My wickback redo yesterday...

[Mikey P]

5 ounces of PadCapPro which is a Steve Smith product so you know it's FULL of plasticy polymers so be more than enough to coat the fibers enough to effectively eliminate the chance of soil (in this case spotter residue and urine) from "crawling" its way back up to the tips, right?

Ultimately isn't that what encap is really all about?

I had a long conversation with an original IICRC Shareholder yesterday who still runs a mega truck company, he was asking my opinion on encapsulation as they are finally getting around to offering it. He want to know if I believe in it, which I do in the sense that it makes carpets look great for a long time, wick backs are super rare and customers love it, but I don't believe for a second that your customer's vacuum bag will contain pounds of polymer coated soil the following week.

I think he was sold on that actually being the case.


You all know where and when I perform VLM, but it got me thinking, could a truckmount be designed around leaving enough polymer behind in the rinsing process to effecting coat the fibers as well as when using a CIMEX or OP?

A pump that could handle the residue and a metering system that would leave that crucial 4 to 6 ounces per gallon behind, and still be cost effective?


ramble over and out.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

You need someone smarter about machines and smarter about chemistry to give you a precise answer.

There are currently products made by Bridgepoint, Pros Choice, and a few others that are made to go through the chemical injection system of a truck mount. Bridgepoint has label directions for adding their product, Encapugard, right ino the metering system, too.

Those products and systems likely are not leaving the amount of product you seem to be outlining here. If you've tried above products with this approach, and find them wanting, and you want to leave a higher percentage of residue behind, these are my thoughts from some related experiences:

1. I think you can get the metering system to dump that high of a concentration onto the carpet. What number on the flow meter that might be will need also to consider variances caused by your jet sizes. I miss Shawn Forsythe on this one, as I know he'd have that number in his head.

2. My biggest worry is what the a high percentage of encap residue would do to your flow meter and check valves. If you don't rinse it out well afterward, I'm fairly convinced it would coat the insides of the system and cause problems.

 

[Desk Jockey]

So the window failed you? Or did you fail to look at the window?

 

[The Great Oz]

Hey Aussie Mike, when you get this figured out, you can sell MegaRez franchises.

 

[Mikey P]

So the window failed you? Or did you fail to look at the window?

I was too busy admiring my boots

 

[Mikey P]

Hey Aussie Mike

Aussie?

 

[Mikey P]

I would imagine you'd have to put the chem feed hose directly into a gallon jug of undiluted encap and meter at 1 or 2 to really get the effect

 

[Desk Jockey]

I was too busy admiring my boots

LOL

 

[Jim Pemberton]

I would imagine you'd have to put the chem feed hose directly into a gallon jug of undiluted encap and meter at 1 or 2 to really get the effect

If that would be the case, I doubt the injection system would last the job before clogging.

Get Tom Forsythe on the phone on this one. I'm not thinking you would have that high of a percentage of material left on the carpet to acheive the ends you seek.

 

[Jimmy L]

Only about a golf ball size of polymer in a concentrated gallon of scampoo. Maybe less.

You do the theory of how much actual polymer is in a RTU solution and spread out over the 200-400 sq ft of carpet. How much polymer is actually left on the carpet? I say............not a whole lot.

And I would never run a "Plastic" filled solution thru my solution hose.
Look for plugged tips and filter screens.

Just look at "EnCApSULaTIoN" as a cheap way of getting in the door scampooing and never to return. I call it "SCAM N' GO"

 

[Rick J]

Isn't Encapuguard meant to be POST applied, for this very use. ?
I would think metering it would really dilute it way too much.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

This from the spec sheet Rick:

"As an Encapsulating Booster for Hot Water Extraction Acid Rinse Agents 1. For portable extractors, mix one ounce of solution with 5 gallons of premixed acid rinse detergent 2. For truck mounts, add 8 ounces of solution to five gallons of premixed acid rinse concentrate. Set solution flow meter at 2-3 gph."

Based on most metering systems, that's a very low amount of actual product in the rinse, but that's why I'm hoping Tom Forsythe will chime in here.

I've only used it as a post application myself, to be clear.

 

[Tom Forsythe]

We have an encapsulate in End Zone not to provide any residual benefit in the carpet at extraction but to negate a slight re-soil tendency by another chemical in End Zone. Adding more encapsulate should assure neutral re-soiling for the system even if a re-soiling pre-spray is used.

The math does not work as it is a small percentage in any rinse diluted 1 to 320 followed by an extraction of 70% (polyester) to 90% (nylon). An encapsulate diluted 1 to 32 will leave roughly ..6% to .9% polymer. An encapsulating rinse at 1 to 320 will spray .06% to .09% and after extraction leave .006% to .009% in the carpet. In short, 100 times the polymer is left in normal applications versus normal extraction. Even if you go direct from the bottle and extract normally you will still be short 10 times the polymer. The effectiveness of the rinse will not be the same and issues with equipment are bound to be an issue. The shortcut might save labor cost but will also use more product than necessary.

