My new reminders from Wayne Miller

[Chris Muetterties]

Front of the 6 month

Back of the 6 month

Front of the 1 year

Back of the 1 year

 

[Ron Lippold]

nice

 

[Jeremy]

Pretty sweet! Wayne always does an awesome job on this kind of stuff.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Looks great!

Wayne's awesome!

 

[Walrus Gumboot]

http://www.cleanfrog.com?
Shouldn't you be "branding" a little green frog in your ads?

I think I would. I don't know how,but....





ok,just saw it on your website.
cool.

 

[rhyde]

"In the past, soap was used to clean carpets. Seems logical to clean something with soap, doesn't it? In the case of carpets, soap-based carpet cleaners actually attract dirt in your carpet after its been cleaned, dulls your carpet and spots return quickly, limiting the life of your carpet. Soap-based cleaners are unhealthy for you and your family and harsh on your carpet, so why would you use a soap cleaner? Well, we don't!"

WTF?

i'd like to know of a soap based cleaning product in the industry ...anyone?

 

[Brian R]

I think "Soap Free" is just a way of marketing. Doesn't foam, no residue and all that.
It makes people feel fuzzy to know that there is no "soap" in there carpets. Not to mention it makes the tech feel the same.
I think there is maybe one or two products used. Uhpholstery maybe...I can't remember.

 

[rhyde]

OK,


The IICRC mission statement in part reads ….“to set and promote high ethical standards, and to advance communication, collaboration and technical proficiency.”


the quote from the web page is dishonest or ignorant… Perhaps both. If it was some apartment cleaning hack I would expect it but Chris is an IICRC Master Cleaner and should know there are no soaps used in the commercial formulation of cleaning products.



Other than that it’s think it’s a great site ….the frog is cool

 

[Guest]

So Randy are you saying no cleaners use products like Tide or Simple Green or that purple stuff you buy at Auto Zone? I don't know if those products are soap based but I've seen hundreds of posts over the years on boards where guys brag about using this stuff.

 

[rhyde]

All those products are surfactants not soaps.

Soaps are made by action of alkali on fat or fatty acids, are actually environmentally safe, renewable and have very poor cleaning performance. You could make a case for Fels- Naptha soap w/ Terpine but guys are using it as a spotting product and few at that.


He does say …."In the past” but then why pull it into present day marketing??

 

[Wayne Miller]

As "steam cleaning" is to HWE, "soap" is to explaining what happens when any number of cleaning products aren't rinsed.

"Soap" is a generlization of convenience, no different than the calling HWE steam cleaning.

Enough people have experienced "sticky, soapy" residues that it's smart, not misleading, to explain in language any consumer can understand that your products don't leave a fouling residue.

 

[Brian R]

If you leave your prespray on the carpet...that IS soap to the customer.

 

[rhyde]

I agree it’s one in the same to the average consumer but we're not average consumers are we if anyone should know better it's us

It’s’ not the biggest lie or deception and it’s not going to send any ripples through the industry and I doubt 20/20 will show up on any ones door step but it is a deception. Is there any professional here that doesn’t feel it’s important to educate consumers? This industry if rife with and where there are plenty of substandard unprofessional cleaners….it is something, its dishonest and untruthful it preys on the ignorance & fears of consumers.
Professionals in this industry know the difference between a soap, surfactant & detergents from manufacturers to an IICRC certified MASTER cleaner…which by the way I am not. If this isn’t a line that defines truth & honesty then what is….?

Some Webster’s definitions if I may…..
Honesty; Adherence to the facts
Truth; The body of real things, events, and facts

Dishonest; Characterized by lack of truth, honesty, or trustworthiness
Untruthful; not containing or telling the truth
Deception; Something that deceives

 

[Wayne Miller]

It preys on ignorance and fear?

Would that imply "soap" is more scarey or dangerous than "detergents" or "surfactants?"

Is it?

Cleaning residues are a fact. They can be any number of things including soaps, detergents, surfactants, solvents and more.

We're a society fond of slang. And, the most recognized slang for that whole host of troublesome cleaning residues quite simply and........quite innocently......is "soap."

I get your point, I'd say it's a moot point.

If it's okay to call HWE "steam cleaning" how can it be any less legit to use the word "soap" in lieu of a chemistry lesson?

 

[Chris Muetterties]

WHO THE HELL IS THIS BLOW HARD R HYDE ?

Why in the world is some self impressed marketing hack from *** bad mouthing me in public when we have never met ?

I posted an copy of my reminder cards that Wayne did for me and this BLOW HARD is all over me and my website calling me a LIAR.

 

[rhyde]

Hi Chris, Thanks for replying.

I never called you a liar I insinuated “SOAP” free marketing yours or anyone else is dishonest, untruthful or ignorant or all of the above. As I said before If it was some apartment cleaning hack I would expect it and move on but you clearly not a hack but an IICRC master cleaner and your web & marketing material which is excellent some of the best i've seen drives my curiosity & questioning on the subject.

My intension wasn’t specifically to bust your balls it’s the whole “soap free” marketing…. A product that isn’t used in the industry to clean “SOAP” and the detrimental effects on health & home that largely don’t exist.

