S
sam miller
Guest
Burtz said:
I've seen the videos he probably gave the dude 2 hours of Vacuuming for free! blowme
Dave it was the Mom not wife! Iseeru
If I spent half a day Vacuuming I would need at least fity cents a sq ft G
One of THOSE customers
- Thread starter Ron Werner
- Start date
I've seen the videos he probably gave the dude 2 hours of Vacuuming for free! blowme
Dave it was the Mom not wife! Iseeru
If I spent half a day Vacuuming I would need at least fity cents a sq ft G
S
sam miller
Guest
PS
I cosign everything Mikey says it makes me feel Impotent!
UHHHH I mean important oops. shiteatinggrin
I cosign everything Mikey says it makes me feel Impotent!
UHHHH I mean important oops. shiteatinggrin
Ron Werner
Member
client told me long ago
you can give
Best Price,
Best Service
Best Quality
but you can't give all 3 at the same time
I've seen what comes out of carpets and how hard it is to tell whats there ahead of time
So I can drop my price, but that requires dropping something else
I think it was Meat that suggested I'm ripping off those people that have cleaner carpets, charging high price taking longer in dirtier places.
It came to me today about Room Pricers, aren't they ripping people off charging $X/room when one is 200sf and the next 100sf? Or are they giving great value cleaning the bigger room at the same price?
you can give
Best Price,
Best Service
Best Quality
but you can't give all 3 at the same time
I've seen what comes out of carpets and how hard it is to tell whats there ahead of time
So I can drop my price, but that requires dropping something else
I think it was Meat that suggested I'm ripping off those people that have cleaner carpets, charging high price taking longer in dirtier places.
It came to me today about Room Pricers, aren't they ripping people off charging $X/room when one is 200sf and the next 100sf? Or are they giving great value cleaning the bigger room at the same price?
B&BGaryC
Member
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2007
- Messages
- 4,667
- Name
- B&BGaryC
I don't think you charge enough for what you deliver. That being said, I think you over-deliver. Caring more about a carpet than the person who owns it is very common among cleaners who care about results. Perhaps you could tier your service. Just try it on the next few people who call. Call it a sale. Run it for 2 weeks. Figure out what your costs are for vacuuming thoroughly but like a sane person. This will take 30-45 minutes for 1000 sq ft instead of 50-80 minutes. This will even allow you time to pick the worst traffic lane and spend an extra 5 or 6 minutes getting it all. Apply a lighter coat of prespray in the lightly soiled areas and make a quicker extraction pass. Apply the regular amount of prespray to the traffic lanes and give them a thorough flushing. Spend a little less time dinking around with fans and showing things to the customer. Charge a fair price for that service. Whatever your market will allow. Give people the option of the best cleaning ever that will take forever, or still a better cleaning than they can find anywhere else, but not the best you can do. Price both out and explain the difference. Even let them know you are torn between giving people what they want and giving people what they need. Sell your top notch Wernerized service as something that everybody needs. They need it for health. They need it to protect their investment. They need it to reverse damage done to the carpet and prevent more from happening. They need it because they need to know their kids are crawling on the cleanest floors in town. However, if the price you quoted doesn't meet their projected budget you can still give them a better cleaning than anybody else can, it just won't be your best. You might leave something behind.
Maybe the way you could explain the difference is with how carpet hides soil.
It looks clean even after a year of use. That means it hides a year worth of stuff. After 2 or 3 years it looks dirty and people clean for the first time. If the carpets look like they came clean it means they only have 1 year of dirt and grime in them. If it's important to get ALL the dirt and grime, even the unseen stuff, you need the Wernermatic Super Deluxe....
Anyway, just a thought. Sorry for rambling.
Maybe the way you could explain the difference is with how carpet hides soil.
It looks clean even after a year of use. That means it hides a year worth of stuff. After 2 or 3 years it looks dirty and people clean for the first time. If the carpets look like they came clean it means they only have 1 year of dirt and grime in them. If it's important to get ALL the dirt and grime, even the unseen stuff, you need the Wernermatic Super Deluxe....
Anyway, just a thought. Sorry for rambling.
Ron Werner
Member
Thanks Gary, the best ideas come out of ramblings.
