my next truckmount may be a major brand

Lee Stockwell · Feb 18, 2014

juniorc82 said:
calls where returned promptly, they paid to have any service related issue fixed at a local agriculture equipment dealership, some parts that where needed did require a follow up call or 2 but we always got them. Ive got around 200 hours on the unit now. My only complaint really is that there was a massive amount of small problems in the beginning and the downtime really hurt. I had a restaurant that I almost lost because I had to come back on 2 separate occasions due to mechanical failures. In all fairness some of the issues where due to a kohler engine which had electrical issues with the starter. That kohler engine also had overheating issues because it is so big that the manufacturer had to create a fan that mounted on the frame to keep the machine cool which helped considerably. My major quam is that I bought a machine that was still new to the field and not tried and tested. This could have happened weather I bought a major brand or a small brand so maybe my thread title is not fair. I think the main thing I will do on my next purchase is make sure which ever machine Ii purchase has a more proven track record ensuring that my business does not have to endure the lab rat phase. This was particularly disappointing because I refered a good friend to buy a machine from the same place and it has been the same story for him, and yes he is being taken care of but none the less he is having a machine with issues out of the gate.

Paragraphs. Please Jon!

We bought two in 2001 and had an interesting ride similar to yours.

Mikey P · Feb 18, 2014

My advice?

Buy truck mounts from companies that have a real college bred engineer on staff.

This just goes to show that even the simplest of units need some brain power behind them.

Desk Jockey · Feb 18, 2014

I think if I wanted a no namer I'd have Ashley build me one. The dude seems pretty damn sharp, not sure about his education but he knows TM's.

Hard to beat a nationwide distributor network though.

hogjowl · Feb 18, 2014

Those college educated engineers always tend to over complicate things to the point where it becomes rediculous. The last time Mike and I spoke regarding my next purchase, we discussed a Sapphire slide in, because of the space savings. He had nothing bad to say about selling me one, but he did warn me about the issues related to the compact design. He told me the days of two hour repairs would be over. I like driving over there and back in the same day.

Mike, I mentioned heat exchanges the last time I was there. Mike said "we have one sitting back there right now that gets good heat." I got the impression the demand just wasn't there.

Richard, TCS has distributers up the east coast, but when you make dependable units as simple as they do, ANY local shop can repair them. The parts are locally available.

ruff · Feb 18, 2014

How long have you had their machine Marty?
How many times did you have to go back for everything to run well?
How many repairs (you or a shop)?

If we can gather real (and honest) data in a place like this, it will give us much better information regarding true reliability.

Desk Jockey · Feb 18, 2014

Simple is good if you turn wrenches and if you do I'd buy one of the smaller brands with no hesitation. Some of you guys are excellent mechanics, top notch!
I wish you lived closer to me, you'd be my best friend! :winky:

I am not, I can do a little but I'd prefer to do what I do best and it's not working on machines. I hate busting my knuckles and don't have the patience for a frozen rusted part. I'd much rather my distributor do the work, stock the parts so I don't have to get dirty or chase down parts.

Lee Stockwell · Feb 18, 2014

As an entry level machine, instead of a garage built, I'd REALLY suggest a good used Sapphire, ProChem, or other PROVEN machine.

Mikey P · Feb 18, 2014

don't overlook the El DIablo HX unit.

which should be at MF as well.

JS41035 · Feb 18, 2014

Lee Stockwell said:
Paragraphs. Please Jon!

We bought two in 2001 and had an interesting ride similar to yours.

Gosh I'm having flashbacks to grade school. No worries Jon he's not human.

....

juniorc82 · Feb 18, 2014

That el diablo hx system defiantely looks like a prospect. Might also give some thought to a prochem legend. I wish tcs did have a hx unit as I would give that consideration as well.

My next will just be the replacement for my current back and will also be the summer overflow van so I wont need to be a monster. think right now my only concrete demand is it will need to bea 45 blower machine

Shane Deubell · Feb 18, 2014

Drives me crazy to hear people say "its easy to work on". :icon_rolleyes:

I want a machine that doesn't need to be worked on...
Rather spend my time selling jobs and providing service then learning small engine repair.

But whatever works for ya.

hogjowl · Feb 18, 2014

Really Taco. Think about that for just a second. You seem to think that your local distributor won't work on a machine unless it's complicated?

Doc Holliday said:
Simple is good if you turn wrenches and if you do I'd buy one of the smaller brands with no hesitation. Some of you guys are excellent mechanics, top notch!
I wish you lived closer to me, you'd be my best friend!