There’s a long list of what these products don’t have other than ..SOAP. Detergents or surfactants other petrochemicals, perfumes, Phosphates, EDTA, Alkali builders, VOC’s….


Don’t worry about it Chris I’m a nobody

 

[rhyde]

It preys on ignorance and fear?

Yes Wayne, consumer Ignorance and fear “Soap-based cleaners are unhealthy for you and your family”
I’m all eyes and ears I’d love to see the scientific data?


I agree SOAP is a slang term I expect consumers to be ignorant Not professional cleaners a soap/ surfactant is one of the first things I learned. In general “SOAP FREE” is a slick well thought out marketing program specifically at the top with some manufacturers. vilify a product that isn’t used SOAP side step trashing heavily used products in the industry with …detergents, surfactants, perfumes, Phosphates, EDTA, Alkali builders, VOC’s,

“Why, No Mrs. Smith, our Ultrapac pre-treat has absolutely toxic, harsh, residue leaving, carpet damaging… SOAP in it” wink, wink

Plenty of TM’s heat past 212 F. the boiling point and relative to atmospheric pressure and technically steam clean so I can understand the confusion hot water/ steam. However, there’s no one in this industry I know of that cleans with SOAP with exception of fels-naptha for spot cleaning and at best that’s a minority.


you right it is a moot point... more likely Irrelevant and unimportant.

 

[Wayne Miller]

The statement "soap-free" "preys on ignorance and fear" implies the word "soap" instills terror in an ignorant public.

"CAREFUL BILLY!!!!!! Don't touch that....there's soap in it."

Come on........

"Soap-free" or "No sticky, soapy residue" implies a process that won't leave cleaning "stuff" resulting in rapid resoiling. It's an accurate statement even if you clean with nothing more than straight water. It's effective because some folks aren't real good about cleaning up after themselves when they pretreat. Why it's imperative to explain, statistically speaking, the guy who screwed up your carpet last time probably used a detergent is over my head.

Who doesn't agree, in the text book sense, most carpet cleaners probably don't clean with traditional soap? And, if it were to come up in conversation I'm all for explaining it's highly unlikely carpet cleaners use animal fat to clean. In advertising, though, I can hardly justify a paragraph's worth of definition in favor of a two to 4 word, commonly-accepted-slang based phrase just so we can clarify there is a difference between all those things that could fall under the generally accepted umbrella of "soap."

If the significance of the differences were more than an interesting note in the margin, if it had an actual impact on people or things, if there were some perceived or actual exploitable fear, if anything about it were more compelling than a curious technical inaccuracy, I'd agree it's at least as dishonest as suggesting that -- simply because "some" TM's reach the point of boiling -- HWE cleans with live steam.

 

[rhyde]

The statement "soap-free" "preys on ignorance and fear" implies the word "soap" instills terror in an ignorant public.
"CAREFUL BILLY!!!!!! Don't touch that....there's soap in it."
Come on........

Wayne, I’m not the one saying “Soap-based cleaners are unhealthy for you and your family” Do you believe this statement educates consumers and if so how? As I said before, I’m all eyes and ears to see the supporting evidence for this? When you start getting technical documents together remeber terminology are very specific in the scientific community soap isn’t applicable or interchangeable with surfactants.

IF you think I’m an A-hole about SOAP/ SOAP FREE... don’t even get me started about abuse of the term TOXINS :shock:

 

[Wayne Miller]

It's all in fun, Randy. You did, though, throw the first punch at Chris. lol

We all have different pressure points. Soap ain't one of mine and, perhaps, neither is education. I'm strictly out to make happy customers. That, not education, is what keeps them coming back. If that means educating them, that's fine. If their eye's start to glass over, as they often do, I leave well-enough alone. People are busy. There's no point force feeding information and I'm not out to impress customers with a fancy vocabulary.

It's just interesting you scream foul about something as insignificant as the difference between soaps and detergents yet you give something as blatent as "steam cleaning" a free pass.

I'm a pragmatist, maybe your a purist. It makes for interesting conversation.

BTW, I never said anything was unhealthy for anybody. I'm pointing out that suggesting "soap-free" plays on an ignorant fear of traditional fat and lye soap is ludicrous.

 

[rhyde]

It's all in fun, Randy. You did, though, throw the first punch at Chris. lol.

Your right, wasn’t fair to pick on Chris that wasn’t the intent but the thread started around his marketing and then my comment about text on his web site and that’s where the topic stayed and it got bigger and bigger as it went along then bango i'm trashing a guy i've never meet. I’d apologies to Chris but he’s probably halfway up I-5 with a gun, chainsaw and some trash bags to take the “trash out” all that aside I really do like his web site.

It's just interesting you scream foul about something as insignificant as the difference between soaps and detergents yet you give something as blatent as "steam cleaning" a free pass.