Since I've seen what comes out of a carpet I have a tough time going backwards.
2hrs for 2 guys cleaning a 1000sf, they are still rushing through there like they were intent on leaving as soon as possible. There have cleaners like that around for decades, hence why a lot of carpet is being ripped up and carpet cleaners have a bad rep. There are some good "fast" cleaners, they leave the carpet decently clean, clean "enough" for the customer to be satisfied year after year. I've asked clients if they thought I was taking too long and they appreciated the fact I WAS taking my time. Their last cleaner was a blur and nothing about them stood out enough for them to remember who it was.
When you work on an extreme, people will either love you or hate you.
I was rethinking the Packaging concept. Just have to work out how to do the quotes with my software. Give them 3 different levels of service.
If I was going the two man route I would rather 2 guys take 3-4hrs, do the job right, charge 40-45/sf, 800-900/day for say 6-8hrs, 100-150/hr, we're not bustin our balls, we're not in a hurry, we look like we care about and enjoy what we're doing, have time to move fans, corner guards, etc. Easier to sustain and add on any extra work if needed.
Oh, and I never wear booties while cleaning, only once its cleaned and I'm walking back in. Thats just a waste of time and serves no purpose. If there isn't a good reason for doing it, why do it?!!
Since I've seen what comes out of a carpet I have a tough time going backwards.
2hrs for 2 guys cleaning a 1000sf, they are still rushing through there like they were intent on leaving as soon as possible. There have cleaners like that around for decades, hence why a lot of carpet is being ripped up and carpet cleaners have a bad rep. There are some good "fast" cleaners, they leave the carpet decently clean, clean "enough" for the customer to be satisfied year after year. I've asked clients if they thought I was taking too long and they appreciated the fact I WAS taking my time. Their last cleaner was a blur and nothing about them stood out enough for them to remember who it was.
When you work on an extreme, people will either love you or hate you.
I was rethinking the Packaging concept. Just have to work out how to do the quotes with my software. Give them 3 different levels of service.
If I was going the two man route I would rather 2 guys take 3-4hrs, do the job right, charge 40-45/sf, 800-900/day for say 6-8hrs, 100-150/hr, we're not bustin our balls, we're not in a hurry, we look like we care about and enjoy what we're doing, have time to move fans, corner guards, etc. Easier to sustain and add on any extra work if needed.
Oh, and I never wear booties while cleaning, only once its cleaned and I'm walking back in. Thats just a waste of time and serves no purpose. If there isn't a good reason for doing it, why do it?!!
Ken Snow
RIP
We have found a 2 person crew will generate far more addition revenue than the incremental cost of the 2nd man so profits actually go up.
Work Comp is actually the smallest part of our employee costs.
SUTA, FUTA, Soc Security, Medicare, Health benefits, 401k STD, LTD all combined are almost 30% of payroll depending on the employee. Work Comp is less than 6%.
Here is an example (assumption is the work is there).
$700 day in and day out by solo operator
$1000 a day with 2 person crew (assistant/trainee is the second person)
pay the assistant 10% of gross, plus some bonus incentives either monthly or qurterly so let's say the poential is equivelant of 12% or $120 a day. Add 30% for taxes, SUTA, FUTA and W/C and basic health insurance plan (they should contribut at least 20% of premium)
You are now up to $156.00 of employee cost for the additional $300 in revenue,. You will have your COS costs as well but those stay relatively flat as a % based on volume
You can see that if the above scenerio played out there would be an additional $146.00 a day gross profit by having an assistant. Plus you have someone learning the ropes getting ready to take over the truck/crew when you can't be on it or you want to grow.
Ken
Ps I think my example is conservative and the reality is even better~ again as long as the business is there.
Work Comp is actually the smallest part of our employee costs.
SUTA, FUTA, Soc Security, Medicare, Health benefits, 401k STD, LTD all combined are almost 30% of payroll depending on the employee. Work Comp is less than 6%.
Here is an example (assumption is the work is there).
