Our Industry....."STATE OF THE UNION".....

randy

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Extraordinarily relevant thread. Thanks for starting it Harper.
I had a fantastic March, but April & May so far has really been horrible. In times like this I'm thankful to have other businesses.
Although the economic situation effects different areas differently , as a nation we have a long way to go before this recession comes to a close. With unemployment at 10% overall and gas prices at $4.00 plus, you have to know we are still in hard times. The owner/ operator that can operate with extremely low overhead and NO SHOP/warehouse RENT to pay can make it through about anything by cutting back and busting his butt working 24/7. The larger operator with 3-10 trucks better have a huge line of credit to keep things afloat. I hear what Harper is saying about commercial and would only add that it is also impossible to really build a business (even with encapsulation) doing commercial work for 5-15 cents a square. I know plenty of guys are advocating that strategy and claiming 2,000-3,000 a square feet per hour etc, BUT reality is a bit different. Sure you can do 2,000 + square feet an hour in large ballrooms, hallways etc. but how many commercial buildings are just huge open areas. Add in all the cubicles and smaller rooms and those great production rates drop fast. A cimex in and of itself will not make a sound commercial carpet cleaning operation. It's not a miracle worker with mysterious powers. It's a tool, a great one but not everything it is trumped up to be. Sometimes you have to extract a commercial account regardless of the size just because it's a trash pit. Sure you can maintain it with the cimex but if that first cleaning is contracted at the same 5-15 cents per square you have lost a bunch of cash on the front end. Who wants to have to to clean a place 4-5 times before you have recouped your losses on the front end ?

You can only cut your gross margin so thin before your credit line is the only thing keeping you in business.
 

joe harper

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Hoody said:
HARPER said:
As KEN ..stated soon you will be competing @ janitorial prices..!! GAME OVER...!!!
If you haven't noticed ..YET..? CINTAS is operating their carpet cleaning service as a
LOSS LEADER item...They will STEAM clean for .10 cents a sf. "Using a AREO-TECH" to
acquire a long term janitorial contract & uniform service.!!!!

This NOT a "DoomsDaY" post ......Just a "ReaLiTy ChEcK".... !gotcha!

Hmmmmmm.... I recall having this conversation with you about a year ago... hey look, its actually happening.

YES WE DID....."Hope you & lil DinK are doing OK..."
 

joe harper

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sam miller said:
Harper's right about managing costs one truck paid for is better then 3 with huge payments and employess anb business Insurance.

You can win big when things are rolling and lose big when they are not.

I have been cutting ad cost's the referral program is a good idea, I send out reminders every 6 month and a year and survive on referals I just dont offer to pay for referals yet.

Years ago we got involved with mercury business liability insurance in california a million dollar slip and fall policy was $350.00 per year its up to $650.00 per year now.

Still if anybody can beat that I would be intrested in finding out?

Managing chemical cost's labor costs is huge especially when gas is going up and now stabilizing and possibly going down a little soon.

Getting case discounts buying in bulk, using costco gas with 4 percent off amex. It all adds up then there's the do you show the cash or hide it a topic You shouldnt post about.

still getting to more and more on the Internet because the reviews helps I hate seeing SEO with bogus reviews.

I'm with Supermedia and they got #1 in Palmdale Lancaster Google search and Im #1 on thier site

my web page alone in lancaster sits around 3rd and its the reviews that pull me the most calls from new customers.

Asking customers for a google review for 10 percent discount isnt the worst thing You could do regardless of how big You are.

Sucessful people will find away. Down sizing isnt failure its managing costs.

Its what best suits your Company . It will all work out one way or the other Goodluck to everyone.

PS I just raised my rates again.

Clayton,

Nice to here from another DinOsauR... :lol:

Isn't it STRANGE...how all of old BULL'S...are still KicKinG... :lol:

SOME of us can speak from experiance ...without GooGlEinG an answer... !gotcha!
 

XTREME1

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I found cutting all debt was good. We own everything as of now, just paid off even the lowest 1% because that was my goal but now we have to make money and accumuate it. We are busy now but I see a slow down soon. I give estimates(I didn't before because we didn't advertise) so big jobs are faslling to the wayside for $100. I will let you know in 3 months but people criticize me on watching my money and everyone in my area who didn't is out of business
 

XTREME1

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Brian were you the one who moved the thread and moved it back? I clearly remember Harper agreeing don't move his threads to your room?
 

joe harper

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Dave Yoakum said:
HARPER said:
Ps..This ..RACE to the top of google..Will also become a MUTE POINT...
Just as ....You had to be a CRI approved,IIRC*certified,Green Clean,& BBB membership..!
As the HEAVY advertising companies go BroKe getting to the #1 page on GOOGLE...The
next..latest>>greatest>> marketing Ideas are lurking around the corner.... !