I am not, I can do a little but I'd prefer to do what I do best and it's not working on machines. I hate busting my knuckles and don't have the patience for a frozen rusted part. I'd much rather my distributor do the work, stock the parts so I don't have to get dirty or chase down parts.

Desk Jockey · Feb 18, 2014

No dude, he makes it complicated if he didn't sell it to me. You would think he would see that he's making money on the service. However if we call with a problem on a unit he didn't sell to me, its on the back burner, last on the list until he can get around to it. :icon_neutral:

Spurlington · Feb 18, 2014

I love the open design .. I've changed out my own pump, fuel pump,filter, belts and hoses .. I've also replaced my own temp gauge, ignition switch and pressure regulator ..

I imagine it'd be cheaper for a mechanic to work on an open design .. less labor hours !!

hogjowl · Feb 18, 2014

Lee Stockwell said:
As an entry level machine, instead of a garage built, I'd REALLY suggest a good used Sapphire, ProChem, or other PROVEN machine.

I often wonder how a guy that's been around as long as you have can come up with the things you do? The only thing you said correctly was "proven". All three have proven themselves to be over-engineered, complicated and hard to work on.

I guess I should cut you some slack, since other than the Nick-o-matic you were so in love with for a couple of years, all you seem to have ever owned were the complicated ones. I supposed you'll counter that you're a mechanic and know how to work on complicated things, but like I mentioned with Richard, there is no reason to HAVE to work on complicated designs when simple ones are available.

When you boil it down to the basics, there is only ONE reason to purchase any of the designer brand machines, and that's for heat exchange heat. If you have an aversion to propane, then you have to be willing to sacrifice simplicity for that option. (Unless you're willing to go to Texas, which is what brought us to this thread in the first place.)

I have been somewhat hesitant to bring up TCS over the years because I didn't want to bring false accusations against them. Anytime I bring up a product or machine that I like, a few of you seems to need to dis it just because. I understand and accept that. I deserve it. However, TCS doesn't deserve my the baggage that comes along by being associated with me.

I'm sure there has to be other dependable Mfg's of simply designed units. I just haven't found another. These guys at TCS are just freaking DEPENDABLE! You never catch them on a bad day!

Ofer- With the exception of one Prochem (my first TM, which I absolutely HATED), and the Vortex (which I loved to clean with, and hated to park and drive), all I have ever owned is a TCS unit. I have owned their Warriors, two, which were great, and I now own a Chief II, which is ever greater! If my next truck is for crew operation, then it will have another Chief II in it. If I decide to stay on the road for a while longer, it MIGHT have a direct drive in it.

Might ...

Desk Jockey · Feb 18, 2014

If I were an owner op I might still consider propane but as a multi truck owner heat exchange is less problematic and safer for those in-experienced with lighting a pilot light.

These guys aren't stoopit but I'm still afraid they could be careless enough to do something foolish and I don't need another work comp claim. Heat exchange alleviates that issue so I can worry about them doing something else....foolish. :errf:

hogjowl · Feb 18, 2014

There's nothing "problematic" with propane. It's simple. If you can clean a burner ring every couple of months, you're good to go.

As for the safety issues ... sure, you can burn the hair off your arms on occasion. I've done it twice in 26 years. It didn't even leave any first degree burns. The hair was the only casualty.

It's simply all in what you're used to. If all I'd ever ran were heat exchange units, then I'd probably have a girly fear of propane too.

Desk Jockey · Feb 18, 2014

Clean the pig chit out yor ear. The tech's not me! I ran propane for decades with no incidents, its safe if you respect it.

Our propane supplier is also out of our way, it would require a planned trip there during regular working hours to fuel up. Multiply than by several trucks and you've also wasted a bit of man hours that could have been spent producing income. Throw in the cost of the secondary fuel and I don't even know I'm talking to you!

Lee Stockwell · Feb 18, 2014

hogjowl said:
I often wonder how a guy that's been around as long as you have can come up with the things you do? The only thing you said correctly was "proven". All three have proven themselves to be over-engineered, complicated and hard to work on.

I guess I should cut you some slack, since other than the Nick-o-matic you were so in love with for a couple of years, all you seem to have ever owned were the complicated ones. I supposed you'll counter that you're a mechanic and know how to work on complicated things, but like I mentioned with Richard, there is no reason to HAVE to work on complicated designs when simple ones are available.

When you boil it down to the basics, there is only ONE reason to purchase any of the designer brand machines, and that's for heat exchange heat. If you have an aversion to propane, then you have to be willing to sacrifice simplicity for that option. (Unless you're willing to go to Texas, which is what brought us to this thread in the first place.)

