mOnkey pad blowout?

BUSY BEE

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if their for free..then yeah...I'd use them...but for that price...nah...the floor has to be grounded the directions say..i'll use honing powders on tumbled stones...stonefags....ha....ha...
 

J Scott W

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On Monday and Tuesday of last week, I got to go into the field and clean / polish / seal two large homes including stone showers, walls, counters and floors.

The pads worked great. Even th stone guru who was leading the team was impressed with the results compared to the honing and polishing powders he normally used.

Then I Friday I was down at John place in Orem and di some demo floors. About 1o folks, most of whom had never worked on a stone floor before, were able to polish and restore etch marks and light abrasion using the pads on their first try.

Buy the pads from us or buy them from John or buy them from Jon-don. Get just a little training and you will won't have to turn down those jobs for stone cleaning, light restoration, honing, polishing, etc.
 
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BUSY BEE

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I seem to remember Gary asking why these pads aren't advertised on any stone restoration forums or anything associated with stone restoration....only to carpet cleaners...why is that? Must be some reason for that.....I did see recently that interlink is now selling diamond pads... what's the point for Monkey pads now? More stuff for interlink to sell I guess...
 

J Scott W

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BUSY BEE said:
I seem to remember Gary asking why these pads aren't advertised on any stone restoration forums or anything associated with stone restoration....only to carpet cleaners...why is that?

A good question.

The advantage of Spinergy pads (the brand sold by Interlink Supply), Viper PAds, Monkey pads is simplicity and ease of learning how to accomplish jobs that require removing etches from acid, light restoration due to abrasive foot traffic and so forth. The technicians that frequent stone care forums already are familiar with how to perform those jobs. They don't have much need for Spinergy pads.

What made these pads popular was never that they would do a better job than an experienced stone restorer could do with resin binded diamond discs or metal diamonf discs. Rather it was making it easier for carpet cleaners to get into stone maintenance by teaching and providing the tools for an easier, less messy and more fool-proof way to accomplish some jobs.

Many carpet cleaners at one time were reluctant to clean upholstery. There were new fibers and new weaves and it all seemed a little scary. There was a time when companies wanted upholstery cleaning to be intimidating. Their message was - You had to take their special training or you might mess up big time.

Many carpet cleaners feel the same way about area rugs. It is a big mystery with a lot of liability. You might be told that you can't cleaning area rugs without expensive training, tens of thousands of dollars in equipment and an Armenian last name.

Stone has been that same sort of boogey man. Maybe there are some who don't want carpet cleaners moving into their speciality field. But whatever the reason, many carpet cleaners are scared to get into stone.

Our message is that their are many levels of stone maintenance from simply helping your customer with preventative maintenance tips to cleaning to sealing to light restoration that carpet cleaners can learn to do without years of experience.

Certainly some services do require more traiing, experience and expertise, but many potential clients simply want their stone floors to be clean again.

Bottom line - The market for Spinergy pads never has been experienced stone pros but rather to carpet cleaners who have realized that they don't want to send their clinets who happen to have some stone floors to the competition. They are learning to take care of all the floor care needs of their customers. This includes carpet, tile & grout, wood floors and stone.
 
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Gary T

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What made these pads popular was never that they would do a better job than an experienced stone restorer could do with resin binded diamond discs or metal diamonf discs. Rather it was making it easier for carpet cleaners to get into stone maintenance by teaching and providing the tools for an easier, less messy and more fool-proof way to accomplish some jobs

What makes them less messy? They leave a slurry, right? Easier? Not a chance. Fool proof? No such thing.

Stone has been that same sort of boogey man. Maybe there are some who don't want carpet cleaners moving into their speciality field. But whatever the reason, many carpet cleaners are scared to get into stone

BS typical salesman crap. There is a dire need for TRAINED stone restoration pros. There is nobody trying to keep stone restoration a secret. That is BS used by a salesman to peddles his snake oil. I am willing to help anyone get into the business. But I'm not willing to promote the equivelent of the Rug Doctor in the stone restoration industry.

Is that what you want in the CC industry Scott. A bunch of untrained saps running around with their Rug Doctors calling themselves pros?

Every "stone guru" I know who has tried these things, has no use for them. Galinas posted here how "great" they are.

They are nothing they are marketed to be. They are not faster, cleaner, or fool-proof.


YEAH HAWKS!!!!!!!
 