We are a "SERVICE INDUSTRY"...1st and foremost.."Always have been.!"
LET YOUR WORK SPEAK FOR ITS-SELF..!!!!!! Word of mouth IS still the best advertising.

This has been a moment ...
with a DInoSaUR..

So, The Internet is just a passing phase and word of mouth would not possibly ever happen on electronic media.

Right?

Well at least you are right about the dinosaur part.

(I thought they were extinct.)


What has become EXTINCT...is common sense... :idea:
I really would rather NOT...argue with you DAVE...Because it is EmBaRRassInG to see
28 years in your profile. :oops: And all you can do is PrOmOtE your precious INTERNET.:roll:

Certainly you have accomplished something in your 28 years...Other than to "mArkEt" your
company back into the "ICE AGE"... :shock: Can you please add to the discussion..other
than to promote your myfreeadvice.kum... :?:

You remind me of my uncle BIll..When we had family outings "in the south"...the MEN
would all sit at one table after dinner..! After about 5 Min's of Uncle Bill's "BS"...my
grand father would ask him to go sit with the women.... :oops:
 

XTREME1

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Harper you are a dinosaur. See the internet seems to get dave all the new customers he lost serving them in a hackish way. Same way the Brian needs to sell his subcontractors out. Thay can not seem to grasp a Boyle, harper, snow type business. All unique but providing a level of service that people do not have to search for ANOTHER cleaner next year
 

XTREME1

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who was it then? Because I went to post and it was in the MMM room and moved back
 

juniorc82

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Thanks for the update harper..... So what direction are you going with this wrant? Are you saying we should all lay down and accept our demise under cintas lol? I dont know about you guys but business has been going pretty well for me. Granted I understand an owner op with pt helpers has a differant cost burden than a straight employee ran operation. But I gotta ask you Harper if things are as bad as you say why did it take you a year behind the desk to really notice?If I got off the truck I would definately be out in the field regularly doing sales activity trying to grow the business. I agree with many of the points you bring up , I just refuse to accept that we are all doomed and success for the small cleaning firm is lost.
 
C

cucu

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Right now im in a fight between cleaning high end jobs and / or apartments
As my wife and i talked today about the biz i found i do not want to give up the apts to just do houses
i need the rat nastys not just for the money but for the problems they bring . they bring the (some say) uncleanable ,unrepairable, and things you just dont find in nice homes.
So i do both. In the high end, they get the best service... and the apartments...they get the best service for their needs
 

joe harper

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I started this thread to ...SHARE that I had been out of contact..with the severity
of the CRUNCH that this economy is having on our industry... :cry:

It may be HARD for some to believe...? But I am very AWARE of all marketing aspects of
this BIZ.. :!:

At the risk of being arrogant....I don't have to work... :shock:
My involvement in this board should SCREAM that...because a working man CANNOT be
on a BB as much as I am.. :idea:

I kept this business for my son..! I have been very TOUGH on him..! "And in the SAME
breath..SPOILED him ROTTON." I am a numbers GUY...! If the numbers aren't there...
All the good Intention & hard work in the world are FUTAL...!

I by NO MEANS have all the answers...BUT...I am an AUTHORITY on what NOT to do.!

The reason ..I don't have to work is..I have made a respectable living..BUYING businesses
that did NOT watch the numbers... !gotcha! I am NOT interested in buying anymore failing
Cleaning companies... :cry:

The days of a "small business"..leveraging their DEBT..ARE OVER....!!!! "CASH is KING..!"
We all had better ...tighten our belts and become fiscally responsible... :idea:

It is SICKENING...what failed CC companies & equipment can be purchased at this time...!
You can buy ENTIRE companies..for less than an average Yellow Page ad would have
cost 5 years ago... :oops:

1st law of business acquisition: TAKE WHAT THEY WILL GIVE TO GET OUT...AND...GIVE
WHAT THEY WILL TAKE TO GET IN.... !gotcha!
 

joe harper

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junior c82 said:
Thanks for the update harper..... So what direction are you going with this wrant? Are you saying we should all lay down and accept our demise under cintas lolI dont know about you guys but business has been going pretty well for me. Granted I understand an owner op with pt helpers has a different cost burden than a straight employee ran operation. But I gotta ask you Harper if things are as bad as you say why did it take you a year behind the desk to really notice?If I got off the truck I would definitely be out in the field regularly doing sales activity trying to grow the business. I agree with many of the points you bring up , I just refuse to accept that we are all doomed and success for the small cleaning firm is lost.

