Per Room, Per SQ?

[ruff]

and I hate that saying.." you get what you pay for "......all I have seen come out of it was some one put an extra shinny bolt on something....called it better... and jacked the price up....

Jim, in that specific case they did not get what they paid for. They got duped. Taken advantage of. Bamboozled. And so forth.
I know that you give excellent service, but Billy is right, usually (not always) you do get what you pay for. It seems like in your company's case, they got more than what they paid for. That is a good deal for them.

However, you are not the norm.



Be quiet Marty. Sit. I've seen Jimmy naked KMA!

 

[ruff]

Ofer are you saying people that it must be a good price for great service?

Has the economy changed people so much that they are no longer willing to pay more for great service?

I've seen Jimmy naked

Until I know if you're joking or serious, I'll have to duck this question.

That, however, may be due to my lack of self confidence and or self esteem and or difficult childhood (I get confused between all of these.)

Send me a word through the grapevine.

Yes. People are willing to pay high price for great service. At least in my, far flung, neck of the woods.

 

[Billy]

I thought I would add to this again to clarify we have not always been a higher price company but in fact we was a very low-priced company. I never want to forget where we started & the lessons along the way. One thing we are still proud of is we still today have 3 of our early clients using us that originally paid us $39.95 for 2 rooms & a hall. This year one of those clients has used us twice already with an average of $1200.00 on each job charged at today's sq' or L' .

This particular client has stayed with us thru every change & has never once asked for any type of special price although if they needed us to for financial reasons, we would do theirs for FREE.

This loyalty & trust means more to me than sq', room pricing, profit etc...etc..... We get this from many of our clients not necessarily because we are the best or most knowledgeable etc...but mainly because the trust & respect we build with them IMO.

So as business owners we all have a few things in common, we like to do things our way or at least try to & most of us aren't good followers.

 

[Able 1]

did 2 in home estimate yesterday
one had 1250 sq ft empty 5 rm and hall
other had 6 rm 1230 sq ft empty


50 or 60 a room ya may come out ok
but ya know lets say its a 300 dollar job prob join to take me 2.5 to 3 hrs to do this

lets say joe blow does it for 200 and take him 1.5 or 2 hrs to do the same job
who does the better job?

thats the big picture in my mind

How about doing that $300 job in 1.5 to 1.75 hours... That's what I shoot for.

 

[mcatt]

$200 per hr with 2man crew is what I shoot for. Sometimes get it, sometimes not. Of solo I can make a little less of course. We are by the area as it's just easier to give a good phone estimate.

 

[Jim Nelson]

did 2 in home estimate yesterday
one had 1250 sq ft empty 5 rm and hall
other had 6 rm 1230 sq ft empty


50 or 60 a room ya may come out ok
but ya know lets say its a 300 dollar job prob join to take me 2.5 to 3 hrs to do this

lets say joe blow does it for 200 and take him 1.5 or 2 hrs to do the same job
who does the better job?

thats the big picture in my mind

How about doing that $300 job in 1.5 to 1.75 hours... That's what I shoot for.

This would take me 3.5 hours.

 

[floorguy]

I thought I would add to this again to clarify we have not always been a higher price company but in fact we was a very low-priced company. I never want to forget where we started & the lessons along the way. One thing we are still proud of is we still today have 3 of our early clients using us that originally paid us $39.95 for 2 rooms & a hall. This year one of those clients has used us twice already with an average of $1200.00 on each job charged at today's sq' or L' .

This particular client has stayed with us thru every change & has never once asked for any type of special price although if they needed us to for financial reasons, we would do theirs for FREE.

This loyalty & trust means more to me than sq', room pricing, profit etc...etc..... We get this from many of our clients not necessarily because we are the best or most knowledgeable etc...but mainly because the trust & respect we build with them IMO.

So as business owners we all have a few things in common, we like to do things our way or at least try to & most of us aren't good followers.

noooo shit

 

[Bob Savage]

I have been per area since I started ....the only thing I measure is commercial and tile...wouldn't have it any other way..........

How do you work it Jim?

