over 600 rugs now

[Ken Snow]

Still keep that phrase Greg- our retail bus is down over 5 mill now from its heydays and much of that cost is still fixed.

 

[rhyde]

Still keep that phrase Greg- our retail bus is down over 5 mill now from its heydays and much of that cost is still fixed.

the bad economy of the 1930's was a drving force behind many wash plants some remained small in a basement or garage.

What are the top five largest wash plants in the country ...?

Hagopian, rug wash, who else?

 

[Desk Jockey]

http://www.woodardcleaning.com/
Woodard's is the biggest one near us, they are in St Louis. Not sure how they compare in size.

 

[Ken Snow]

Long Island Rug Cleaners use to be huge. Sadly when I visited thema few years ago they seemed a fragment of the size.

 

[tmdry]

I visited Dry Concepts a year or so ago, it looked pretty huge to me.

http://www.dryconcepts.com

 

[DavidVB]

Dry Concepts built a 12 truck operation on dry cleaning carpet. I doubt that they or Ken Snow could possibly care less how others define quality.

 

[Ken Snow]

I'm sure like us, they care about their customers. They are the only one's who count :-)

 

[Ken Snow]

Some of the rugs that came in the end of last week in our dry room today.

 

[rhyde]

Dry Concepts built a 12 truck operation on dry cleaning carpet. I doubt that they or Ken Snow could possibly care less how others define quality.

Bet your wrong,

I bet they care a great deal about customer perceptions and how customers and prospective ones define their business. i'll even bet Hagopians spends a lot of cold hard cash on it !

 

[Ken Snow]

you be right Randy

 

[Harry Myers]

I couldnt sleep at night if I did not hold up to my quality status. I am the one who needs to care about quality. Yes obviously the producers who put out (Quantity) are not producing (quality).

 

[DavidVB]

My bad. I assumed that it would be clear that the opinions that Dry Concepts or Ken Snow would be disinterested in were those on this or any board who try to ridicule their work. They obviously show great interest in their customers.

How can anyone who is not producing quantity be so sure that a quantity of quality is impossible?

Ken, you didn't post how many rugs you had come in this week just to stir these guys up did you?
I doubt seeing the same old critics show up surprised you.

 

[Harry Myers]

David Ken #s or money does not bother me . Lets get that straight since you are so concerned. No it is like Mc Donalds they produce millions of burgers people love them. But in actuality they really are not good . Production lacks quality simple fact !

 

[DavidVB]

Harry,

What are you talking about? I didn't say you were concerned about Ken's numbers or money. I never even said you are bothered. I simply asked how someone who doesn't do large volume can know whether quantity and quality is possible or not. Why is it when someone disagrees with you guys you resort to all the red herrings?

You say its impossible because of the way McDonalds sells hamburgers. McDonalds chooses to sell low quality for cheap. How does that prove that quantity and quality are mutually exclusive in all products and services?

I like how some get a kick out of insulting other peoples work. I kind of think though that Ken enjoys playing with you guys and I'm just wandering through his sandbox. They are all yours Ken. Have fun. You sure don't need me to speak up for you.

 

[Harry Myers]

Have fun in Kens Sandbox then ok.

 

[rhyde]

I don’t have problems with what Ken’s company does, as I recall they charge a reasonable price beyond that Hagopians is a well run profitable business and i'm sure not going to clean those 700 + rugs by hand!

The statement that a 5 minute Moore wash gets rugs as clean as a good hand wash was where I took issue…. I tossed out the put up or shut up In a post long ago. I offered to fly out and we would pull a couple rugs and see how clean they are and fully document it for this board ..if I’m wrong, I’m wrong and all here will know it, the offer still stands as of yet no takers ! The issue again isn’t a hatred of Hagopians, Ken or any other wash plant, it’s about being honest about cleaning performance you know i spent 8 years in a Moore wash plant ..right?

I’m a little perplexed here Dave, I’ve seen pictures of your wash operation do you not soak rugs out on the wash floor or do you shampoo rugs and rinse them in the centrifuge ? The people that get this are the ones that pit/hand wash like Harry Meyers, Ron koller

 

[The Great Oz]

It is possible to approximate the quality of cleaning results from a Moore Roll-a-jet with a hand wash procedure, but it will take a lot of time and effort.

That's fine if it fits your business profile, but don't confuse effort with results.

 

[rhyde]

it's not just about automation it's an issue of cleaning chemistry there's a physical limit to the amount of soil you can remove in a given time and an average solid rug can't be done in 5 minutes

Does this mean we can do the test at your shop Bryan we pull two rugs from your finished bin and work them over If i'm wrong, i'm wrong?

 

[Ryan]

Who makes the most money cleaning rugs? Isn't that whats it all about after all?

 

[Ken Snow]

Oyvey again

 

[Mikey P]

Who makes the most money cleaning rugs? Isn't that whats it all about after all?