Junior,
I haven't been on a truck for 15 years.."Except when there was an emergency"

I turned the entire company to my son for a year...!!!
Kind of a "BABTISM BY FIRE".. !gotcha!

I let him operate the BIZ..his way... :idea:
He did well.However he PISSED AWAY about 150K..in the meantime "Personal Expense":shock:

I am back...to clean-up the MESS..... shiteatinggrin

While many will see my actions as a fool hearted experiment....I WILL DISAGREE.. :idea:
Many family's transfer wealth at their time of death..I DISAGREE TOTALLY......!

I believe you should constantly RATCHET-UP the responsibility..By relinquishing AUTHORITY !


"It is how WE ...DinOsAuR'S...roll..!".... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

ps. I can ASSURE you he will NOT make the same mistakes...When I am GONE... :mrgreen:


pss Remember ...I am a #''s guy.. :idea: "I knew all along where this experiment would end up."
I just had to WAIT for him to say UNCLE...! It was a HUmBleInG exPerIanCe..for him.. !gotcha!
 
S

sam miller

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Good for You Harper and Your Son. Trial by Fire! Its funny how kids think were Idiots until thier pants are on fire. at least he said uncle.

About cash I'm selling a used rx20 at a local shop a competitor walks in and says I want it can I pay $500.00 down and make payments.

Really? I paid $1500.00 for it used and want a grand to put towards a 360i but why not put it in a card and make payments to your bank? do I look like the bank?

I dont need to sell it I just dont like it!
 

Brian R

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I'm not sure if it was because of a scary economy or just a bit more of Harper like maturity. :shock:
But I put more money in the bank this last year then I ever did before.

Not because I did sooo well, but because I felt it was the time to build the bank account instead of the business. Just rolled for a while. Didn't hurt the business any while I was at it.

I always was the one who "wanted to take over the world" wanted my business to be huge etc. I still want that....but as Harper said.....cash is king.

I'll let it grow some.



Edit: Harper like maturity = Getting older. :lol:
 

Brian R

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Bundy said:
Harper you are a dinosaur. See the internet seems to get dave all the new customers he lost serving them in a hackish way. Same way the Brian needs to sell his subcontractors out. Thay can not seem to grasp a Boyle, harper, snow type business. All unique but providing a level of service that people do not have to search for ANOTHER cleaner next year


Wow, I would be surprised if you new anything about any of those businesses to judge one way or the other. It's just all hand jive to you.
For the record, customer service is number 1....always. Not impressing other carpet cleaners etc.
You act like the people who clean for me are from another planet or something compared to the guys who clean for Snow etc.
Guys slinging wands....some have great attitudes and cleaning ability, the others are unemployed.



I'm not sure who moved the thread or if or why......or why it's such a big deal to you.

Remember the bullies in school that had nothing to complain about so they made crap up that didn't make any sense?
I'm sure you don't
 

Greg Cole

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HARPER said:
As many of you know, I have been out of the day to day operations of our company
for 1 year. Here are some of my observation...since returning in march of this year.
It is UGLY out there...!!!!!!!

We have just ended our major cleaning season.While the numbers are basically the same.
Volume was down considerably. I have had 60 days to access the decline. here are a few
of my observations. These are a few of the fundamental changes I have seen.

First off...I can attribute some of the decline to "poor management" and the shying
away of proven procedures. Certainly the economy is a large factor...we are high end
cleaners & many of our clients are in foreclosure. Most are looking down the barrel of
a "short sale".

We made the decision to RAISE our prices...rather than compete with other companies
cutting their price trying to survive. As a higher end cleaner..it is expected to loose a
certain percentage of clients every year to divorce and or relocation,economy ect...

We have also found that some of our previous clients...have been forced to suffer
through a inferior service because of budgetary restraints. While this is unfortunate...
it does allow this client to experience the "bottom-feeding bait & switch experience"..!