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Gary T said:
What made these pads popular was never that they would do a better job than an experienced stone restorer could do with resin binded diamond discs or metal diamonf discs. Rather it was making it easier for carpet cleaners to get into stone maintenance by teaching and providing the tools for an easier, less messy and more fool-proof way to accomplish some jobs

What makes them less messy? They leave a slurry, right? Easier? Not a chance. Fool proof? No such thing.

[quote:2b5ewrtc]Stone has been that same sort of boogey man. Maybe there are some who don't want carpet cleaners moving into their speciality field. But whatever the reason, many carpet cleaners are scared to get into stone

BS typical salesman crap. There is a dire need for TRAINED stone restoration pros. There is nobody trying to keep stone restoration a secret. That is BS used by a salesman to peddles his snake oil. I am willing to help anyone get into the business. But I'm not willing to promote the equivelent of the Rug Doctor in the stone restoration industry.

Is that what you want in the CC industry Scott. A bunch of untrained saps running around with their Rug Doctors calling themselves pros?

Every "stone guru" I know who has tried these things, has no use for them. Galinas posted here how "great" they are.

They are nothing they are marketed to be. They are not faster, cleaner, or fool-proof.


YEAH HAWKS!!!!!!![/quote:2b5ewrtc]


will they accomplish what they are sold and marketed to do??? will a heavy 175 a wet vac and some proper training make some money and help a customer???

Gary, go drink a beer and relax. yore wound kinda tight about this!!!
 

Gary T

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Danny. You wanna know why I'm wound tight about this?

I come on these CC boards and read posts about how and why guys claim they are the best carpet cleaner. They bash other guys for using inferior methods, equipment, chems. How they provide a top notch service that they would never compromise for their custys. They provide the absolute best.

Yet they are more than giddy to run in and half-ass a customer's marble floor. Bunch of f'n hypocrites.

And you guys give a pass to the snake oil peddler because he is a respected member of the CC industry for many years. I give him that, but knowledge of stone and t&G is lacking at best.

You might as well grab a Rug Doctor and some soap and compromise on the rest of your business.
 

BUSY BEE

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these pads are to stone restoration what the Rotobrush is to air duct cleaning....half ass over priced stuff....
 

Mikey P

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Bullshit.

You just have to know their limitations.


Lots can be done with Monkeys.


Find me a acid etched Travertine floor and with just one pad I can do some quick and tidy magic.
 
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Mikey P said:
Bullshit.

You just have to know their limitations.


Lots can be done with Monkeys.


Find me a acid etched Travertine floor and with just one pad I can do some quick and tidy magic.


but how would you be able to snow the customer over on how horrible the situation is and how yore stone class knowledge is their only saving grace???

it's a maintenance issuse -vs- restoration. if used to keep the stone looking good and fixing small problems they are working with-in their intended purpose.
 

Gary T

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but how would you be able to snow the customer over on how horrible the situation is and how yore stone class knowledge is their only saving grace???

Same way you would snow one telling them all the special training and chems you need to remove their dog's ass swipe from the carpet. Don't be an ass.

I'm sure there are a$$holes in the stone biz doing that, but that is not how it works in MOST instances.

it's a maintenance issuse -vs- restoration. if used to keep the stone looking good and fixing small problems they are working with-in their intended purpose.

It is not. Those things don't pull etching and scratches worth $hit. They DO NOT cut enough, not even the 200s. And they are by no means faster, cleaner, or cheaper.

Find me a acid etched Travertine floor and with just one pad I can do some quick and tidy magic.

I can do the same thing with sandpaper and a random orbit sander in a fraction of the time and cost. BFD. Try it on a polished Trav. Good luck.


The technicians that frequent stone care forums already are familiar with how to perform those jobs. They don't have much need for Spinergy pads.

What a bunch of crap. The real reason they are not pushed on stone forums, is because we know better!!!! They don't perform as advertised. And we know it, and they're too chickens$it to even come on and argue their point. So they go after the "less knowledgeable"

If they were so much easier to use, were cleaner, faster, and cheaper, EVERY stone pro would be all over these damn things. Because it would make our lives easier.
 

Gary T

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Do you feel threatened by the Rug Doctor?

I am not threatened. None of the guys on Dirty Grout are threatened. None of the guys on Stone Advice are threatened. Or over on NSRA.

Why would I feel threatened by these things? That's what salesmen like to say, to make them seem even more promising. "Hey, these things MUST be great, the stone guys are afraid of them"

Lee, they do not perform as advertised. They are not cheaper, cleaner, faster. Nor do they produce the results that diamonds and powders do.

