New Dual Purpose Hi-Performance Extractor 2GPM @ 650 PSI

[Larry Cobb]

Finished our 1st Extractor with new Cat 2 GPM 650 PSI pump system yesterday.

It is the 1st Extractor that combines a 2 GPM Cat Pump System for great Tile & Grout cleaning . . .

with Dual Hi-Airwatt 3-stage Vacs for maximum extraction on carpet.

http://www.cobbcarpet.com/zen/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=85&products_id=5203

All of this in a 117 lb. package with 12' rear wheels.

Next enhancement to come is a new efficient copper Heat-Exchanger design,
operated by exhaust heat on this model:
View attachment 3782

Larry

 

[dgardner]

Next to come is a new efficient copper Heat-Exchanger design,
operated by exhaust heat on this model:
View attachment 3782

Larry

Ooh - are we infringing on the Powr-Flite Perfect Heat patent?

View attachment 3783

 

[Larry Cobb]

Ooh - are we infringing on the Powr-Flite Perfect Heat patent?

Not hardly, Dan.

Our original use in Truckmounts, has been cited in industry patent disputes.

Long before PF used a copper coil around the vacs in their portables.

Ours will have less pressure restriction also and better utilize the exhaust of the vacs.

Larry

 

[Goomer]

Any pics of the internal component layout and plumbing for Chavez??

 

[Art Kelley]

What is the amp draw per cord, Larry?

 

[Larry Cobb]

What is the amp draw per cord, Larry?

Good question, Art.

The primary cord is 18-19 amps depending on pressure setting.

(For Grout & Tile cleaning the second 3-stage vac could be left off for 8 amps on this cord)

The secondary cord is 12 amps.

These low current draws are possible with more efficient vac motors and dual capacitor Marathon pump motor.

My customers with this extractor have not had any problems with circuit breakers.

Larry

P.S. Not releasing photos of the HX model at this time.

 

[Goomer]

P.S. Not releasing photos of the HX model at this time.

I could not be less interested in increasing my water temp by 9 degrees using a heat exchanger on a porty..........pics of the non-HX model will be just fine.

 

[Larry Cobb]

I could not be less interested in increasing my water temp by 9 degrees using a heat exchanger on a porty..........pics of the non-HX model will be just fine.

We are looking at the equivalent of a 1000 watt heater,
without using any electricity.

Some internal photos of the 3/4 HP extractor clean design :
View attachment 3789View attachment 3790
Pump has Quick-Connects; Vacs are mounted with separate stacks to recovery tank.
View attachment 3792 Easy Pump Pressure Adjustment

Larry

 

[dgardner]

I could not be less interested in increasing my water temp by 9 degrees using a heat exchanger on a porty..........pics of the non-HX model will be just fine.

We are looking at the equivalent of a 1000 watt heater,without using any electricity.
I will shoot some internal photos of the 3/4 HP extractor Monday.
Larry

Larry, Goomer was being generous. If your HX is really as efficient as a 1000W electric heater, then with your 2GPM flow we would expect a 3.46 degree rise (with continuous flow) if you do the math. I doubt that you would see 9 degrees even with intermittent flow....

 

[Larry Cobb]

Larry, Goomer was being generous. If your HX is really as efficient as a 1000W electric heater, then with your 2GPM flow we would expect a 3.46 degree rise (with continuous flow) if you do the math. I doubt that you would see 9 degrees even with intermittent flow....

Dan;

The 2 gpm flow is only @ max pressure for Tile & Grout cleaning.

Carpet is about 1.5 GPM.

Using 1 GPM for upholstery cleaning @ 50% duty cycle,

would give you 4X the temperature rise.

Also by turning the machine on a few minutes before usage,

the water will be preheated for those tough spotting jobs.

The heat exchanger has no downside,

other than adding a few pounds to the machine weight.