Times are hard here for the upper middle class. They are seeking lower prices ...because
they are loosing their homes and do not see the value in protecting their investment anymore.
I have made the decision to downsize...to weather this storm..! Lowering prices is a bad
idea in my market.

The attrition rate has been brutal for many good cleaners in the area. Businesses are
dropping like flies! In the past year, my son chose to blow-off small jobs. This was a poor decision. You should NEVER prejudge a sale.! I have noticed that our seniors have been
hit the hardest. So I have decided to drop our minimum charge 20% for them.

Over the last 30 days this has proven to be a profitable decision. The volume of work has increased substantially. Many of these jobs are in small mobile home parks...lots of referrals
while we are in the parks...increase the bottom line without additional travel !

As I have stated previously...commercial work is at ridiculously low prices. We have chosen
to remove ourselves from the market."We cannot be competitive with the "En-CraPPinG" fad.

We will choose our battles."We will STILL be around for the RESTORATION of these carpets in 1 year" I would caution the new guys entering the industry..."If you choose to compete
in the commercial WAR that is in progress...! YOU WILL LOSE...their are companies cleaning
at .05 cents a square foot.."SAD"..!

I know this is a Looooog post...HOWEVER, it could spawn some helpful discussion..????

Sorry buddy, didn't mean to make things so hard on you..... Glad to hear you are back in the day to day. Here's hoping things improve for you.
 

Giorgio

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wow!!!

Thanks for the interesting post Harper. There's a lot of thought provoking stuff here.

for instance, i find it interesting that two of the most notorious low price cleaners ain't complaining. (Ken & Cole). Also, Cintas is firing up XT machines at .10 s/f.

it's almost like a pattern is starting to develop. low prices, high volume, lots of advertising (i'm guessing). Except Cantis, they probably utilizes outside sales Reps.

Anyone ever utilize outside sales reps in their carpet cleaning business?
 

XTREME1

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Brian,

The reason the moving things and the edits bother me is I can no longer trust that what the person wrote is actually what they wrote. That is a reason I have sginificantly slowed my reading on this forum. If you don't understand, sorry.
You have given enough information about your company for us to know. Sure you sold out your subs. You use to use them until you learned you could clean for more suckers with a towel and stopped sending them any business. Those people may have been trick into depending on you for buisiness and you sold them out just like that
 

joe harper

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George III said:
wow!!!

Thanks for the interesting post Harper. There's a lot of thought provoking stuff here.

for instance, i find it interesting that two of the most notorious low price cleaners ain't complaining. (Ken & Cole). Also, Cintas is firing up XT machines at .10 s/f.

it's almost like a pattern is starting to develop. low prices, high volume, lots of advertising (i'm guessing). Except Cantis, they probably utilizes outside sales Reps.

Anyone ever utilize outside sales reps in their carpet cleaning business?

I have talked to a couple of members that read the thread as...biz is bad & we are
hurting...! That is not the case ...the numbers are actually better every year...!

Here is an Analogy using a different type of business..Restaurant's

HARPER'S.....Fine dining...great wine selection...Chef in the kitchen "PRIVATE DINING"

HAGOPAIN....Great food...good service...reasonable prices.."OUTBACK"

PRO CARPET...Good food...limited service...great pricing...high volume "GOLDEN CORAL"

Ps This analogy is NOT to infer that HARPER'S is a better company than either of the
companies mentioned... :!: In Fact both of these companies...generate far more revenue
than we do... !gotcha! WE ARE ALL OFFERING THE SAME GENERAL SERVICE & PRODUCT
"Just at different point's." Different business models create OPTION'S for the general public
to patronize.... :idea:

I try to "forward think" in this business and look at specific criteria ...such as market
share & customer retention. I was concerned... that our volume of "small job's" did
not show the growth we have seen in past years.!

Many assume that "working less & making more money is the HOLY GRAIL"...! This
is a goal to attain...However...if you are a growing business...you should always
look to increase your "ACTIVE" base..!

Any market will always dictate PRICE...! Our industry has always had 3 tiers of pricing..!
It is reflected on this board..! As you say...Our biz modle is different than Ken's or Greg's.

Our biz is ...able to charge higher prices because we target the client that is willing to
pay more for some personal frills..! Ken.. Offers basically the same thing...Newer equipment
uniformed clean-cut "EMPLOYEES"....great customer service...! Ken is able to get his product
to market at a MUCH lower cost than ME...because He does a high VOLUME biz...!!!