I have been somewhat hesitant to bring up TCS over the years because I didn't want to bring false accusations against them. Anytime I bring up a product or machine that I like, a few of you seems to need to dis it just because. I understand and accept that. I deserve it. However, TCS doesn't deserve my the baggage that comes along by being associated with me.

I'm sure there has to be other dependable Mfg's of simply designed units. I just haven't found another. These guys at TCS are just freaking DEPENDABLE! You never catch them on a bad day!

Ofer- With the exception of one Prochem (my first TM, which I absolutely HATED), and the Vortex (which I loved to clean with, and hated to park and drive), all I have ever owned is a TCS unit. I have owned their Warriors, two, which were great, and I now own a Chief II, which is ever greater! If my next truck is for crew operation, then it will have another Chief II in it. If I decide to stay on the road for a while longer, it MIGHT have a direct drive in it.

Might ...

We've had EXCELLENT heat and production from the several Prochem 405's. If you can read, their PDF manuals make service easy. For the most part, they are well engineered. It's very nice that they are exactly identical, which often isn't the case with the one at a time builders.

That's why I'd suggest a newbie go that route.

hogjowl · Feb 18, 2014

Doc Holliday said:
Clean the pig chit out yor ear. The tech's not me! I ran propane for decades with no incidents, its safe if you respect it.

Our propane supplier is also out of our way, it would require a planned trip there during regular working hours to fuel up. Multiply than by several trucks and you've also wasted a bit of man hours that could have been spent producing income. Throw in the cost of the secondary fuel and I don't even know I'm talking to you!

THAT is the only issue related to propane. Filling is a problem until you obtain your own tank. A business the size of yours would certainly need a tank on site.

JS41035 · Feb 18, 2014

I love that term "over engineered". Just because something is complicated or simple doesn't make it over or under engineered. It usually is just a manufacturer adding things that there customers have asked for. Some of that stuff is problematic. I hate kill switchs for temp and oil pressure that aren't accompanied by a gauge that would make diagnose so much easier. But I still like complicated and well thought out over simple and thrown together. What would you recommend for your kid to start driving? A really cool dune buggy with neat parts that's easy to work on? Or an over engineered Camry with 100000 miles.

....

Desk Jockey · Feb 18, 2014

hogjowl said:
THAT is the only issue related to propane. Filling is a problem until you obtain your own tank. A business the size of yours would certainly need a tank on site.

NO way!
Now that.......sounds dangerous. Hell half a dozen of those guys smoke. Boom! BIG boom! No no no!

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I have a 1000 gallon tank at home.

I try not to think about what would be left of my home if the furnace malfunctioned.

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hogjowl · Feb 18, 2014

That's like asking how you want your eggs. Scramble fresh, or two days old and spoiled? It's a terribly stupid example and totally non-related to the issue we are actually discussing.

We're not discussing kids, or even cars. We're discussing professional equipment.

I'm perfectly willing to intelligently discuss pertinent issues with reasonably cogent information, but I'm not willing to get into an endless Mardee discussion with people who can't formulate a logical argument.

dgardner · Feb 18, 2014

Something that is well engineered can be very complex yet intuitive and easy to operate (like the IPhone in your hand). Well engineered things don't appear to be complex, which means that unless you're an engineer, you probably won't appreciate the thought that went into a design....

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JS41035 · Feb 18, 2014

We aren't discussing eggs. Stay on topic

....

dgardner · Feb 18, 2014

I had a ham & egg croissant for breakfast..... The egg was scrambled.

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JS41035 · Feb 18, 2014

I like scrambled eggs. Super easy to work on.

....

dgardner · Feb 18, 2014

I think poached eggs are over-engineered......

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Desk Jockey · Feb 18, 2014

hogjowl said:
That's like asking how you want your eggs. Scramble fresh, or two days old and spoiled? It's a terribly stupid example and totally non-related to the issue we are actually discussing.

We're not discussing kids, or even cars. We're discussing professional equipment.

I'm perfectly willing to intelligently discuss pertinent issues with reasonably cogent information, but I'm not willing to get into an endless Mardee discussion with people who can't formulate a logical argument.

Personally I don't care for eggs.

Jim Martin · Feb 18, 2014

I have worked on different types of machines and all kinds of things most my life....

you want quality....you go to quality people...

you want simple and cheap....you can go anywhere for that....and you get that you get.......

there is not a single one that is perfect.......but quality machines have quality people backing them up.......

my next truckmount may be a major brand

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