Webster’s defines Steam as… a vapor arising from a heated substance, the invisible vapor into which water is converted when heated to the boiling point , the mist formed by the condensation on cooling of water vapor, water vapor kept under pressure so as to supply energy for heating, cooking, or mechanical work. Water generally boils at 212 F making steam. If a cleaner was saying “hot water cleaning is unhealthy for you and your family only use steam cleaning” believe me I’d be ragging on it too and I wouldn’t find it insignificant but the two Interrelated . Where else would you like to go with this,.?

BTW, I never said anything was unhealthy for anybody. I'm pointing out that suggesting "soap-free" plays on an ignorant fear of traditional fat and lye soap is ludicrous

I was refering to Chris’s site. “Soap-based cleaners are unhealthy for you and your family” I’m asking, do you believe this statement educates or generate irrational fear….IF, it educates then how?

I agree many consumers don't know the difference between soaps and detergents but what about the well educated ones that do, misrepresenting or using slang can hurt you.

 

[John Watson]

Well I met you both, Continue on, It's fair... Your both BIG, Ugly know it alls (Well you know more than me anyways) have big feet, Both known to be mouthy, opininated, rude at times and both have big trucks (If chris is drivin his up the 5 it will take another week or 2 to git to Randy's) Both put your kids first . I think it will be a great match.

"GIT IT ON" Maybe in Vegas???

 

[rhyde]

Chris and Wayne are gonna take turns working me over with a baseball bat in Vegas

 

[Wayne Miller]

lol, Randy.

I read over the "is unhealthy" part. My bad. But........

Don't we preach carpet is a sink and it's unhealthy not to periodically empty the sink?

Isn't it also true that soap (detergent) based products work because of oil-loving properties, characteristics that continue working in the carpet if not removed, creating an environment favorable to unhealthy dirt and bacteria, hastening resoling and filling the sink?

Isn't what fills the sink unhealthy -- including sticky soap (detergent) residues?

Wouldn't that, by default, leave soap (detergent) suspect, possibly even teetering on unhealthy?

Seems to me you could make the case........

BTW, releasing fog and suggesting you're cleaning with live steam isn't dishonest or misleading unless you say it's unhealthy? Okay. I'm gonna attach a fog machine to my rotary and call it steam cleaning, too. lol

 

[rhyde]

Your killing me wayne , using a fog machine would be Dishonest, Untruthful, Deceptive
….FOG is specific term more importantly fog isn’t steam, steam is created by heat fog isn’t. :wink:

This isn’t a fair argument because you’ve chosen something water that can rapidly change properties from steam to water during the cleaning process…but you know that. Soap on the other hand will never become a surfactant or surfactant to soap.


We really can’t have a discussion about resoling of soap (detergent) on a practical level soaps are not used in the cleaning industry and I’m sure they wouldn’t meet CRI requirements. I don’t disagree that surfactant free cleaners keep carpet cleaner.

 

[Ken Snow]

Wow- interesting battle of wits and technicalities. Glad you both backed off the cliff a little and Chris has wisely stayed silent for the later half. I think of it as creative license and it is written for the consumer, not us cleaners so it mayb resonate with them. It does I agree go a little over the edge implying it is unhealthy unless everything used by Chris's company is 100% non-toxic, but what the heck its not for me to judge, I believe ina little creative license.

Great pieces Chris~ kudo to you and Wayne.

Ken

 

[Wayne Miller]

Fog is "the mist formed by the condensation on cooling of water vapor" and I never said it was unhealthy! But, alright already.

I've got a Black & Decker wall paper steamer. Great for red stains. I'll strap it on so it dangles over the front. The water is heated above 212 degrees and I guarantee that little puppy produces more steam than a wand designed to spray a stream of water. Steam cleaning! Happy now? lol

 

[rhyde]

Wayne,


As long as your not using SOAP it’s Steam Cleaning ...... :wink

Also, since you are using steam and not water feel free to call it "dry cleaning" that disinfects carpet

it’s also green, environmentally friendly cuz you don't use soap while your at it toss a penny in the donation jar once a year and you can also say you "heavily support charities'.... :roll:

 

[Chris Muetterties]

Randy,

How is it that a thread about my reminder cards prompted you to come here a bash me ?

It was my understanding that you are one of the official *** marketing guru's so why are you the world soap enforcement officer on MB ?

 

[Wayne Miller]

I finally read what you were talking about, Randy. I have a hard time getting excited about it.

For one thing, it's geared towards his audience so "soap" works for me. And, unhealthy? We'll......

Friday night I went to Red, Hot and Blue. I enjoyed a cold 20 ouncer of Bud Light with some fatty dry ribs and deep fried, generously salted french fries, followed by a sugary sweet bowel of raspberry cobbler with a scoop of yummy vanilla ice cream. After dinner we and our friends retired to the deck for more adult beverages and a cigar.

Compared to a slab of salmon, a glass of filtered spring water and a walk in the night air, I had a relatively unhealthy evening.

The thing about Procyon and its clones is they're safe enough to drink. You can't say that about many soap (detergent) based cleaners. Draw conclusions anyway you like but I'd say the one you can't drink is less healthy for you and your family than the one you can. Is "less healthy" the same as "unhealthy?" I suppose that depends on whether or not the cleaner you use goes good over ice.