Would you send a tech to a customers home with a Rug Doctor? It kinda cleans, doesn't it. You don't need a lot of training to use it. It's easier to use. Faster too. You don't have hoses to deal with, that cuts down on time and effort. You don't have to invest in expensive equipment. Really? How many of you top carpet guys would do this?
 

sweendogg

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Gary besides Diamond pads, what about the polishing powders on the market? Like the Stonetech, polishing, honing, and shining powders? good or bad?

Also what do most stone pros use on shower walls, countertops? the smaller diamond disk machines? rather than just bashing the hell out of a product you know does not work well, tell us what you use and what does work.. Enough with the negative vibes! :wink:

p]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuStsFW4EmQp]
 

BUSY BEE

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sweendogg said:
Gary besides Diamond pads, what about the polishing powders on the market? Like the Stonetech, polishing, honing, and shining powders? good or bad?

Also what do most stone pros use on shower walls, countertops? the smaller diamond disk machines? rather than just bashing the hell out of a product you know does not work well, tell us what you use and what does work.. Enough with the negative vibes! :wink:

q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuStsFW4EmQq]
depends on the look the customer wants and what the stone is, kind of a loaded question...stones react to different polishing compounds as well...it's not as easy as the Monkey guys make it out to be...Stone Tech is Aluminum Oxide which works good but very overpriced...if yer really interested go to Dirty Grout.com, SFA, or NSRA and get educated...Monkey pads are like disco music...a lame fad that people are mindlessly spending their money on..just my opinion..
 

sweendogg

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Good thing we are distributer of StoneTech products... makes my life a little easier I suppose. And I understand that different resin compounds for different stones...

Just thought instead of bashing the obviously lessor methods educate us a little bit more. Lead us to water.. even if we don't drink it would still be a nice place to visit!
 

floorguy

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much like that laminator plus bullshit to "seal" and "shine" laminate and/or WOOD :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: over priced mop-n-glow

Sure you can do it for the custy, hell i know i have had to, BUT that was after i educated them on the dos, and donts, the why you can, or why you shouldnt.

Then i do a test area, and let them decide a few weeks later, explaining to them AGAIN, what WONT happen if they dont like it...

I wanna get into a clean and reseal of wood so bad i can taste it, but i dont know what a GOOD product is to put back down...


none of this restoration stuff on wood, thats a whole other set of equipment for that..
 

dealtimeman

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i for one have made alot of customers happy with very little training and effort. i have had multiple customers ask me if there was anything i could do with thier marble or travertine (only two types of stone floors i have done) and i tell them exactly what i am going to do and that is hone the floor a bit and do some light polsihing. i straight tell them that is not a restoration, that is more like maintenance. i called mikey the first few times i did them and from then on i feel like a stone maintenace pro. all my customers are very pleased with both end result, price and how fast (very little downtime of usage of floor ie. hospitals , gas statiions) and i am getting $2-4 dollars a square foot. first one i did almost 8 months ago still look great and i have had numerous referrals.

i think this some guys are getting mad or annoyed because they are loosing market to cc's with a 175 and is not getting the money they used to be making or atleast not as frequently.

all i know is all the stone jobs i have bid on i have done them, customers are most of the time shocked at how cheap it is compared to other companies.

so for me it is working out great.
 

Gary T

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i think this some guys are getting mad or annoyed because they are loosing market to cc's with a 175 and is not getting the money they used to be making or atleast not as frequently.

Don't think too much cause no one I know is losing anything to you guys.


All I'm trying to say is you guys are just not so bright. The salesmen are scaring you rubes into buying their sh*t. I can do the same job faster, with better results, for the same damn price. Why or How? Because I took the time to get some training, and spend a little more on equipment initially. I mainly use a 1.5hp Hawk 15 or 17 in convertible unit. Throw a weighted driver with 3 pads. I also have a much larger planetary that will absolutely smoke you and your chimp pads, but I don't use it too much. The Hawk with 3 pads will smoke those primate, spinny things any day of the week.

