Ok Pro's how would you handle this ?

[Chris Muetterties]

You get a call from the local hotel and some kids set of the fire sprinkler's and it went though 2500 gal of water. Tell me how you would do it ?

 

[Chris Muetterties]

What would be you first concerns about this loss and how would you categorize it ?

 

[steve g]

be giddy with all the money I am going to make. then start extracting water from the upper most floor, the key here is to start doing something, the people in these situations are upset and frantic, it puts them at ease seeing the water extracted at a rate much greater than they thought possible. then of course do your usual drying methods. I have done dozens of hotel floods, they are all big money makers, nothing complicated about it normally, just make sure you have help and plenty of equipment, and of course the knowledge on how to dry everything

 

[KeithCo]

We've had this conversation on the board before with little agreement.

Is fire sprinkler water cat.2 or cat. 3?

We'll probably get a 50/50 disagreement again.

 

[Jack May]

For 'small time restorers', one of the biggest nightmares/wet dreams (depending on how you look at it) when they eventually do get the big one, they often are awed by the enormity of the extent of the damage... and end up floundering, often in front of the decision makers and sometimes even loose the job.

You almost need blinkers as you deal with different areas. Of course, a wider picture is essentil so you don't start on the ground floor and work UP on a multi storey flood loss :roll:

But in reality, you narrow it down into 'bite sized' pieces. Think about the last good sized flood loss you handled, think about HOW you handled it, and then start looking at the new job as a whole group of those sized jobs all on the one site... if need be, or if you have the resources, delegate different teams into these smaller 'losses' a section at a time.

The same goes for pricing these larger jobs.

Just a few thoughts from a different angle.

John

 

[Desk Jockey]

Very cautiously, 15-years ago we lost $9,000.00 on a 3-floor hotel water loss. We still do them and we get paid, but we are very, very cautious.

We don't just run out there without finding who is responsible for payment getting their approval on a ball park estimate on the scope of work.

Commercial properties is where having thermal cameras really helps determine and document what's wet and when it's dry.

Be careful about introducing air into the wall cavities, most Hotel's have vinyl wall paper which is notorious for having mold growth from windows, AC unit, and previous water losses.

Extraction and drying is easy, it's all the other things to be worried about.

Safety-trip and fall hazards, falling materials, shock and fire.

Document everything, pictures and sign off's for refusal of recommendations.

 

[Chris Muetterties]

As always Keith posted my first concern.


What do the S-500 say ?

Aren't all sprinkler systems supposed to keep a log with the dates and times of the flushing ?

 

[Guest]

I would start on the top floor in the furthest point in the first room, I would extract with my trusty sub-surface extraction tool, spray some antimicrobial, rinse with my wand, and set my airmover. Then I would just keep doing that till I was all done and collect the check.



Oh yeah, go back the next day and get the airmover!

 

[Desk Jockey]

I don't know cat 2?

There was no fecal matter, 2500 gallons can go a long way towards diluting what ever was sitting in the lines.

If we were doing it we wouldn't rip it out, we would dry and clean it.

Is this another grey area in the Standards?
Isn't it amazing how you have to be able to think and make decisions based on what the situation is....and the Standards can only guide you, but it's up to you to make the call. :shock:

 

[Guest]

You gotta do it right or don't do it at all, PAL!!

You gotta rip it all out!! :shock:




:roll:

 

[KeithCo]

Gray area of the standards for sure.

We need a sprinkler guy to post.

I know there's different systems and I had heard an oldtimer say
they would put glycol in the lines sometimes to act as an anti-freeze.

If that's the case it would be cat 3.

Keith

 

[Desk Jockey]

So Keith, if it were glycol and cat 3, does that mean tear out?

How much of it? All affected areas? 2,500 gallons could affect a lot of area. Would you walk if they refused to tear it out?

Not to put you on the spot, but just for debate.

I would think most risk managers would tell you to take a hike if you tell them it's all coming out.

With the exception being if the loss exceeded their deductible they might go along with the tear out decision?

 

[Desk Jockey]

We would probably dry as long as all parties knew what the deal was.

 

[cu]

if it was me
i would get of the phone and shout ...YES
then i would get over there and sign them up
then i would call yaser and tell him to get of his camel and get up to the job with trucks and equipment
agree a split with yaser , stand back and watch everything and learn more

plus i would go with cat 3

 

[SRI Cleaning]

I don't know cat 2?

There was no fecal matter, 2500 gallons can go a long way towards diluting what ever was sitting in the lines.

If we were doing it we wouldn't rip it out, we would dry and clean it.

Is this another grey area in the Standards?
Isn't it amazing how you have to be able to think and make decisions based on what the situation is....and the Standards can only guide you, but it's up to you to make the call. :shock:

i agree i dont think it would be cat 2. 2500 Gal will dilute alot. Also alot of systems are filled with air.

 

[Chris Muetterties]

Not sure if this is Cat 2 ?


With out a doubt this is a Cat 2. Depending how long this water has been sitting stagnant is the real question. I was talking to a Fireman on this subject and he told me of the horror stories about Fireman inhaling this horrible water and how bad the pneumonia is from it. There was no doubt from him how bad the water in the Sprinkler Systems are.


Lets look at the idea that 2500 gallons and out of that lets say only 250 gallons are black water. Does diluting it make the bacteria go away ? Has anyone talked to I/H on this subject ?

 

[Desk Jockey]

Lets look at the idea that 2500 gallons and out of that lets say only 250 gallons are black water. Does diluting it make the bacteria go away ? Has anyone talked to I/H on this subject ?

Chris
For discussions sake, not trying to give you a hard time:

How would the bacteria be any different that that that carpet cleaners deal with on a daily basis? Would it not be less of a problem now that it has been diluted by two thousand two hundred and fifty gallons of water?

Carpet cleaners daily deal with bacteria from pet and human urine. Yet we do not dispose of the carpet unless it is truly saturated.

I would agree on a few losses of this type we have had odor that was similar to a sewage backflow.

However the majority in appearance and odor are no different than a regular pipe break.
:?:

 

[Chris Muetterties]

R.Chavez :shock:

So true I see cleaners and restorers cleaning things all day long that is trash from a health stand point. Does that make it right ?

So I guess there comes a point where is a restorers choice to make money and ignore something or do it right. I am not sure of the choice I would make.

What about a pet filled rug that was flooded with fresh water 6 hours before............ save it or rip it ?

 

[Desk Jockey]

I don't think it's so much about money, I think you would still come out of the loss with more than enough to make the average person happy.

To me it's about what the customer wants, it's their property.

I would of course explain any limitations I might have in processing their decision, should their be any.

My ultimate goal would be a win win situation, one where the homeowner is happy and I was too.

 

[Chris Muetterties]

Great reply