Years ago I think I was per room 180-200 before an extra charge... Can't recall for sure. Might have been 220 sq.

But I felt odd charging the same price for a room flirting with the cap verses a traffic lane bedroom, 70sq.

We have always charged by the room/area.

Since the vast majority of work that we do is repeat, we already know how big the rooms/areas are.

For those new customers calling and wanting carpet/upholstery cleaning done, and it's usually a referral, we give them a room price, or piece of furniture price, based on what they tell us they have, with the stipulation that once we arrive and do our pre-inspection before cleaning, we confirm the price we had given them, or adjust it accordingly.

This has never failed us.

On commercial, just like Jim said, we always do an estimate and measure for correct size, what needs to be moved, and carpet condition.

Tile/grout cleaning needs an estimate based on condition, tile/stone type, and size of tile and grout lines.

 

[hogjowl]

The trouble with high priced claims by bulletin board posters is lack of accountability. How many claiming high price posters have been discredited over the years? I can think of several.

This is not to suggest that Billy is lying. I don't know Billy and have no reason to believe he would lie about his prices, except for the fact that so many have before him.

If Billy is really getting 85 cents a s.f. to clean carpet, then my hat is off to him. If he gets 85 cents a s.f. and does three jobs a week, then that takes a bit of the glitter off his approach.

However, at 85 cents a s.f., I could pay my bills with 3 jobs a week ... but it still would take more to build a future.

One thing I have noticed is that in just about every case, when you find an exceptional poster, you will also find an exception to the rule. It may be a Monther in law who bought the equipment and pays the bills or a Father with a yacht. There is normally something else in the mix ... because reality may be in the eye of the beholder but life is normally NOT that variable.

 

[Jim Martin]

The trouble with high priced claims by bulletin board posters is lack of accountability. How many claiming high price posters have been discredited over the years? I can think of several.

This is not to suggest that Billy is lying. I don't know Billy and have no reason to believe he would lie about his prices, except for the fact that so many have before him.

If Billy is really getting 85 cents a s.f. to clean carpet, then my hat is off to him. If he gets 85 cents a s.f. and does three jobs a week, then that takes a bit of the glitter off his approach.

However, at 85 cents a s.f., I could pay my bills with 3 jobs a week ... but it still would take more to build a future.

exactly.........long term you are shooting yourself in the foot....

 

[ruff]

The trouble with high priced claims by bulletin board posters is lack of accountability. How many claiming high price posters have been discredited over the years? I can think of several.

This is not to suggest that Billy is lying. I don't know Billy and have no reason to believe he would lie about his prices, except for the fact that so many have before him.

If Billy is really getting 85 cents a s.f. to clean carpet, then my hat is off to him. If he gets 85 cents a s.f. and does three jobs a week, then that takes a bit of the glitter off his approach.

However, at 85 cents a s.f., I could pay my bills with 3 jobs a week ... but it still would take more to build a future.

exactly.........long term you are shooting yourself in the foot....

You have no idea, how it is going to effect his business long term Jim.
None of you knows the exact circumstances of that specific job, yet so fast to pass judgement.

I assume that you two run your business the best that you can. And how you think is most likely to work best with your specific clients and market place.

Why don't you reciprocate. You have no idea how successful Billy is. Personally, my bet is that (to say it diplomatically) he's no less successful than you. He seems to know very well what works in his market and has given a lot of thought to how to run his business.

You may consider doing the same.

 

[Jim Martin]

You take things way to personal. I was only saying how I see it. I could care a less what Billy does or how he does it.....but IMO your main objective is to grow your company as large as you can... Don't Limit yourself. Think about long term. We all can be carpet cleaners for the rest of our lives....but that don't mean we will be able to clean carets forever .......



Sent from my iPhone

 

[ruff]

good advise.
O.K. I'll try to take it less personally eat yor heart out Werner

However, not everyone tries to grow their business as big as they can.
Some are very content to keep it at a certain size and manageability.

As they say: Different strokes for different folks.

Personally, knowing how particular you are about your work. I'll be interested (not joking here) how you'd do with employees going on their own.