You guys are just plain buying the BullSh*t. Don't be scared of a little training and some powders, or polishing creams. No less messy than primates, no more dangerous. Don't buy the BS.
 

dealtimeman

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I see and undertand where you are coming from. I bought the monkeys as an emergency job that my mother law acid etched a polished travertine. they were going to charge her the whole floor including price of new stone. So I did a bit of research online and guys were saying how easy the monkeys were to use with the equipment most of us have on our trucks already. so I went to cobbs and and Larry explained exactly what the pads would and wouldn't do as well as how to do it. With no training other than talking to Larry and mike I "saved the floor" in an hour and a half. The contractor literaly was going to remove the floor the next day and install new tile. Many if the contractors I work for don't want to pay to fix anything they just want to backcharge a vendor and replace with new. Now I jav shown them that is is both more time consuming and costly to replace than for me to hit with my monkey pads. they had other concerns like all dust from th polishing and what not ynhey had heard from other poeples experience and with the monkey process there is no dust. I would like to take multiple classes to learn and master stone but right now we are growing so quickly that is simply not an option.

Please let me reiterate that I do not think I am a stone pro. I just found an easy way to provide a service that in my market people do want to pay top dollar for. So I charge pretty good (about 150 an hour) and custy likes end result. And price point. I thought that the main goal in all services we provide is to make sure customer is completely satisfied and we dis the best job we could do.
 

BUSY BEE

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sweendogg said:
Good thing we are distributer of StoneTech products... makes my life a little easier I suppose. And I understand that different resin compounds for different stones...

Just thought instead of bashing the obviously lessor methods educate us a little bit more. Lead us to water.. even if we don't drink it would still be a nice place to visit!
cool u work for Stone Tech....
 

sweendogg

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No... our master tile setter really liked the company before Dupont bought them and signed on as a distributer for them as one of the earliest distributers they had. He has always given us the distrubter pricing and we sell it retail in our shop, but the price for me is distributer level.
 

BUSY BEE

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BUSY BEE said:
sweendogg said:
Good thing we are distributer of StoneTech products... makes my life a little easier I suppose. And I understand that different resin compounds for different stones...

Just thought instead of bashing the obviously lessor methods educate us a little bit more. Lead us to water.. even if we don't drink it would still be a nice place to visit!
cool u work for Stone Tech....
do u sell the honing products as well? i would like to hear your opinions and experienses about the honing powders u sell....thanks, Bill
 

sweendogg

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As of now.. no, because we mainly sell the cleaning products and sealers to our customers for maintenance. Our stone setter said he tried them when they first came out, but didn't really have the patience and of course he was making very very good money running two installation crews instead of doing restoration work. But he endorses them, and he's been installing Stone, tile and marble for 45 years. He grew up in the stone and tile industry out in Arizona and we are very fortunate he decided to settle in Bloomington.

That is part of the reason I was trying to find out from the stone guys on here what their opinion are on the honing, shining and polishing powders. I have several potential stone jobs coming up and I'd rather use these products than fork over 400 on pads (obviously I get better pricing than most.) But I was curious what most people use on shower walls and counter tops..
 

alazo1

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Diamond equivalent to monkey pads for under $100 bucks.

The easiest and most user friendly polish powder is Diaglo. For a maintenance job, say marble was put down about a year ago and now there are some minor scratches and etching you can either get a 800 grit monkey or 3 1800 grit diamonds followed by polishing with diaglo.

You can get the 3 diamonds (4") here:
http://www.regentstoneproducts.com/item ... EGENTRESIN


Get the flex foams (or make your own) too so it helps go over lippage and makes it easier to handle.
http://www.regentstoneproducts.com/item ... e=FLEXFOAM


Diaglo about $25.00
Diamonds Price $15 x 3 = $45.00
Foam risers about $25.00 or make your own for about $10.00
Horse hair pad about $6 bucks
For a driver you can get an old one that has the pegs and cut them out in 3 sections (see pic).
Use a garden edger material for a skirt around your buffer to protect from slinging

Also , if you're starting at this high of grit you don't need any additional weight on your machine. With mp's you need to add weight because the abrasive they use is not as good as diamonds. Diamonds too are more consistant.

Since you're starting at such a high grit you're still leaving some of the gloss on the marble. This will make polishing easier. Again, this is not restoration and will only take out small scratches and etches (equivalent to monkeys). It will be much faster then mp though. Polishing takes some practice though. With some experience polishing you can use an 800 or even 600 grit diamonds instead of the 1800 and get a bit more deeper scratches / etching.



DSCN0112.jpg


DSCN0114.jpg


DSCN0115.jpg
 

dealtimeman

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i would like to learn how to remove scratches and polish, have a pretty good market within the customers i already work with. thanks for the links.

where did you learn albert?
 

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