Greg operates his company in the MOST competitive market of all...He commits a HUGE
amount of revenue towards his marketing. He targets the customer that is looking for "affordable" cleaning.
At his base price point he HAS to use sub-contractors....!
Most of the FRILLS that we offer are not present in his final product.."Which is Fine"
 

Ken Snow

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HARPER said:
George III said:
wow!!!

Thanks for the interesting post Harper. There's a lot of thought provoking stuff here.

for instance, i find it interesting that two of the most notorious low price cleaners ain't complaining. (Ken & Cole). Also, Cintas is firing up XT machines at .10 s/f.

it's almost like a pattern is starting to develop. low prices, high volume, lots of advertising (i'm guessing). Except Cantis, they probably utilizes outside sales Reps.

Anyone ever utilize outside sales reps in their carpet cleaning business?

I have talked to a couple of members that read the thread as...biz is bad & we are
hurting...! That is not the case ...the numbers are actually better every year...!

Here is an Analogy using a different type of business..Restaurant's

HARPER'S.....Fine dining...great wine selection...Chef in the kitchen "PRIVATE DINING"

HAGOPAIN....Great food...good service...reasonable prices.."OUTBACK"

PRO CARPET...Good food...limited service...great pricing...high volume "GOLDEN CORAL"

Ps This analogy is NOT to infer that HARPER'S is a better company than either of the
companies mentioned... :!: In Fact both of these companies...generate far more revenue
than we do... !gotcha! WE ARE ALL OFFERING THE SAME GENERAL SERVICE & PRODUCT
"Just at different point's." Different business models create OPTION'S for the general public
to patronize.... :idea:

I try to "forward think" in this business and look at specific criteria ...such as market
share & customer retention. I was concerned... that our volume of "small job's" did
not show the growth we have seen in past years.!

Many assume that "working less & making more money is the HOLY GRAIL"...! This
is a goal to attain...However...if you are a growing business...you should always
look to increase your "ACTIVE" base..!

Any market will always dictate PRICE...! Our industry has always had 3 tiers of pricing..!
It is reflected on this board..! As you say...Our biz modle is different than Ken's or Greg's.

Our biz is ...able to charge higher prices because we target the client that is willing to
pay more for some personal frills..! Ken.. Offers basically the same thing...Newer equipment
uniformed clean-cut "EMPLOYEES"....great customer service...! Ken is able to get his product
to market at a MUCH lower cost than ME...because He does a high VOLUME biz...!!!

Greg operates his company in the MOST competitive market of all...He commits a HUGE
amount of revenue towards his marketing. He targets the customer that is looking for "affordable" cleaning.
At his base price point he HAS to use sub-contractors....!
Most of the FRILLS that we offer are not present in his final product.."Which is Fine"

Post of the year- no insults, no "my shlong is bigger than yours", just straight forward analysis and opinion without judgement or mud slinging. Thanks Joe for showcasing class and maturity.

Ken
 

joe harper

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"I am in my UnDerWaRe.."

Can we talk about my "sChlongL...NOW....?

jus kiddin... :mrgreen:

Thanx "KOJ"... :lol:
 

Brian R

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Harp...I use subs because it's easier....not because it's more or less expensive.
You've got a nice thread going here but allow me to participate in the hijacking below then I'll stop.



Bundy said:
Brian,

The reason the moving things and the edits bother me is I can no longer trust that what the person wrote is actually what they wrote. That is a reason I have sginificantly slowed my reading on this forum. If you don't understand, sorry.
You have given enough information about your company for us to know. Sure you sold out your subs. You use to use them until you learned you could clean for more suckers with a towel and stopped sending them any business. Those people may have been trick into depending on you for buisiness and you sold them out just like that

No mod that I know of is editing posts without the original posters knowledge...sometimes even permission. I would image a banning would be in order if such a thing were to happen.

I don't use the subs here because I couldn't find quality ones that were consistent. The one crew I did have ended up stealing from me big time. I caught them and that was the end of the relationship.
I still use a sub for tile cleaning. He and I are friends. He doesn't like carpet cleaning because he really knows his tile cleaning and likes that.
Buying a machine to clean killed two birds. I could handle any carpet jobs coming through and It gave me a source of exercise. I've really enjoyed doing a job here and there.

The Sac area still uses subs...my #1 sub is running the thing.......so remember when doing research to make sure you get your facts straight.
 

