LVP failure

Mikey P

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The contractor glued each LV-Plank to the concrete subfloor "because I've always done it this way"..

6 months old.. PXL_20240105_185758641.jpgPXL_20240105_185817499.jpgPXL_20240105_185834383.jpg
 

Dolly Llama

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if that's glue down plank and not floating clicklok, where did the installer screw the pooch?

wrong glue or material wasn't acclimated?


..L.T.A.
 

FredC

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What caused this damage ?

Hard to say. IDK if "that damn installer glued them down not allowing for expansion" is the answer though. Are they actually click-locks (like mikey said) or one of the many LVP planks that use either a glue down or pressure sensitive adhesive?

That is cupping and ultimately the cause is moisture (bottom absorbing it and expanding). Since it appears to be on the main level (on-grade concrete) I'm more inclined to believe it is subfloor moisture causing the issue. That may or may not still be an installer issue because the moisture content should be checked (<4% usually)and for some products the floor "sealed"/moisture barrier/adhesive. Possibly too wet adhesive.


*assuming other recommendations like acclimation were followed
 

Dolly Llama

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Are they actually click-locks (like mikey said) or one of the many LVP planks that use either a glue down or pressure sensitive adhesive?


I'd expect even a midwit like Mike would know if clickloc or not...

my best "guess" is cold material that spent a high desert winter night or three in the van and pulled right from the van to the floor.
and/or possibly a cold weather install before the HVAC was operable/running in a rush to complete a rehab
(been there/done that..."once" ) :icon_redface::dejection::hopeless:

Installed over uncured concrete is possible too, but think that less likely

..L.T.A.
 

FredC

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I'd expect even a midwit like Mike would know if clickloc or not...

my best "guess" is cold material that spent a high desert winter night or three in the van and pulled right from the van to the floor.
and/or possibly a cold weather install before the HVAC was operable/running in a rush to complete a rehab
(been there/done that..."once" ) :icon_redface::dejection::hopeless:

Installed over uncured concrete is possible too, but think that less likely

..L.T.A.

It's moisture...

you wouldn't get that degree of cupping with weather related temperature/humidity changes imo

moisture moves through cured concrete (capillary action)...purpose of vapor barrier/sealing


as far as "click lock" I mean that the planks are only allowed to be floating/ gluing them is not allowed (like LifeProof)....this is not the case for all "click-lock" lvp products



float.jpg


*most are float only but we don't know what product was used
 
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Mikey P

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I wasn't called in to address the situation, I nearly asked questions to the owner of the biz.

His landlord and contractor are battling it out .

Owners says click lock, no moisture barrier, over 40+to concrete, no leaks or flooding, damage is in select areas, appears to have an odd non vinyl but not MDF core to it based on my digging up a corner after he left.


I told him to get a third party inspector but he didn't want to rock to boat, just yet
 
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Mikey P

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I'd expect even a midwit like Mike would know if clickloc or not...

my best "guess" is cold material that spent a high desert winter night or three in the van and pulled right from the van to the floor.
and/or possibly a cold weather install before the HVAC was operable/running in a rush to complete a rehab
(been there/done that..."once" ) :icon_redface::dejection::hopeless:

Installed over uncured concrete is possible too, but think that less likely

..L.T.A.
This midwit hasn't lost his home due to his midness, so I'm going to place you in the Dim category...
 

FredC

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This midwit hasn't lost his home due to his midness, so I'm going to place you in the Dim category...

I sincerely hope with all my being that this happens to you for making that comment.
 

FredC

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No it's just one more example of why no one should ever tell you anything...
 
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I'm certified in Concrete Moisture Testing and you won't find a ph less than 9..

I bet they didn't moisture test prior to installation, so ultimately it's the installers fault even if you have the homeowner sign a wavier.. The court will say "you are the professional".. I've seen it play out time and time again..

If a moisture testing isn't performed prior to installation, kiss the manufacture warranty goodbye..
 

Mikey P

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This valley is so peterified the only way it's the concret is if there is a very odd spring below that very spot, which is possible, small srpings are all over, letting the pressure off Lake Tahoe, I suppose...
 
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Most likely doesn't have a fully functioning vapor barrier under the slab.. It degrades over time between 25-30yrs.. Our soil is slightly acidic here, so it's only lasts 25yrs on average.. Topically applied moisture mitigation product over correct profile substrate is needed to control the how much vapors are coming through the slab..
 

Nomad74

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I'd expect even a midwit like Mike would know if clickloc or not...

my best "guess" is cold material that spent a high desert winter night or three in the van and pulled right from the van to the floor.
and/or possibly a cold weather install before the HVAC was operable/running in a rush to complete a rehab
(been there/done that..."once" ) :icon_redface::dejection::hopeless:

Installed over uncured concrete is possible too, but think that less likely

..L.T.A.
Larry, You are onto something about the uncured concrete.

I recently had a flood in my bathroom. The leak traveled under the tile and into my walk-in closet. I thought I had a leak in the closet under the slab, so I ripped out all the carpet in the closet. Once the leak was fixed my wife wanted hardwood in the closet. Ok, so I've dried everything in the closet, ordered some flooring, then placed it loosely in the closet so it could acclimate while I was gone on my Mexico adventure.

Last night I was working in the closet pulling the base boards and tac strip, when I picked up one of the boards off the floor it had some green mold on the back. It looked like it has soaked up some remaining moisture from the slab, even though I thought it was dry. apparently it wasn't as dry as I thought.

I'm glad I discovered this now and not before putting down the wood flooring. I'll be gluing it down because I'm not a fan of floating floors. I installed a heater in the closet and might also put a dehu in there for a few days. I'll Seal the concrete floor with a moisture coating, then start the process of gluing in the flooring.

The moisture moving through concrete is a real thing. It's susceptible to capillary pull and hydrostatic pressure. If I didn't let that wood plank sit there for a week, I would have never known. The feel and look says dry. The board says different.

Also, the OP shows flooring that was glued down but Mikey says it's floating click lock. I would read the instructions. Many click lock floors also state they can be glued down. That is what I'm doing in my closet. It has the option for both. Glue is a better option in my mind. I don't like how floating floors sound or move around. All the lippage in that pic looks like someone mopped it and the floor isn't water proof. Not saying that is it, but it looks to me that way. Also many say water resistant, but it's just the thin top layer. The edges and bottom are not.
 
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Mikey P

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This business is back on my books to have me clean all their rubber mats again over the Christmas.

I know the landlord ended up replacing all that failed flooring but I don't recall if the final verdict was ever discovered.
 
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