$700 day in and day out by solo operator
$1000 a day with 2 person crew (assistant/trainee is the second person)
pay the assistant 10% of gross, plus some bonus incentives either monthly or qurterly so let's say the poential is equivelant of 12% or $120 a day. Add 30% for taxes, SUTA, FUTA and W/C and basic health insurance plan (they should contribut at least 20% of premium)
You are now up to $156.00 of employee cost for the additional $300 in revenue,. You will have your COS costs as well but those stay relatively flat as a % based on volume
You can see that if the above scenerio played out there would be an additional $146.00 a day gross profit by having an assistant. Plus you have someone learning the ropes getting ready to take over the truck/crew when you can't be on it or you want to grow.
Ken
Ps I think my example is conservative and the reality is even better~ again as long as the business is there.
Royal Man
Member
Ron Werner said:
The client telling you this was a complete idiot!!
Many companies do this day in and day out and it's very easy to do.
Ron Werner
Member
don't forget the added expense of the bookkeeper/accountant to take care of all that stuff
or the added time for me to figure it all out !gotcha!
Dave,
You telling me that about my client is foolish
You've just explained how and why SO MANY companies go OUT of busn
You CANNOT provide THEE Best Service and THEE BEST Quality at THEE BEST Price.
You CAN provide the first two but at a HIGHER price, but it won't be the BEST price.
And if you lower your price to BE the BEST price, then one or both of Service and QUality will take a hit because you just cannot afford the time or the resources to keep that up, you won't have the profit.
I think most guys on here would say from a customers point of view, that $100/whole house would be a Great price, maybe even the BEST price he could find. But you get what you pay for, so what would that customer expect? Would he expect corner guards and air movers and booties and prevacuuming, moving furn and replacing with protective blocks and tabs, complimentary spotter, free spot cleaning should something happen within 30 days? ALL for $100?!!
Show me someone doing that.
or the added time for me to figure it all out !gotcha!
Dave,
You telling me that about my client is foolish
You've just explained how and why SO MANY companies go OUT of busn
You CANNOT provide THEE Best Service and THEE BEST Quality at THEE BEST Price.
You CAN provide the first two but at a HIGHER price, but it won't be the BEST price.
And if you lower your price to BE the BEST price, then one or both of Service and QUality will take a hit because you just cannot afford the time or the resources to keep that up, you won't have the profit.
I think most guys on here would say from a customers point of view, that $100/whole house would be a Great price, maybe even the BEST price he could find. But you get what you pay for, so what would that customer expect? Would he expect corner guards and air movers and booties and prevacuuming, moving furn and replacing with protective blocks and tabs, complimentary spotter, free spot cleaning should something happen within 30 days? ALL for $100?!!
Show me someone doing that.
Royal Man
Member
The word "Best" means different things to different people.
Best service could be the fastest or the slowest.
Best price could be the most or the least.
It's all relative.
The best car could be a Lamborghini or a Smart Car.
That's why you can easily offer the best Quality, Price and Service.
You just have to define best for your clientele.
Personally I think the word Best is meaningless since itis so vague and I'd rather use the word Value.
Best service could be the fastest or the slowest.
Best price could be the most or the least.
It's all relative.
The best car could be a Lamborghini or a Smart Car.
That's why you can easily offer the best Quality, Price and Service.
You just have to define best for your clientele.
Personally I think the word Best is meaningless since itis so vague and I'd rather use the word Value.
Ken Snow
RIP
I agree 100% Dave. The client defines best for them.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
Ron Werner
Member
well shit, You're the Best cleaner on here Dave :roll:
Ron Werner
Member
Oh, and Rug Drs are definitely the Best now, they have Platinum SOA, have to be the "best"
Royal Man
Member
Ron Werner said:
First Ken and now you.
I knew you would eventually see the light.
Ron Werner
Member
Dave Yoakum said:
S
sam miller
Guest
Not to be a jerk years ago on tv a local company lowball advertising 2 rms 6 bucks did a seniors 2 rooms and a sofa for $800.00
People had a fit and rightly so. There does seem to be apoint when its gets to 20 to 25 percent value of what your cleaning that
replacement on a warn carpet might be a better investment.
Like guys who dye carpet wall to wall at a dollar a foot thats $9.00 per yard for usually beat up carpet, for a rental it may be fine,
But a home owner living on it I would suggest buying new is best!