Larry

 

[dgardner]

How about:

Increased machine cost
complexity (more stuff in the way when I'm trying to service the darn thing)
something else to leak
something to descale

Don't get me wrong - extra heat is not a bad thing - but buyers will have to weigh the cost for a very few degrees. For some it will be worth it no doubt.

 

[Larry Cobb]

Dan;

A Heat Exchanger makes far more sense . . . .

than the 1000 Watt electric heaters that limit the vacuum power in many extractors.

And it IS more reliable, while costing less.

Larry

 

[Lonny]

Looks like a very clean layout in the shell. Pumpout option?

 

[dgardner]

Dan;

A Heat Exchanger makes far more sense . . . .

than the 1000 Watt electric heaters that limit the vacuum power in many extractors.

And it IS more reliable, while costing less.

Larry

No argument there, of course I think a 1000W electric heater in a porty makes no sense at all, given the cost, amp draw, and the meager heat gain.

 

[Willy P]

Now if I plugged my 3250 watt heater downstream, with the 230 degree thermostats, there should be some rippin' temps even at higher flow. I often wondered about that wasted heat.

 

[dgardner]

Willy, with your heater, Larry's HX, 1.5 GPM and 50% duty cycle (like wand keyed on the backstroke, off during the upstroke) you will see about a 39 degF rise. If you preheated your water to 140 degF (the limit of most pumps), you could achieve a pretty respectable temp, but the 230 degF thermostat won't really help much because you won't get anywhere near that temp during actual use.

Of course, if you let the solution just set inside the heater, you can warm the water inside it (the whole quart or so) to whatever the 'stat will allow, but as soon as you key the wand you're back to the usual....

 

[Willy P]

Willy, with your heater, Larry's HX, 1.5 GPM and 50% duty cycle (like wand keyed on the backstroke, off during the upstroke) you will see about a 39 degF rise. If you preheated your water to 140 degF (the limit of most pumps), you could achieve a pretty respectable temp, but the 230 degF thermostat won't really help much because you won't get anywhere near that temp during actual use.

Of course, if you let the solution just set inside the heater, you can warm the water inside it (the whole quart or so) to whatever the 'stat will allow, but as soon as you key the wand you're back to the usual....

Um,nope.You're right that it won't hold the 230, but if the exchanger Larry is working on is placed to heat the tap hot water after the pump and lives up to the expectations, the temp rise with a good inline heater system should give you consistent 180 plus all day long. I never run more than 50 feet so heat loss from the heater - 15 feet in the heater to the 35 foot lead hose, is really minimal. The 3250 watts is placed in 2 separate heating segments, with the first opening at 180, the second stage at 230. Jetting is a bigger key when using electrical heat as well. I ran 6 flow and choked it back to a 3 flow - not only do I get 3 to 4 hour dry times, I also have a bigger run of well heated water to work with and higher psi impact on the fiber. Flow is greatly overrated.
Now let me tell you about the time I ran two 3250 watt heaters in line.......

 

[Goomer]

How about:

Increased machine cost
complexity (more stuff in the way when I'm trying to service the darn thing)
something else to leak
something to descale

I agree.

Any full time, elite porty hack like myself, who logs machine hours at a decent rate, knows that component replacement and repair can sometimes be more frequent than not. Vac motor swaps and pump rebuilds/maintenance are par for the course.
My first impression is that integrating a heat exchanger into both the plumbing AND the vac exhausts will greatly complicate any future maintenance procedures.
I see no benefit in complicating this important, sometimes frequent process in any way for such a meager temp increase.

 

[Art Kelley]

There's great potential here. Noise could be reduced with the HX using vacuum exhaust, which would reduce (but not eliminate) the problems and annoyances of the painful and unsafe high pitched whine of the dual vacs. That, in itself, is worth the extra time for the occasional motor exchange.
If the amp draw could be brought down to 15 on each cord by using a 350 psi flowjet type solution pump, a small flowjet waste pumpout, and hi efficiency vacuums, it would be usable on more jobs where 20 amp lines may not be available. A separate auxiliary hi-pressure pump for tile work would save a lot of weight and complexity.