 

[sam miller]

it goes back to.....WHERE YOU LIVE....

now up north where Mike Draper is, he may be able to get more...but along the wasatch front....Ogden to Provo...about 100 mi long stretch...

you would find under 5% of the people that would pay almost $300 to get half their house done let alone 2 rooms....it just aint gonna happen...

and i hope the guys on here from out here in utah chime in about that.....IT JUST ISNT IN THEIR DNA......and even though we have a bunch of people who have moved to Utah....they jump on the cheap bandwagon

now there are some people, places, businesses that dont mind paying a little more...hey i have a few i do...that have come right out and said i was more, then the guys trying to get in...but they went that route once before....

now that doesnt mean i can go out and add another 25% and think its hunky dorry


and i want to know what you would charge for that empty 1200 sqft house??? and how many and what rooms...lets compare...

I just never understand the statement, "I can't get higher prices in my area". When ever someone says that I usually ask them if anyone in their area drives a Cadillac or comparable luxury car. I then say what my mentor taught me everyone has their own value system so you have to find people that value what you have to offer at the price you truly believe you are worth.

One thing others routinely mistakenly think about us is we only have wealthy clients. This is far from the truth, we have many clients that live in the less affluent areas but still use us for their cleaning needs. we have managed to have actual positive growth during the bad economy mostly because of our loyal repeat clients along with our middle class clients. We are in more 3,000 & smaller houses than larger ones.

But we couldn't get higher prices if we didn't believe we could or if we didn't have USP's which make us different from most.




P.S. Even here in Mid-TN other cleaners say "I Can't get higher prices here" so in reality that statement can be used everywhere.

You say growth but then You say You like family time how many jobs per week how many days a week do You work? just wondering.
I've always per room priced when I started I was doing 2 for $30 5 for 80 and spray and steam open area 1300 jobs the first full year

about 110k killing myself working late when I went to the next year $40 2 room 5 room $90 1100 job for 119k then got to 50 min 5 room $100 after a couple years stayed there for 5 to 6 years avg 125k on about 900 stops a year.

2 years ago went to 25 per room 2 room min always. and went to 150k last year only 1/2 the year with a price increase.

last year went to 30 per rm added more service when price went up pre vac pre spot scrub steam move furn speed dry and rake
prob headed close to 200k this year. I wish I had raised my price's earlier but I to believed they'll ony pay this much. and with a bad economy was scared to raise rates.

I'm still way to low but heading in the right direction.

I probely would still be charging 20 per room if wasnt for this board. I got send Mike a residual check. fity cents dont spend it all at once I've seen Jimmy naked

I do 95% residential carpet 5% repair Uph tile ect. 6 days a week

 

[floorguy]

see your room pricing is right where mine is at...difference is my min is $100 (with exceptions)

and i think 25-40 a room is a fair charge.... depending where you live, and what your doing for it..

i am at 25...and in the process of trying to move to 30....

i ask them to have it ready and pre vac for me...

they get presrpay, and 360 cleaning (takes a little longer, but my shoulder wont wand that long...so its more for me then them)

and most of alll the spots out...anything that comes out with citrus, power gel, or POG...and ink in a few places...

reds and pet are more, and trying to transition to "adding" that...

in fact i missed one the other day.....had a red spot....should have said for $15?? $20?? i can get that out for you....but i didnt -sniff -sniff -sniff -sniff

it was a special i ran, sooooo i wasnt sure i wanted to try to squeeze it... but now after i see i missed it and its on my mind......you can bet ill ask next time

 

[Desk Jockey]

That, however, may be due to my lack of self confidence and or self esteem and or difficult childhood (I get confused between all of these.)

Now are you kidding? oh my...

Come on if Jimmy (two steps below the elephant man LIKE! ) can make it in this business anyone can. eat your heart out Werner

Just kidding James, please no don't send any dirty undergarments again! I've seen Jimmy naked

 

[Jim Martin]

good advise.
O.K. I'll try to take it less personally eat yor heart out Werner

However, not everyone tries to grow their business as big as they can.
Some are very content to keep it at a certain size and manageability.

