a lower back
 

dgargan

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"Umm...my 1st impression of Bongo was right after all. More of a Patrick than a Sponge bob."

I always enjoy lee's sense of humor.
 

rwcarpet

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Mikey P said:
I dont want to take you away from Tea Time with your dear friend Barry OBongo but I just have to ask you a question...

In your latest Blog post you said
"HOW TO HANDLE TUFTED RUGS:

If you own a tufted rug, and you’ve bought it from a reputable rug merchant, you will likely have no issues taking it to be professionally cleaned. Do not clean the rug yourself. These rugs take considerably longer to dry, and you open up yourself to a whole host of problems (and mess) if you try a D-I-Y clean.

These rugs also should never be cleaned in the home setting. Though there may be no warning signs on the rug itself, you open yourself up to potential damage to the floor underneath (yellowing, dye transfer, latex powder residue).

If you are a professional rug cleaner, these are the things you need to take into consideration, because today’s tufted rugs hold many more challenges than those from even a few years ago.


Now dear friend of mine, wouldn't you agree that if the hot water extraction fag were to lay a piece of plastic between the tufted rug and the floor, carpet, wood, tile or otherwise that "Steam Cleaning" a POS, worn out stanky, Ikea special would not hurt a damn thing?


Lets say the Tufted was in sound shape and just needed a good front and back vacuuming and a HWE rinse to brighten things up and make it smell froofy for while. I would think even the flamiest of Rug Fruits would concede that if done properly the world will see another day.

Wouldn't you?


"Hot water extraction fag".........oh, boy, here go the complaints again! Mike will back on FB.
 

Dolly Llama

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welp..i enjoyed reading it

Hyde had spOngo shucking and jiving in the ring til he finally got him on the ropes , then spOngo pulls out the ole "God is great , I'm a Christian" routine :roll:

Hyde handed him azz and did it with class .
spOngo is a no class carnival barker as far as I'm concerned



..L.T.A.
 

ruff

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Buck Turgidson said:
welp..i enjoyed reading it

Hyde had spOngo shucking and jiving in the ring til he finally got him on the ropes , then spOngo pulls out the ole "God is great , I'm a Christian" routine :roll:

Hyde handed him azz and did it with class .
spOngo is a no class carnival barker as far as I'm concerned



..L.T.A.

Evidently Buck, you are not concerned about purgatory.

What?
You got a deal with saint Michael :p
 

LisaWagnerCRS

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Mike, you still should remove the rugs from the house to clean them. When you come across the ones that have the excessive filler in the latex (from India and the US), then you will realize why. And doing the work at your location, even if you plan to still do HWE on it, will at least give you the opportunity to fix problems that are tougher to fix in the home.

We wash hundreds of rugs a week, and I get several tech disasters a day from cleaners doing work in the homes, or in their mini-plants. I know some of you don't care for what I write. Good thing it's a free country, and that it's all free, because you don't have to read anything from me and you don't have to pay a dime for it. But for some out there, what I write helps them, and that's why I'm doing it.

And "Ace" Hughes - I look forward to seeing what you put up on your own blog to educate others. Because if you think my blogs and articles are "remedial at best" then I guess yours can be the retarded blog when it's up. And I bet it will be the best damn retarded work out there, because you obviously have a natural talent there.

Mikey, you gotta get over your rug fag fetish. It's creepy.

Lisa
 
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ruff

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Lisa certainly does not hold back, you got to love that about her.

I for one like her articles a lot. I've learned from them and still do.
I also email links to some of my clients that have questions regarding some specific rug issues. They love it and so do I.

Mikey will get over the creepy rug fag expression as soon as he stops calling his loyal hard working employees chimps.
Or to avoid visiting Texas again.
In other words: I wouldn't hold my breath :p
 

Mikey P

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Well good for you for sticking to your guns but for every "Hundreds" of worn out or cheap rugs you clean in your plant each month, thousands get wanded with zero issues all around you.



The Rug Fag term is here to stay.


It's just too damn perfect a way to describe grown men who get all emotional over a textile.
 

LisaWagnerCRS

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Mikey P said:
Well good for you for sticking to your guns but for every "Hundreds" of worn out or cheap rugs you clean in your plant each month, thousands get wanded with zero issues all around you.



The Rug Fag term is here to stay.


It's just too damn perfect a way to describe grown men who get all emotional over a textile.

Just because the rugs are cheap doesn't mean you shouldn't clean them well. Even if you decide to surface clean it, you should still do it outside of the home for a whole host of reasons - the chance to dust it, to clean it twice if needed, to actually rinse it well, and clean the fringe.

I'm not sure which is worse, the Rug Fag group or the Rug Hack Fag group... but it would be nice if the rugs could at least be cleaned well. Even those with a wand can do a better job outside of the home. If they are too lazy to do that, then maybe they need to refer out the rugs to someone who really wants to serve their clients better. Rugs are not for everyone, but when you know there's a better way, I'd think being a "professional" cleaner would be on advising them on what needs to be done to do the job right.

These newer rugs are going to be a problem - just a heads up on it. That was the reason for the blog post. I wasn't trying to convince you to change your ways Mike... I was just pointing out the issues that are coming up more and more.

Lisa
 

Mikey P

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The High Chapperal
Seeing how you are not out in the field I dont think you understand that tons rug owners just dont want the hassle of sending out a rug that "just aint that dirty" or "I hardly paid anything for that ol' thing" in their eyes.

It would be like trying to convince them to let me lift up their wall to wall and take it back to the plant.

Most people just want their cheap rugs to look better...

Sending them out involves making appointments to pick up, deliver, or drop off and pick up, many duel incomers are too busy for all that.



Just relaying what I see and hear daily.
 

Mikey P

Administrator
Joined
Oct 6, 2006
Messages
112,308
Location
The High Chapperal
a Rughack's best friend...


pplastic-01.jpg
 

rhyde

Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2006
Messages
4,253
Location
Portland, Oregon
Name
rhyde
What bothers me much more is hack out repair jobs when ignorant people cut, glue, serge & fringes valuable rugs thereby destroying their value .. I can always re-clean a hack job!

There is a point when you’re in over your head where hacking urine soaked or a heavily soiled rug in home and charging $$$ is simply a waste of your time and worse makes you look bad to the customer. You don’t see cuz you’re not in this business Mikey

As far as the “rug Fag” term it doesn’t bother me.
 

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