I agree.
Any full time, elite porty hack like myself, who logs machine hours at a decent rate, knows that component replacement and repair can sometimes be more frequent than not. Vac motor swaps and pump rebuilds/maintenance are par for the course.
My first impression is that integrating a heat exchanger into both the plumbing AND the vac exhausts will greatly complicate any future maintenance procedures.
I see no benefit in complicating this important, sometimes frequent process in any way for such a meager temp increase.

 

[dgardner]

Um,nope.......... I ran 6 flow and choked it back to a 3 flow.....

Well, duh - at 3 flow you're probably flowing less than 1 GPM, my calcs were for 1.5 - so sure, with preheating you could maintain 180's.

 

[Mikey P]

Larry how many of this new design are out in the field being tested?

 

[ruff]

Looks good Larry.
One of the issues with portables, is that they get knocked around traveling in the back of the van, being unloaded and or going over stairs.
Which can be hard on fittings. Would using stronger inside fittings (Stainless steel instead of brass) help?

 

[Desk Jockey]

I like to hearing that Frank replaces his components regularly.

Check those vac's a year two years down the road, are they still pulling like they were new? Lucky if they do half of what they should. Too many guys just run them until they fail with no thought of replacement until it's forced.

I weep for the porty hack industry.

 

[dgardner]

Check those vac's a year two years down the road, are they still pulling like they were new? Lucky if they do half of what they should. Too many guys just run them until they fail with no thought of replacement until it's forced.

Excellent point. It's funny that all TM's (that I know of) come standard with a vac gauge, but I don't think any portys do. If they did we would see the decline in performance.

The only downside to having one would be the laughter as the TM guys walk by and see the numbers on the gauge....

 

[Goomer]

I like to hearing that Frank replaces his components regularly.

Check those vac's a year two years down the road, are they still pulling like they were new? Lucky if they do half of what they should. Too many guys just run them until they fail with no thought of replacement until it's forced.

I weep for the porty hack industry.

I always knew that deep down inside you really cared...........but you really don't know what your talking about Chabbezz.

VERY LITTLE, IF ANY change in performance over time with electric vac motors until they begin to show the early warning signs of failure which will be noticeable changes in the pitch and sound of the motor (at first intermittent but with increasing regularity as time goes by) as the bearings begin to go, or the brushes start to go. Usually more than enough warning time to swap it out before complete failure.

Very little down time for this Proprietor of the Porty..........

 

[Desk Jockey]

I'll agree. You know far more than I ever care to remember about running porties. Now I run from them!

A few weeks ago Dan said we probably really need to get a new portable.

That fooker is soo out of touch with carpet cleaning. Oops!

Not that there is anything wrong with using one.....really its fine for all of y'all to clean with them!


Hey if that's what I'm know for I can live with it....or even die with it. I want my headstone to say "Portable's SUCK!"

 

[NobleCarpetCleaners]

What the sound level standing next to it in a family room? I mean with a meter, not in an open showroom type setting. Roll it into yer office and shut the door with a meter.

 

[Goomer]

I want my headstone to say "Portable's SUCK!"

I will make sure that when your time finally comes, that your last wishes are carried out as you desired........I just need to know one small detail.......Do you want the inscription to be above or below the image of Our Lady of Guadalupe??

 

[Larry Cobb]

What the sound level standing next to it in a family room? I mean with a meter, not in an open showroom type setting. Roll it into yer office and shut the door with a meter.

This machine can use the optional silencers for occupied environments. They cut the noise level down a lot.
I'll have to check it with the sound meter.
View attachment 3800~ $39 a pair.

Larry

P.S. Electric vac motors do a good job of maintaining their lift until they self-destruct.
If you don't put them up wet, they can give 750 to 1000 hours of service.
New designs offer 1500 hours of service.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Larry do those also filter air?