No matter how great at soil removal we become we cant replace fibers if the there is wear or fiber loss restoring a carpet to the
way it was when it was installed is not possible. So it becomes a point of investment and value, most people dont make a $1000.00
a day so no matter how much You do they will question the value if the are people who shop and compare.
lastly would You pay a maid a $100.00 an hour to Vacuum all day??? Most people think I can do that but using a 20k truckmount is
what they'll pay for.
Suggesting Your Vacuuming techniques removes way more soil then others who spend half the time when in your Videos they show
dimenishing returns to get a small amount of dust by repeating over the same areas means Your probably getting 5 to 10 percent
more soil out then a comparable cleaning elsewhere.
Still if Your going to charge .55 a sq ft and getting it by all means keep doing what your doing.
My cousins gets .45 cents a foot in Florida and use to use 3 cups slurry 1 cup liquid pro 1 cup ultra pac meter it at 10 and flood the
carpet with the wand to prespray then extract it out and call it complete carpet restoration. I cant even talk to him about what he's
doing because he's been doing it for years 25 plus So experience isnt always the best teacher and sometimes it is.
Sorry for the Book Keep sucking after all isnt that what we do best.
People had a fit and rightly so. There does seem to be apoint when its gets to 20 to 25 percent value of what your cleaning that
replacement on a warn carpet might be a better investment.
Like guys who dye carpet wall to wall at a dollar a foot thats $9.00 per yard for usually beat up carpet, for a rental it may be fine,
But a home owner living on it I would suggest buying new is best!
No matter how great at soil removal we become we cant replace fibers if the there is wear or fiber loss restoring a carpet to the
way it was when it was installed is not possible. So it becomes a point of investment and value, most people dont make a $1000.00
a day so no matter how much You do they will question the value if the are people who shop and compare.
lastly would You pay a maid a $100.00 an hour to Vacuum all day??? Most people think I can do that but using a 20k truckmount is
what they'll pay for.
Suggesting Your Vacuuming techniques removes way more soil then others who spend half the time when in your Videos they show
dimenishing returns to get a small amount of dust by repeating over the same areas means Your probably getting 5 to 10 percent
more soil out then a comparable cleaning elsewhere.
Still if Your going to charge .55 a sq ft and getting it by all means keep doing what your doing.
My cousins gets .45 cents a foot in Florida and use to use 3 cups slurry 1 cup liquid pro 1 cup ultra pac meter it at 10 and flood the
carpet with the wand to prespray then extract it out and call it complete carpet restoration. I cant even talk to him about what he's
doing because he's been doing it for years 25 plus So experience isnt always the best teacher and sometimes it is.
Sorry for the Book Keep sucking after all isnt that what we do best.
Burtz
Member
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2009
- Messages
- 1,065
funny with all those years of vacuuming you would think ron would get it right
WRONG!!!!
watch his video
he goes real slow on the forward stroke ( no pun intended )
fast on the back stroke
we all know you pick up more dirt on the back stroke
WRONG!!!!
watch his video
he goes real slow on the forward stroke ( no pun intended )
fast on the back stroke
we all know you pick up more dirt on the back stroke
Ron Werner
Member
and how would you know that Alex?
B&BGaryC
Member
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2007
- Messages
- 4,667
- Name
- B&BGaryC
55 Cents a foot doesn't seem that bad. Especially if he doesn't measure the whole room but only the cleanable space. I think 40-45 is right on for competent cleaning. I think the problem is with our industry as a whole and how we have responded as a nation to everybody screaming FIRE about the economy in the crowded movie house of your subconscious. People have all been turned into value shoppers by Rush Limbah, Hanity, Beck, etc.
It is bringing the quality of goods down. I can't find reliable DJ equipment. All the manufacturers are changing. It used to be you could buy QSC amps and have them for 30 years. Now I am better off buying Behringer because they are made off the same design only Behringer costs $400 instead of $1500 for the same thing.
It all breaks, it all falls apart, it's all disposable. There isn't quality anymore. The quality of EVERYTHING is going to go down. Service, products, anything. We are going to value shop our way into being a 3rd world country.