It is for some Ryan.


It's the " Rug Fags" who care more about massaging a rug back to it's virgin status who care about workmanship rather than making money banging 30 rugs out an hour..





nttiatwwt...

 

[XTREME1]

From what I understand, if the results do not meet the quality control standards of Hagopian they continue to rewash until they do. So the 5 minute process is not accurate. I have alot of customers who get there rugs cleaned yearly and alot of the time that is not needed and I am sure that is the bulk of hagopians business.

 

[Ken Snow]

you are exactly right Greg- and remember we have a 2 person team on the prewash side working on the rugs which is the majority of time.

 

[DavidVB]

We soak out the rugs, clean both sides and rinse with squeegees and rollers in the pit. Depending on what we see come out of the centrifuge, we do it again if needed.

But I'm not talking about what we do. My comment was about what they do at Dry Concepts. After running the rugs through the duster, they do everything I do in the pit. An advantage they have is they have a 2 inch hose to flood with. They put that high flow under the rugs and squeegee off the top until the water runs clean. There is no waiting for the rugs to fill up with water so it goes pretty quick. Then they run the rugs through the full wash cycle of the Moore. I found their process to be very thorough and do to having the set up they do, which cost them a ton to set up, very efficient.

A quantity of quality.

 

[Ken Snow]

I believe most large rug plants have this same set up with the large flood hose -we do too.

 

[rhyde]

Oyvey again

LOL..yep Sorry Ken, I tried to change the subject.

It's the " Rug Fags" who care more about massaging a rug back to it's virgin status who care about workmanship rather than making money banging 30 rugs out an hour..

The limitations of hand washing are fairly obvious volume, time, labor, risk (more water possibility of more problems) costs I’ve acknowledged that in previous posts in fact i think I've been very candid about it. Yet, some have figured out how to do both make money and do good washing... Talisman, Textival, RH Koller, maybe your buddy at …Artisan? I bet Ken & Bryan can do way more than 30 rugs an hour.....every systems has it's down side & limitations Perhaps Ken and Brian could give input on the limitations of their systems ?

It’s entertaining to me, there’s honest talk about Vortex and all manner of products on this board but not this subject.

From what I understand, if the results do not meet the quality control standards of Hagopian they continue to rewash until they do. So the 5 minute process is not accurate.

So then they can't get a rug clean in 5 minutes?

Here’s what I’m saying, IF you where to go to a large automated wash plant pull a couple clean ready to deliver rugs and dust them you will get a lot of dirt out of them and even more if they are re-washed. That unacceptable to most hand washers i know, thats not what they consider clean.

This isn’t a I hate Ken, Bryan or large wash business or an I’m jealous or I’m better than them post. It’s a lets have an honest discussion about the capabilities, advantages and limitations of wash systems.

 

[Mikey P]

I"m all for it Randy.


and to get the subject going.. :shock:

How many times would you have to run a heavily soiled 9x12 Chinese through the Hagopian process before it met Hyde like standards of clean?


or is that even possible with a mechanical cleaning?


ah, the age old question..

"How clean is clean?"

 

[Ken Snow]

An average does not mean every rug. many rugs like carpet in a home take much less time than a heavily soiled rug. A heavily soiled 9 X 12 chinese may take 3 times that long just on the prewash floor, then still only 90 seconds or so to feed all the way into the Moore (a seond time if needed). A very lightly soiled thinner 2 x 3 rug may take only a minute or 2 on the floor then less than 30 seconds to go into the Moore. or it can be fed right into the machine it can do all the work.

On a wash day more than 200 rugs can be washed and hung by the 3 person team (third man is on the hanging side and the rug feeds right to him on the belted table right out of the Moore).

It's all good guys :-)

 

[The Great Oz]

Randy,
Having any piece of equipment doesn't make you a quality cleaner. Are there limitations to the system? Sure. A good percentage of rugs get some hand-work prior to the washer, some are rejected by the QC before being dried and some are rejected by the QC after they're dry. We also have two portable pits and a large tack-out floor for rugs that can't be immersed without damage. We'll also dry some rugs laid flat if we're concerned about hanging.

I've been to lots of wet floor/pit plants that have a compression wringer or spin extractor. When they're finished cleaning the rug looks great, but there will be nasty looking water coming out of the rug as it goes through the extraction process. Those that don't have a compression wringer or spin extractor have no way of knowing how much they leave behind.

I would guess that you could take a random rug we were finished with and get some more soil out of it. I would also guess that I could take random rug that you were finished with and get more soil out of it. What's reasonable?

At least you won't see dirt coming out of a rug as it goes through our wringer.

 

[Ron K]

"How clean is clean?"

When a rug is grinned open do you see clean warp and weft threads.

Also a 2" hose doesn't necessarily better you have to empty the vessel inorder to fill it up.