Low Surface Tension Fluoro-surfactants

[Tom Forsythe]

I am sorry that I missed the discussion over the weekend. (NOT) The discussion was closed so I created a different post. Fluoro surfactants lower surface tension like fluoro protectors lower surface tension to about 15 dynes/cm. The secret ingredient if fluorine. LST is being used in wool rugs effectively as they are washed. The rinse water goes throughout the fiber to the base of the rug an example of deep cleaning.
The depth of surfactant penetration is not always a benefit for a fiber like polyester. Penetration to the primary backing necessitates thorough rinsing and drying to limit wicking. Without this rinsing process the cleaning agent is in contact with more soil facilitating its wicking to the surface as it dries. Surface cleaning, I have heard from Jim Pemberton, is preferred for fabrics as deep cleaning can create issues. The point is no cleaner works for everything. We all seek a silver bullet but alas it is only a dream. It is useful to seek the best for each type of cleaning surface on your menu. The attached blogs discuss these principles in greater detail.
https://blog.aramsco.com/special-ag...ing-agent-5-surface-penetrant-defoamer-in-one
https://blog.aramsco.com/surface-tension

 

[SamIam]

Silver bullet cough cough

 

[hogjowl]

So, are you saying we shouldn’t use Mr. Labcoat’s product on anything that we can’t rinse in a pit?

 

[BIG WOOD]

This might be a good reason to bring up the importance of sodium carbonate (washing soda). It makes water wetter, which helps suspend the soils a very safe way.

 

[DAT]

That's why I am careful with my crb and application of products to carpets. It's alot like welding, gotta be balanced to make a good bead.

 

[Tom Forsythe]

So, are you saying we shouldn’t use Mr. Labcoat’s product on anything that we can’t rinse in a pit?

No, but you have to be careful when you have fibers that do not absorb water like polyester. Sometimes you want a good surface cleaning and not a deep cleaning. If you want a deep cleaning then the rinsing needs to be done thoroughly with the appropriate dry strokes for the fiber.

 

[Tom Forsythe]

This might be a good reason to bring up the importance of sodium carbonate (washing soda). It makes water wetter, which helps suspend the soils a very safe way.

We have used a few million pounds of sodium carbonate over the years and your comment is new to me. Matt can you direct me to the source of this information. Phosphates, do not make water wetter but do suspend the soils so that they are rinsed away and not redeposited back onto the fiber. In my view sodium carbonate provides alkalinity and in powders allow the formula to absorb more liquids to reach the goal of 90% powder and 10% liquids (surfactant, solvents, fragrances).

 

[Cleanworks]

I am sorry that I missed the discussion over the weekend. (NOT) The discussion was closed so I created a different post. Fluoro surfactants lower surface tension like fluoro protectors lower surface tension to about 15 dynes/cm. The secret ingredient if fluorine. LST is being used in wool rugs effectively as they are washed. The rinse water goes throughout the fiber to the base of the rug an example of deep cleaning.
The depth of surfactant penetration is not always a benefit for a fiber like polyester. Penetration to the primary backing necessitates thorough rinsing and drying to limit wicking. Without this rinsing process the cleaning agent is in contact with more soil facilitating its wicking to the surface as it dries. Surface cleaning, I have heard from Jim Pemberton, is preferred for fabrics as deep cleaning can create issues. The point is no cleaner works for everything. We all seek a silver bullet but alas it is only a dream. It is useful to seek the best for each type of cleaning surface on your menu. The attached blogs discuss these principles in greater detail.
https://blog.aramsco.com/special-ag...ing-agent-5-surface-penetrant-defoamer-in-one
https://blog.aramsco.com/surface-tension

So, would olefin specific presprays have less surfactants?

 

[Tom Forsythe]

So, would olefin specific presprays have less surfactants?

The level of surfactant penetration varies with the surfactant type. The fluoro surfactants penetrate the deepest. One of the surfactants we use draws soil away from the fiber and holds it into solutions.
https://blog.aramsco.com/special-agents-at-work-agent-7-attracting-soils-to-cleaning-solution

Polyester Carpet Responds to Special Surfactant

Blended non-ionic and cationic surfactant pre-sprays have found their place with polyester type carpets with particulate oily soils.

blog.aramsco.com

 

[BIG WOOD]

We have used a few million pounds of sodium carbonate over the years and your comment is new to me. Matt can you direct me to the source of this information. Phosphates, do not make water wetter but do suspend the soils so that they are rinsed away and not redeposited back onto the fiber. In my view sodium carbonate provides alkalinity and in powders allow the formula to absorb more liquids to reach the goal of 90% powder and 10% liquids (surfactant, solvents, fragrances).

I always thought soft water was wetter than hard water, which is what sodium carbonate does to the water. Makes it soft water

 

[Tom Forsythe]

It does soften water, but not to the same degree as phosphates or EDTA. Making water wetter is generally the term used when surfactants are in use. I have the chart somewhere that lists the effectiveness of ingredients used in formulas to soften water. HOWEVER, you should NOT rely on your rinse to soften water. Most powdered rinses are $8 per pound while water softening salt is around 20 cents a pound when used with a water softener. In Salt Lake at 15 gpp, 80% of the phosphate in a powder formula can be used up softening the water making it unavailable for cleaning. This is an expensive water softener and makes rinses little better than using water alone. https://blog.aramsco.com/water-quality

 

[Cleanworks]

It does soften water, but not to the same degree as phosphates or EDTA. Making water wetter is generally the term used when surfactants are in use. I have the chart somewhere that lists the effectiveness of ingredients used in formulas to soften water. HOWEVER, you should NOT rely on your rinse to soften water. Most powdered rinses are $8 per pound while water softening salt is around 20 cents a pound when used with a water softener. In Salt Lake at 15 gpp, 80% of the phosphate in a powder formula can be used up softening the water making it unavailable for cleaning. This is an expensive water softener and makes rinses little better than using water alone. https://blog.aramsco.com/water-quality

Where I am at in the Vancouver BC area, our water hardness is .3 gpg. Nice and soft.

 

[Nate The Great]

Where I am at in the Vancouver BC area, our water hardness is .3 gpg. Nice and soft.

Explains why Canadian are “soft” in general..

Unless I’ve missed it somewhere, I still unclear how Silver Solution is different than LST…? “Peptizers” isn’t an answer.. I believe LST is also 18 which pushes the dirt away from the textile..

I’ll never knock another man’s hustle, just don’t piss on my back and tell me it’s raining..

 

[Dolly Llama]

That's right!!
you don' play my man Nate dat way

..L.T.A.

 

[Cleanworks]

Explains why Canadian are “soft” in general..

Unless I’ve missed it somewhere, I still unclear how Silver Solution is different than LST…? “Peptizers” isn’t an answer.. I believe LST is also 18 which pushes the dirt away from the textile..

I’ll never knock another man’s hustle, just don’t piss on my back and tell me it’s raining..

Hawaiian woman make us hard again. Ooh, those grass skirts