Ron should be able to easily get 55 cents a foot because nobody in the area worth a crap should be charging less than 40 cents and the average should be 45. However that's not the case. People's perception of the Economy is that everything should be next to free because if it's not next to free here they can bully somebody else into doing to for next to free there. I also think Groupon and the popularity of other coupon and web services have done a detriment to the service industry. Services like that tend to reward those with questionable business practices. I know honest people can make money off Groupon but it is a lot more difficult. The owner had an opportunity to interview a bunch of customers at a dinner party. Somebody dropped a plate and the homeowner said, "Don't worry, we will just call B&B!" 5 other couples spoke up about how they all loved B&B Carpet Cleaning and specifically mentioned me and our tech by name. Somebody later asked Marty what he did for a living and he said, "I own B&B." This opened up the opportunity for him to ask questions about what they like and what they look for. Every single one of them loved the free spot cleaner and every single one of them said they are always looking for coupons and they love coupons and we should run more coupons. These were upper middle class to upper class homeowners who didn't seem like they would be coupon hunters.
All of that aside, I am switching to By the Room Pricing for an average discount on the average job of $25-$50 which is about what I save not having to do an estimate. Plus, it sounds cheaper and easier to wrap your brain around. The customer feels like they know exactly what they are getting and the savings are not so much that we cannot make money. I am responding to what the customer wants and I am trying to do it in a manner that doesn't sacrifice quality. Would I like to charge 55 cents or 45 cents a square foot? YES! Do I think my service is worth it? YES! I can't even imagine all the extra time I could spend working on difficult spots, all of the DCI lights and wallpaper steamers I could have running. Having the freedom to do whatever it takes to get it the best it can be every time would be a blessing. Never having to sacrifice the end result due to a time crunch, never having to tell somebody something won't come out when you mean they can't afford for you to take it out. It would be great. But that is not what the customer wants, not when there are plenty of other competent cleaners willing to promise them the world for 22 cents a square foot and give them what they perceive to be clean and spot free carpets.
It is bringing the quality of goods down. I can't find reliable DJ equipment. All the manufacturers are changing. It used to be you could buy QSC amps and have them for 30 years. Now I am better off buying Behringer because they are made off the same design only Behringer costs $400 instead of $1500 for the same thing.
It all breaks, it all falls apart, it's all disposable. There isn't quality anymore. The quality of EVERYTHING is going to go down. Service, products, anything. We are going to value shop our way into being a 3rd world country.
Ron should be able to easily get 55 cents a foot because nobody in the area worth a crap should be charging less than 40 cents and the average should be 45. However that's not the case. People's perception of the Economy is that everything should be next to free because if it's not next to free here they can bully somebody else into doing to for next to free there. I also think Groupon and the popularity of other coupon and web services have done a detriment to the service industry. Services like that tend to reward those with questionable business practices. I know honest people can make money off Groupon but it is a lot more difficult. The owner had an opportunity to interview a bunch of customers at a dinner party. Somebody dropped a plate and the homeowner said, "Don't worry, we will just call B&B!" 5 other couples spoke up about how they all loved B&B Carpet Cleaning and specifically mentioned me and our tech by name. Somebody later asked Marty what he did for a living and he said, "I own B&B." This opened up the opportunity for him to ask questions about what they like and what they look for. Every single one of them loved the free spot cleaner and every single one of them said they are always looking for coupons and they love coupons and we should run more coupons. These were upper middle class to upper class homeowners who didn't seem like they would be coupon hunters.
All of that aside, I am switching to By the Room Pricing for an average discount on the average job of $25-$50 which is about what I save not having to do an estimate. Plus, it sounds cheaper and easier to wrap your brain around. The customer feels like they know exactly what they are getting and the savings are not so much that we cannot make money. I am responding to what the customer wants and I am trying to do it in a manner that doesn't sacrifice quality. Would I like to charge 55 cents or 45 cents a square foot? YES! Do I think my service is worth it? YES! I can't even imagine all the extra time I could spend working on difficult spots, all of the DCI lights and wallpaper steamers I could have running. Having the freedom to do whatever it takes to get it the best it can be every time would be a blessing. Never having to sacrifice the end result due to a time crunch, never having to tell somebody something won't come out when you mean they can't afford for you to take it out. It would be great. But that is not what the customer wants, not when there are plenty of other competent cleaners willing to promise them the world for 22 cents a square foot and give them what they perceive to be clean and spot free carpets.
