need help fixing vct

[matt sheppard]

hey guys

i need help fixing a vct. i stripped and waxed it 4 weeks ago, came out great. used 3 coats of andersens durabrite ( 29% solids). went back to buff it and my supplier was out of white pads, so he sold me a "hair" pad and some spray buff. i used it as directed with my 175 and now the floor looks hazy. please help!!! btw it is a hair salon and the floors a black and white checkerboard



thanks
matt

 

[Ron Lippold]

most likley bunch of hair spray clean and re buff

 

[Larry B]

It sounds like you used a little too much spray buff and didnt buff long enough with the 175.

Using spray buff with electric burnishers that spin around 2200rpm will normaly take 2 to 3 passes after spray buff is used to get a shine. So using a 175 with hog hair pads will take some work to dry the spray then buff out the shine.

In short buff it again without the spray.

 

[matt sheppard]

thanks

 

[Mikey P]

What exactly is Spray Buff?

 

[Larry B]

I dont know what all its made of but you get the same effect by mixxing finish and a little water.

You spray it on VCT finish before you High speed burnish or in his case buff with a 175. It restores the shine and helps remove scratches.

IMO purchasing spray buff is a waste of money.

 

[matt sheppard]

larry

what would you suggest then? i was a lille leary at first but the rep sowre by the stuff, yeh i probably shoulda known better but i dont usually do maintenance on vct. just strip and wax. but the owner of the salon is a good friend of mine, she just bought the shop and i'm trying to help her out. so i'd really appreciate your input. for instance should i ditch the hog hair pad and get a white pad. i checked on craigslist and a local restaurant owner has a nearly new clarke 1700rpm machine for $500. would that be a better option than my 175?

btw mikey, i'm scrubbin carpets like mad with an ice blue pad, rinsin, and post padding with a green striped pad and some chemspec rotobrite. its working awesome. thank you very much sir.

 

[Gary T]

You need heat and friction with the spray buff and the vct finishes. A 175 will do it but slowly and for some finishes not at all. A 1500 or 2200 generates the heat and friction necessary. If you don't plan on doing vct much you can rent a machine.

 

[Larry B]

larry

what would you suggest then? i was a lille leary at first but the rep sowre by the stuff, yeh i probably shoulda known better but i dont usually do maintenance on vct. just strip and wax. but the owner of the salon is a good friend of mine, she just bought the shop and i'm trying to help her out. so i'd really appreciate your input. for instance should i ditch the hog hair pad and get a white pad. i checked on craigslist and a local restaurant owner has a nearly new clarke 1700rpm machine for $500. would that be a better option than my 175?

btw mikey, i'm scrubbin carpets like mad with an ice blue pad, rinsin, and post padding with a green striped pad and some chemspec rotobrite. its working awesome. thank you very much sir.

IMO the hog hair or white on a 175 is too much work. (use red on the 175)

You need more speed if you want a good high gloss shine with little work. The 1700 rpm machine would be alot better than the 175. Spray buff will add to the shine and sales people will tell you anything but next time add 2 to 4 oz of finish in a hand spayer of water. It will work just as good if not better. Dont allow it to dry before you hit it with the machine.

You need heat with the spray buff and the vct finishes. A 175 will do it but slowly and for some finishes not at all. A 1500 or 2200 generates the heat necessary.

100% correct The only thing I would add is if you are going to find more work like this add a small propane burnisher to your list 3000+ rpm and no work.

The floor you are working on now I would just go mop it and use your 175 with a new or clean red pad.

 

[matt sheppard]

cool larry i'll try it tomorrow.

thanks for your advice

 

[Larry B]

Matt we have some stuff at the shop that worked very good with 175 machines for buffing. I cant remember the name at this time but I will get it when I go to the shop in the morning. We only use high speeds now unless stripping but I know we still have some of this product on the shelf.


Will let you know.

 

[steve frasier]

from what I have done, you are using the wrong type of finish to expect any good results from spray buffing

29% solids generally has no repairability and spray buffing is a waste of time unless you have propane buffer, you are better off scrubbing and recoat, probably take less time also

I know a local guy that still slow speed spray buffs with a red pad an ammonia but his wax is lower in solids

 

[Fon Johnson]

Matt, first you need to mop the floor and make sure it is clean. Any hair products left on a floor will haze the finish when you buff (especially that solar oil for cuticles and some of the hair gels that wind up on the floor.) It will be nearly impossible to get a shine with ANY natural blend pad using a 175. Also, is the pad a white blend or a tan blend? The tan blend will swirl almost any finish for the first few times even with a UHS machine until the finish is hardened some. You CAN get a shine with a 175, but you need red pads, white pads, and a little more time. Spray buff will help, but be careful not to overuse it as it can load up the pad. What might be even better for you is to mix a bottle of neutral cleaner and use it as a spray buff. This will help remove contaminants from the floor and allow you to "pop" the shine. Spartan has a great spray buff, but do not get the super spray buff which contains solvents. That one will cause all but the best of pros problems. Johnson's spray buff works well, but it will load your pad and cause scratching and swirling after some time.

You may need to spray clean it with a red pad and then dry buff with a white pad untill you get more gloss. The hair pad will probably do nothing more than frustrate the pee out of you..
The reason is they way they work. You need the heat generated by the abrasiveness of the hair (usually hogs hair) to heat up the finish. This is best achieved with a UHS machine. The hair also adds some natural lubrication to help prevent burning, but it won't really help with a 175.

Mikey, spray buff formulas vary from company to company but most are a neutral cleaner, solvent, finish, wax emulsion, or a combination of any of those. It will actually remove soil from the floor (similar to bonnet cleaning) and give a higher shine. The ones that contain some finish or wax eumulsion will help reduce minor scratches and "burnout". A pro with a good spray buff and a high speed (even a 175 for the GOOD oldtimers) can get results equal to or near that of a propane burnisher, it just takes more time.