As they say: Different strokes for different folks.

Personally, knowing how particular you are about your work. I'll be interested (not joking here) how you'd do with employees going on their own.

I have had 2 different employees....one really did not stay with me to long.....he had another business that he was running and he lost a few employees of his own and lost his main focus with what he was doing with me...the other one was working out really good...he was going out on his own...I had no real problems with him...every now and then he will step in and help if I have something really big and need the help...He wanted to go back to school and that was fine...I am all for education...

I have dealt with employees in other things that I have done in the past and have learned that the best approach is to always remember that...they are not you...they are not going to do things the way you do them...I have my ground rules of things that I expect...how they get there is up to them...its the out come that I concentrate on...

I want to get off this truck........I really should of been off of it a year ago...I want to focus on other things.....company wise and industry wise...I guess when I have really had enough I will get more aggressive with it....

 

[Jim Williams]

Remember, you don't have to be a dirt cheap by the room pricer. I have built a booming business starting at $40 a room and increasing to around $50 a room. Bonus rooms and combo rooms are 2 rooms. I have also found that in many cases it takes as long to do a small cluttered 12x12 room as it does to do a 18x18 wide open room. Seems like my hourly rate is pretty consistent regardless of room size. The way I look at it is if I have to spend an extra 30 minutes on a job it's no big deal because I didn't have to spend a 2 hour time slot doing an in home estimate when I could have had the wand to the carpet on another job.

 

[Luis Gomez]

Remember, you don't have to be a dirt cheap by the room pricer. I have built a booming business starting at $40 a room and increasing to around $50 a room. Bonus rooms and combo rooms are 2 rooms. I have also found that in many cases it takes as long to do a small cluttered 12x12 room as it does to do a 18x18 wide open room. Seems like my hourly rate is pretty consistent regardless of room size. The way I look at it is if I have to spend an extra 30 minutes on a job it's no big deal because I didn't have to spend a 2 hour time slot doing an in home estimate when I could have had the wand to the carpet on another job.

Jim I am with you on this one as I am also a per room pricer. But If you take your time and
go out to give in home estimates your ticket will also be higher (You tend to spend more time with
the customer and charge for it, you will sell upholstery,hard surface cleaning, pick up area rugs and sell protector), you are there as a salesperson. But it will probably evens out when you take in consideration all the time you will loose with price shoppers.
Luis

 

[Ron Lippold]

Just keep in mind that we do this for a living. By the room or sq ft you want to work harder or smarter. Sq ft will give you way more money, it also takes more smarts. Just saying!......

 

[ruff]

I agree with Ron.
Though whatever works for you guys is great.

I charge by the square foot.
I charge for the full size of the room, regardless of how many furniture. Takes much longer to clean less carpet in a room full of furniture. Move just small stuff (sofa, coffee table- not a big deal.)
If the place is empty- 10% discount. Yes, I clean more space, takes me much less time though.

The general idea is quite straight forward: If I work harder and longer- they pay more. If the work is easier and or take less time- They pay less.

No in home estimates (no time and or wish to do it.) All phone approximation. (Not that hard, I'm rarely more than 10 % off.) No up sells.

And though some farmers, say from Alabama, have doubts about truth and board posting.

So far, knock on wood (or said farmer's head), I'm doing all right. Honest LIKE!

 

[Billy]

The trouble with high priced claims by bulletin board posters is lack of accountability. How many claiming high price posters have been discredited over the years? I can think of several.

This is not to suggest that Billy is lying. I don't know Billy and have no reason to believe he would lie about his prices, except for the fact that so many have before him.

If Billy is really getting 85 cents a s.f. to clean carpet, then my hat is off to him. If he gets 85 cents a s.f. and does three jobs a week, then that takes a bit of the glitter off his approach.

However, at 85 cents a s.f., I could pay my bills with 3 jobs a week ... but it still would take more to build a future.