 

[Sierra Clean Care]

And you guys say I over complicate things....
3 gallon pump sprayer, post spray, rake it in, walk away...

 

[Jimmy L]

Waste of time

 

[Dolly Llama]

use it as a pre-spray

..L.T.A.

 

[Mikey P]

use it as a pre-spray

..L.T.A.

Huh?

 

[Desk Jockey]

He doesn't know what he's talking about. I often wonder IF he ever did. I

 

[Nomad74]

I use it all the time in my rinse. Up the acid and the encap to prevent wicking.

 

[Dolly Llama]

Huh?

you'll leave more behind using it as pre-spray than the minuscule amount in wand rinse

if Chavez thinks he's removing all the pre-spray, he's been kicked in the head too many times by those mules he feeds

.L.T.A.

 

[sassyotto]

wow, just think if one of our customers read this thread. 15 different thoughts on the process.........

 

[Nomad74]

wow, just think if one of our customers read this thread. 15 different thoughts on the process.........

More than one way to skin a cat.

 

[Mikey P]

you'll leave more behind using it as pre-spray than the minuscule amount in wand rinse

if Chavez thinks he's removing all the pre-spray, he's been kicked in the head too many times by those mules he feeds

.L.T.A.

He's all yours Marty...

 

[Dolly Llama]

you're stOOpit too if you think you're removing all the pre-spray

here's a test

wand clean with just water .
walk across to tile

Next use pre-spray and wand rinse
Now walk across to tile

tell me which one is more slippery

it ain't fookin rocket science

..L.T.A.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

you'll leave more behind using it as pre-spray than the minuscule amount in wand rinse

if Chavez thinks he's removing all the pre-spray, he's been kicked in the head too many times by those mules he feeds

.L.T.A.

I’m not prepared to completely agree with Uncle Larry without more facts, but I will share this:

Some years back John Downey visited with the Steamin Demon, a portable that used high water volume under low pressure that some of you might have used.

We went to a local EMS base that I used for truck mount demos and overall kept clean as a contribution to the community for about 5 years.

Each time I did it, I (over) applied the original Prochem Ultrapac “stinky” Trafficlean and “rinsed” with Prochem All Fiber Rinse. No one else ever cleaned the place.

The Steamin Demon had a window, and I was shocked at the white detergent I saw being removed, and how many passes it took to get it to rinse clear.

I learned a lot that day.

So can you leave enough residue with a prespray for encap to work?

Perhaps...

 

[Nomad74]

We could all just clean carpets with leaf blowers.

 

[hogjowl]

Why me, Mikey?
Surely you can spell Sheetrock!

 

[SamIam]

You need someone smarter about machines and smarter about chemistry to give you a precise answer.

There are currently products made by Bridgepoint, Pros Choice, and a few others that are made to go through the chemical injection system of a truck mount. Bridgepoint has label directions for adding their product, Encapugard, right ino the metering system, too.

Those products and systems likely are not leaving the amount of product you seem to be outlining here. If you've tried above products with this approach, and find them wanting, and you want to leave a higher percentage of residue behind, these are my thoughts from some related experiences:

1. I think you can get the metering system to dump that high of a concentration onto the carpet. What number on the flow meter that might be will need also to consider variances caused by your jet sizes. I miss Shawn Forsythe on this one, as I know he'd have that number in his head.

2. My biggest worry is what the a high percentage of encap residue would do to your flow meter and check valves. If you don't rinse it out well afterward, I'm fairly convinced it would coat the insides of the system and cause problems.

Sorry I was busy hahahaha

 

[SamIam]

5 ounces of PadCapPro which is a Steve Smith product so you know it's FULL of plasticy polymers so be more than enough to coat the fibers enough to effectively eliminate the chance of soil (in this case spotter residue and urine) from "crawling" its way back up to the tips, right?

Ultimately isn't that what encap is really all about?

I had a long conversation with an original IICRC Shareholder yesterday who still runs a mega truck company, he was asking my opinion on encapsulation as they are finally getting around to offering it. He want to know if I believe in it, which I do in the sense that it makes carpets look great for a long time, wick backs are super rare and customers love it, but I don't believe for a second that your customer's vacuum bag will contain pounds of polymer coated soil the following week.

I think he was sold on that actually being the case.


You all know where and when I perform VLM, but it got me thinking, could a truckmount be designed around leaving enough polymer behind in the rinsing process to effecting coat the fibers as well as when using a CIMEX or OP?

A pump that could handle the residue and a metering system that would leave that crucial 4 to 6 ounces per gallon behind, and still be cost effective?


ramble over and out.

Ask @John Olson or a chemist from Prochem.

All fiber deep clean has polymers for anti wick anti resoil.

Or you could
Post bonnet everything with a encap

 

[Mikey P]

Why me, Mikey?
Surely you can spell Sheetrock!

Or AquaVelva brand prespray .