Brian R

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Ken Snow said:
HARPER said:
[quote="George III":385zza9k]wow!!!

Thanks for the interesting post Harper. There's a lot of thought provoking stuff here.

for instance, i find it interesting that two of the most notorious low price cleaners ain't complaining. (Ken & Cole). Also, Cintas is firing up XT machines at .10 s/f.

it's almost like a pattern is starting to develop. low prices, high volume, lots of advertising (i'm guessing). Except Cantis, they probably utilizes outside sales Reps.

Anyone ever utilize outside sales reps in their carpet cleaning business?

I have talked to a couple of members that read the thread as...biz is bad & we are
hurting...! That is not the case ...the numbers are actually better every year...!

Here is an Analogy using a different type of business..Restaurant's

HARPER'S.....Fine dining...great wine selection...Chef in the kitchen "PRIVATE DINING"

HAGOPAIN....Great food...good service...reasonable prices.."OUTBACK"

PRO CARPET...Good food...limited service...great pricing...high volume "GOLDEN CORAL"

Ps This analogy is NOT to infer that HARPER'S is a better company than either of the
companies mentioned... :!: In Fact both of these companies...generate far more revenue
than we do... !gotcha! WE ARE ALL OFFERING THE SAME GENERAL SERVICE & PRODUCT
"Just at different point's." Different business models create OPTION'S for the general public
to patronize.... :idea:

I try to "forward think" in this business and look at specific criteria ...such as market
share & customer retention. I was concerned... that our volume of "small job's" did
not show the growth we have seen in past years.!

Many assume that "working less & making more money is the HOLY GRAIL"...! This
is a goal to attain...However...if you are a growing business...you should always
look to increase your "ACTIVE" base..!

Any market will always dictate PRICE...! Our industry has always had 3 tiers of pricing..!
It is reflected on this board..! As you say...Our biz modle is different than Ken's or Greg's.

Our biz is ...able to charge higher prices because we target the client that is willing to
pay more for some personal frills..! Ken.. Offers basically the same thing...Newer equipment
uniformed clean-cut "EMPLOYEES"....great customer service...! Ken is able to get his product
to market at a MUCH lower cost than ME...because He does a high VOLUME biz...!!!

Greg operates his company in the MOST competitive market of all...He commits a HUGE
amount of revenue towards his marketing. He targets the customer that is looking for "affordable" cleaning.
At his base price point he HAS to use sub-contractors....!
Most of the FRILLS that we offer are not present in his final product.."Which is Fine"

Post of the year- no insults, no "my shlong is bigger than yours", just straight forward analysis and opinion without judgement or mud slinging. Thanks Joe for showcasing class and maturity.

Ken[/quote:385zza9k]


For once. :mrgreen:
 

joe harper

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Brian,

I told your dAddY..jUgHeaD....what a good lil boy you have been on this thread... :shock:

Then I SLAMMED my "thumb" with a HAMMER immediately..."To ease the PAIN"... :mrgreen:
 

Brian R

Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2008
Messages
19,945
Location
Little Elm, TX
Name
Brian Robison
Harper...right is right....no speculating necessary.

I agree with what you said about you, Ken and Greg. I've always agreed with that.

I'm nowhere near that level but I will say that I try to accomplish the happy mediums with my company.

Somewhere between reasonable prices with quality work and high volume.....still working on the high volume part.

I do try to run all 3 systems....high end when wanted, mid level when needed and a lower end when we "have to" EI: You get what you pay for.

If you limit your bases to 1st, 2nd and 3rd there is not a lot of room for a home run....I'm working on it.

I hope to one day be included in your list of types. somewhat amus
 

bob vawter

Grassy Knoller
Joined
Sep 15, 2007
Messages
43,983
Location
La La Land
Name
bob vawter
i hit a homerun the day i sold my business........ shiteatinggrin


ohh....i mentioned this thread to the old women over lunch today..........

and she sez to me:
most of the younger kids coming into the business are dumb....NO...
she sED LAZY first...then dumb!
i can attest to this every time i run ads on Ebay or Craigslist....some of you boys need to wear protective headgear....... :lol:
there ARE a lot of floor surfaces OUT there guys......
if yor not bright enough to make it in THIS field......
maybe you should be a painter or run a BB somewhurr.........

all in all...
this bibical proportioned thinning of the herd is good for the rest of ya's.............




except the ones building CC MACHINES! :evil:
 

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