One thing I have noticed is that in just about every case, when you find an exceptional poster, you will also find an exception to the rule. It may be a Monther in law who bought the equipment and pays the bills or a Father with a yacht. There is normally something else in the mix ... because reality may be in the eye of the beholder but life is normally NOT that variable.

Marty we don't charge same rate on every job which is why I say we start at .69 psf wall to wall measurements with only add-on being protector at .29 psf.

As for accountability I give up on proving anything, I have posted a few invoices masking names in the past, My figures if checked have correct Math, people who do know us know we make what we say, I also freely admit my 5 yr old truck has very low hours & some here have seen the real hour meter. We also have been in this business for around 20 yrs now so we aren't new. We have never claimed to be the most successful or richest, or biggest we just say we get paid well & we do. We don't run specials either.

We also was able to somehow pay the BBT off in less than 5 yrs with no income besides BBFC. We have no family paying for things & no magic trust fund.

We do have a long-term plan so hopefully no worries there but in business who knows what the future will bring.

P.S. Nothing against anyone here but I have no reason or motivation to lie here since nothing here affects my life style, income etc.

[quote="Jim Martin":31iix7g2]

The trouble with high priced claims by bulletin board posters is lack of accountability. How many claiming high price posters have been discredited over the years? I can think of several.

This is not to suggest that Billy is lying. I don't know Billy and have no reason to believe he would lie about his prices, except for the fact that so many have before him.

If Billy is really getting 85 cents a s.f. to clean carpet, then my hat is off to him. If he gets 85 cents a s.f. and does three jobs a week, then that takes a bit of the glitter off his approach.

However, at 85 cents a s.f., I could pay my bills with 3 jobs a week ... but it still would take more to build a future.

exactly.........long term you are shooting yourself in the foot....

You have no idea, how it is going to effect his business long term Jim.
None of you knows the exact circumstances of that specific job, yet so fast to pass judgement.

I assume that you two run your business the best that you can. And how you think is most likely to work best with your specific clients and market place.

Why don't you reciprocate. You have no idea how successful Billy is. Personally, my bet is that (to say it diplomatically) he's no less successful than you. He seems to know very well what works in his market and has given a lot of thought to how to run his business.

You may consider doing the same.[/quote:31iix7g2]

You are correct I am more private with my overall finances than most so no one really knows this end of my business & yes we have & still do think about how things affect our market on a regular basis.

You say growth but then You say You like family time how many jobs per week how many days a week do You work? just wondering.

Yes I said we have had positive growth & yes I said we have always put family time ahead of work. Tonight after work we went to the Marina to take our boat to our favorite on water Restaurant for some family time including taking our dog with us since she likes the boat.

We don't have how many days we work every week set in stone but we prefer 3 -4 days max with no nights or weekends. We can do 1 - 4 jobs in a day max (1 - 2 normal) but as I have said & showed with invoices in the past our average jobs are higher. Today we actually worked on our job half of the day & made over $1500.00 cleaning & protecting/sealing Tile, a sofa, 2 full upholstered arm chairs & 2 seat/back only chairs. Client paid with Debit Card full amount before we even started cleaning. We also made a new friend today with this family.

 

[floorguy]

well there ya go.....

as its been said but missed by many.......

if it works for you (or who ever) and they/you are happy...isnt that what counts???

not to say we shouldnt try to help other cleaners.....

i know i have tried to get some to try higher flow or bigger hoses...but they always poo poo it.....oh well

 

[Billy]

well there ya go.....

as its been said but missed by many.......

if it works for you (or who ever) and they/you are happy...isnt that what counts???

not to say we shouldnt try to help other cleaners.....

i know i have tried to get some to try higher flow or bigger hoses...but they always poo poo it.....oh well

WELL SAID!!!!!

 

[Lee Stockwell]

For sure!

 

[Bob Savage]

did 2 in home estimate yesterday
one had 1250 sq ft empty 5 rm and hall
other had 6 rm 1230 sq ft empty


50 or 60 a room ya may come out ok
but ya know lets say its a 300 dollar job prob join to take me 2.5 to 3 hrs to do this

lets say joe blow does it for 200 and take him 1.5 or 2 hrs to do the same job
who does the better job?

thats the big picture in my mind

time is where you make your money...you want quantity...but you don't want your quality to suffer...got to find that balance...I am a firm believer that efficiently is the key to making money...

For us this all gets down to being able to run dual wands on just about every job that we do.

There are 2 of us cleaning at the same time in different parts of the house. I call this efficiency and making the best use of your time.

Then there's the psychological advantage of splitting every job in two. Each tech has only half of the job to perform, not the whole job.

well there ya go.....

as its been said but missed by many.......

if it works for you (or who ever) and they/you are happy...isnt that what counts???

not to say we shouldnt try to help other cleaners.....

i know i have tried to get some to try higher flow or bigger hoses...but they always poo poo it.....oh well

It doesn't matter if you price by the room, or by the square foot. What matters is that you are not giving your work away to just get "the job", while making sure you are completely thorough with your cleaning.

Charging by the square foot does not make you a better cleaner. Getting constant repeat and referral work without the need to advertise makes you a good, "sought after" cleaner.

We are one of the higher priced cleaners in this area, but those who call us rarely are price conscious. They are either repeat, or have been referred by another satisfied customer.

 

[Ron Werner]

My hearts doing just fine Richard who cares! (who made up the names for these smileys??)

I started by the room in 94, $20/rm, 10/hall, 2/st
There are still MANY cleaners at that rate on both sides of the 49th.

It is easier to quote by the room but the challenge I've found is separating yourself from the crowd when people are calling around for price. Customers see the job as a commodity if your price is the same as 3 other cleaners, so why should they call you? Or if yours happens to be higher than 3others, again why should they choose you? You have some splaining to do over the phone, which is what the other guys are doing as well.

Mike West got me to switch to sf. My job ticket did start to go up. Yes, it takes a little more time to do an in home estimate. I don't know how many times I gave a rough quote over the phone, went to the job, and in my mind I'm going "OH NO!! this is NOT what I was expecting!!" When I go to their house I can see the issues that concern them, I can point out issues that concern me, I can see where to park etc etc. I measure the rooms and print out a quote right there. I offer them 3 levels of cleaning, decreasing the effort as I decrease the price.
If I were to price per room, I'd be starting at $50/room-area probably working down to $30/area if I cleaned it like everyone else. But even THAT would be too high for some.

There are people that WILL pay more but it sure helps if you're in an area where there are ENOUGH of those people and many to choose from.
There's the old saying:
Serve the classes, you'll live with the masses
Serve the masses, you'll live with the classes.

Either way you price it, as someone said long ago, just make sure you're making a profit.
That said, I've cleaned 1200sf in 2hrs for $200, just a prespray-sebo-rinse staging clean. Carpet looked pretty good and was almost dry when I left but I knew I wasn't cleaning it as well as if I had 1 more hour. I still don't know how some of you can move that wand or uph tool so fast!! Well, I do know, I've done it, but I wasn't really as happy with it.

 

[Desk Jockey]

My hearts doing just fine Richard (who made up the names for these smileys??)

Sorry Ron, yes someone changed them, that wasn't my intent. Sorry!

 

[BLewis]

I've posted my response to this before but here goes again.
Started out sf but quickly changed to area pricing after realizing there wasn't enough of me to go around. Started out at $25 per room withs $25 set up fee. After one year changed to $50 first room then $25 per area after and dropped the set up fee. 2nd year $50 1st room then $30. Per area after. Then last year $50. first area then $35 per area after. This year decided not to go up the additional $5 cuz I thought I have maxed out(for now). Next year will probably go up additional $5. You know your probably not priced quite right when you make more per hour doing restaurants than residential. Oh and by the way not saying my way is the right way just responding to the question ask

 

[CleaningLA]

Let's see the difference between A per s.f cleaner to a per area cleaner.
Post pic or video
Of your shop or garage, rig, house , cars.
That way we know who's making the real$$$$$
Then will know who's really the high end cleaner.

And I love seeing other ppl rigs. Lol